Wine Education
Discussion
I spent two years at College studying wines for a couple of hours a week. I did my WSET Level 2 & 3. Not bad considering I wasn't yet 18 and legal. Eee lad, back in them days.....
http://www.wsetglobal.com/
I got pretty good at blind tastings, especially Bordeaux and Burgundy Reds. So good in fact that my Wine Master gave me sweet German wines to do for my dissertation (Git)!
I just found this video of Oz Clarke giving a talk on wines, it's just so good and well worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjppUsSGkdo
http://www.wsetglobal.com/
I got pretty good at blind tastings, especially Bordeaux and Burgundy Reds. So good in fact that my Wine Master gave me sweet German wines to do for my dissertation (Git)!
I just found this video of Oz Clarke giving a talk on wines, it's just so good and well worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjppUsSGkdo
Great video.
The bit on Sauternes was interesting. I absolutely adore Sauternes. I have accumulated a large stock in my cellar going back to 2001 and in some cases even earlier. It's getting to the point where I really need to crack on with drinking it
The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.
I'm off to France next week and will be making every effort to sample the local wines in every region I visit
The bit on Sauternes was interesting. I absolutely adore Sauternes. I have accumulated a large stock in my cellar going back to 2001 and in some cases even earlier. It's getting to the point where I really need to crack on with drinking it
The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.I'm off to France next week and will be making every effort to sample the local wines in every region I visit
AmitG said:
I absolutely adore Sauternes. I have accumulated a large stock in my cellar going back to 2001 and in some cases even earlier. It's getting to the point where I really need to crack on with drinking it The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.
Love the stuff too but am hoping they don't take the piss with 2013 Sauternes pricing like they have been doing in recent years. Paying release price only to see it halve in price a short while later isn't great and, as there's certainly no suggestion it'll be another 2001, I don't see any need to risk it this time round... The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.Consensus seems to be that 2013 en primeur (rouge) has been a total flop so far.
LooneyTunes said:
Love the stuff too but am hoping they don't take the piss with 2013 Sauternes pricing like they have been doing in recent years. Paying release price only to see it halve in price a short while later isn't great and, as there's certainly no suggestion it'll be another 2001, I don't see any need to risk it this time round...
Agreed. I have bought the last 2 decent vintages en primeur but I will hold off this time since I doubt that the wines will be over subscribed. Possibly Yquem might be, but that's way out of my league.LooneyTunes said:
Consensus seems to be that 2013 en primeur (rouge) has been a total flop so far.
It's been fun watching the wine merchants trying to find good things to say about it! The reaction from customers will be interesting. It seems to me that many of the Bordeaux houses got very ambitious with their pricing in the last few years and they concentrated on selling to Russia and Asia. Unfortunately this priced out many of the traditional customers. Obviously the houses are entitled to sell to whomsoever they want but I wonder what will happen this time round. It will be interesting to see how it pans out. I will not be buying at the current prices.AmitG said:
It's been fun watching the wine merchants trying to find good things to say about it! The reaction from customers will be interesting. It seems to me that many of the Bordeaux houses got very ambitious with their pricing in the last few years and they concentrated on selling to Russia and Asia. Unfortunately this priced out many of the traditional customers.
In my view, it's more fundamental than that. Buying en primeur you are effectively making an unsecured loan to the wine trade. The expectation was always that you'd be buying at a discount as a result.The chateaux are now keen to capture as much of that former discount as possible whilst also trying to build and maintain luxury brands.
Some will bite when it is a genuinely great year, but I know more and more people who just aren't playing the en primeur game (I think will almost certainly take a break this year). I hope for their sake the chateaux have their strategy right, as I don't imagine many younger wine drinkers will be stepping in to fill the shoes left by those who no longer see sense in buying this way.
LooneyTunes said:
Some will bite when it is a genuinely great year, but I know more and more people who just aren't playing the en primeur game (I think will almost certainly take a break this year). I hope for their sake the chateaux have their strategy right, as I don't imagine many younger wine drinkers will be stepping in to fill the shoes left by those who no longer see sense in buying this way.
There is more fluff and bulls
t written by the wine trade than almost any other I have come across! As you say in a good vintage it works but the rest of the time I really don't get it. I've been looking to buy some 2010 Grande Puy Lacoste since it was released (my daughter was born in 2010)....the wine got great reviews when released, it's a very good year and by the standards of a lot of wines from that year is relatively affordable. Yet it's offered below the en primeur price......
