Craft beer/Real Ale - Deadly rivals or brothers in arms?
Discussion
Swervin_Mervin said:
Technically no one drinks "beer" anymore - beer was originally unhopped. We drink ale.
Techincally you've got that the wrong way round 
"In the fifteenth century, and until the seventeenth, ale stood for the unhopped fermented malt liquor which had long been the native drink of these islands. Beer was the hopped malt liquor introduced from the Low Countires in the fifteenth century and popular first of all in the towns. By the eighteenth century, however, all malt liquor was hopped and there had been a silent mutation in the meaning of the two terms. For a time the terms became synonymous, in fact, but local habits of nomenclature still continued to perpetuate what had been a real difference: 'beer' was the malt liquor which tended to be found in towns, 'ale' was the term in general use in the country districts. [Peter Mathias, "The Brewing Industry in England," Cambridge University Press, 1959]"
Anyway, I think the craft beer thing is all b
ks. It's all beer, ale or what have you, it's either good or bad to your taste or not. Craft is just another attempt by the marketeers to sell more product. Swervin_Mervin said:
RichB said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
Technically no one drinks "beer" anymore - beer was originally unhopped. We drink ale.
Techincally you've got that the wrong way round ks. I knew I'd do that 
TheJimi said:
I'm really tempted to suggest that a lot of people are being suckered by the marketing terminology.
"craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just bks.
This. The "war" (if such as thing exists) is between flavourless, generic mass produced lagers vs. beers that are produced independently in small batches that actually taste of something. "craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just b
ks. I also don't get the whole "beer" vs "ale" thing. Beer is the overarching name for an alcoholic beverage made from malt, yeast, water and hops. Ale is a beer made using a warm fermentation process, and Lager is a beer made using a cold fermentation process. All ales are beers, but not all beers are ales. Therefore, a "craft beer" can be a "real ale." There is no conflict.
uncinqsix said:
Therefore, a "craft beer" can be a "real ale." There is no conflict.
Yes it "can", maybe. But not always, according to CAMRA. Which is kinda the problem. It really doesn't matter to CAMRA how much love and attention went into that batch of keg Wheat beer from Darkstar, or Kernel Table Beer, or Thornbridge Jaipur ... it ain't "real ale" as defined by the consumer group. The group without which we would not be having this debate in the first place, let's be clear.
The trendy keg beer places are sneered at for serving fizzy over-hopped stuff. But a grubby pub with badly kept Doom Bar will be lauded to being "Real Ale". When it is just serving generic branded beer owned by a massive conglomerate.
Which of these pubs are closing ? And which are opening new places all the time ? That is the problem that CAMRA have, we all want cask to thrive, but it needs to broaden the appeal. And Brewdog long since stopped being the feisty underdog sticking it to the man. The aggro with CAMRA and the Portman group are a bit childish.
I do find Brewdog a bit too hip at times, but they are pleasant places to hang out in midweek, particularly as their clientele seem to be a bit more balanced gender-wise too. A third of "something that tastes like banana bread" for the lady ?
Seems to me the best pubs, the popular pubs, are now ones that have a range of cask as well as interesting keg and bottled beer.
Sounds like everyone concerned needs to grow up a bit!
(the situation is a little different over here in NZ. We've had decades of terrible generic beer, followed by a massive explosion of what you'd probably call "craft beer", that covers everything from the fizzy hoppy stuff to something close to proper English ale. The difference is that none of our old incumbent beers are worth preserving)
(the situation is a little different over here in NZ. We've had decades of terrible generic beer, followed by a massive explosion of what you'd probably call "craft beer", that covers everything from the fizzy hoppy stuff to something close to proper English ale. The difference is that none of our old incumbent beers are worth preserving)
MonkeyMatt said:
I like good beer, I don't like bad beer! That is all
That pretty much sums it up. I'm a passive member of CAMRA (by marriage) and I find some members attitudes really weird. For example Doom Bar gets slagged off by loads of them for, as far as I can tell, being a reasonable beer that loads of people like rather than having unusual flavours that will put people off. Then there's there's the "tickers" who are basically the beer equivalent of train spotters with the aim of trying everything, but won't bother going to quite a lot of pubs as they've already tried their beers...surely if you tried it and liked it you'd fancy another one?
I go to my local (which, luckily, is excellent) and will always drink the guest beers.
If they're 'real ale' or 'craft' I really don't know, but there are some excellent beers being made these days!
Had a couple of pints of 'Long Blonde' from the Long Man Brewery last night (fairly local to me) - and my God it was superb!
https://www.longmanbrewery.com/our-beers/long-blon...
If they're 'real ale' or 'craft' I really don't know, but there are some excellent beers being made these days!
Had a couple of pints of 'Long Blonde' from the Long Man Brewery last night (fairly local to me) - and my God it was superb!
https://www.longmanbrewery.com/our-beers/long-blon...
I like a good real ale but I've had some horrors too. I'm no hipster but to be honest, I only drink real ale if I can't get a good craft beer these days. There's some stunningly good ones out there now.
There's plenty of fantastic every day craft beers to sup on with friends on a Friday night and there's also some lovely real ales which will do nicely.
I'd not have a real ale on special occasions though, that's where your Schloss Eggenberg Samichlaus Calssic or Goose Island Bourbon County come in!
There's plenty of fantastic every day craft beers to sup on with friends on a Friday night and there's also some lovely real ales which will do nicely.
I'd not have a real ale on special occasions though, that's where your Schloss Eggenberg Samichlaus Calssic or Goose Island Bourbon County come in!
I too don't really see the distinction
The large breweries invest thousands and indeed millions in quality control, and it is a rare indeed that you get variation between the taste from batch to batch.
Big Beer, followed the consumer as the trend went to less bold flavours, and lager became much cleaner on the palate, with gradually lower and lower noticeable taste. (Try a blind tasting across five or six major lagers) it is quite hard to be sure.
So "craft" was kind of an inevitable reaction, especially in country where 40% of consumption was always Bitter.
However - and this is my point. Craft often have great variation between batches, you can have one bottle and think wow this is awesome. Order some more and be really disappointed. It can be variable in quality, and frankly some of the "innovation" in flavours is pretty disgusting/specialist.
I am close to the Hogs Back Brewery, they do make consistently good beers - TEA for example.
The large breweries invest thousands and indeed millions in quality control, and it is a rare indeed that you get variation between the taste from batch to batch.
Big Beer, followed the consumer as the trend went to less bold flavours, and lager became much cleaner on the palate, with gradually lower and lower noticeable taste. (Try a blind tasting across five or six major lagers) it is quite hard to be sure.
So "craft" was kind of an inevitable reaction, especially in country where 40% of consumption was always Bitter.
However - and this is my point. Craft often have great variation between batches, you can have one bottle and think wow this is awesome. Order some more and be really disappointed. It can be variable in quality, and frankly some of the "innovation" in flavours is pretty disgusting/specialist.
I am close to the Hogs Back Brewery, they do make consistently good beers - TEA for example.
Gargamel said:
I am close to the Hogs Back Brewery, they do make consistently good beers - TEA for example.
Although IMO they're not as good now as they used to be when it was all bottle conditioned, I can see why they've done it however it apparently cost them a fortune every time some idiot returned a bottle to the supermarket because it had bits in it 
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