AmitG said:
Great video.
The bit on Sauternes was interesting. I absolutely adore Sauternes. I have accumulated a large stock in my cellar going back to 2001 and in some cases even earlier. It's getting to the point where I really need to crack on with drinking it The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.
I'm off to France next week and will be making every effort to sample the local wines in every region I visit
I'm also a big sticky wine fan. There's a saying "you can never drink a sauternes too old or too youung" The bit on Sauternes was interesting. I absolutely adore Sauternes. I have accumulated a large stock in my cellar going back to 2001 and in some cases even earlier. It's getting to the point where I really need to crack on with drinking it
The 2013 vintage is meant to be very good, in marked contrast to the rest of the 2013 Bordeaux vintage, which according to initial accounts is average at best.I'm off to France next week and will be making every effort to sample the local wines in every region I visit
Over the next week and a half I am hoping to visit:
Booked on the Eurotunnel tomorrow morning, can't wait
- Loire valley to drink some nice white wines and also try to stock up on the famous Bonnezeaux (sweet wine with a honey taste...really nice)
- Bordeaux region including Sauternes. I visited Sauternes years ago and the people in the Maison du Sauternes were so friendly and nice. They said they didn't get many visitors
- South east region, in particular Chateauneuf du Pape which is one of my favourite red wines (hoping to visit Domaine de Vieux Telegraphe)
- Reims, to drink some champagnes. There is a delightful champagne shop near the cathedral, which stocks many of the lesser known (but often tastier IMHO) names
Booked on the Eurotunnel tomorrow morning, can't wait
LooneyTunes said:
In my view, it's more fundamental than that. Buying en primeur you are effectively making an unsecured loan to the wine trade. The expectation was always that you'd be buying at a discount as a result.
The chateaux are now keen to capture as much of that former discount as possible whilst also trying to build and maintain luxury brands.
Some will bite when it is a genuinely great year, but I know more and more people who just aren't playing the en primeur game (I think will almost certainly take a break this year). I hope for their sake the chateaux have their strategy right, as I don't imagine many younger wine drinkers will be stepping in to fill the shoes left by those who no longer see sense in buying this way.
I really can't bring myself to even take a peek at Bordeaux wines - partly because this sort of discussion takes a lot of the fun out of it, but also I always get he feeling I'll be paying over the odds for a wine when I could be getting better value elsewhere. Saying that I've got a couple of lovely bottles of Pomerol from a box of 6 I bought a few years back, even so they were "only" £12 a bottle. The chateaux are now keen to capture as much of that former discount as possible whilst also trying to build and maintain luxury brands.
Some will bite when it is a genuinely great year, but I know more and more people who just aren't playing the en primeur game (I think will almost certainly take a break this year). I hope for their sake the chateaux have their strategy right, as I don't imagine many younger wine drinkers will be stepping in to fill the shoes left by those who no longer see sense in buying this way.
From an education point of view I also like to buy wine from places I've visited and enjoyed, I find that I am able to remember and visualise the wine much better once I have been where it is made (there's a group of villages and wine I can spirit myself straight back to, and taste the wine of just by saying their names: Rasteau, Cairanne, Sablet, Gigondas, Vacqueyras, Chateauneuf). I'm quite a GSM (Grenache, Syrah, Mouvedre) fan...
Now the sun is coming out it's rosé time again, so one of my favourite holidays includes a trip to Provence and sampling their huge output! We made a great trip up the d558 from St Tropez last year stopping at several vineyards on the way up to the motorway who were more than happy to let us taste their finest and tell us about their wine. A great way to learn!
I have found that having an enthusiastic wife is more than enough to help with an education in wine. She's currently doing the WSET Diploma so I get to see what she's up to and "help" with tasting the considerable depth and breadth of wine she has to go through as part of the course. We also try and tailor any holiday around a wine region. We've visited wine regions in North Italy, France, the Rioja/Duero regions in Spain and Margaret river in Oz. Chile/Argentina/Uruguay and New Zealand are on the list.
prand said:
Chile/Argentina/Uruguay and New Zealand are on the list.
I'm a hardcore (visit 2-3 times a year for last 10 yrs) Burgundy fan.But this year I went to NZ for the first time (for the whole of feb....!).
I can heartily recommend a trip there. The wineries we visited were excellent.
(Must chase down where the cases we shipped back to the UK have got to...)
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