Craft beer/Real Ale - Deadly rivals or brothers in arms?

[cornet]

Craft beer in the UK doesn't have an official definition unlike in the US. Brewdog have come forward trying to offer a definition which could be used here https://www.brewdog.com/lowdown/blog/defining-craf... (website is in a state of flux atm so some images aren't working).

One reason for the distinction between Craft Beer and Real Ale is that what constitutes the former isn't recognised by CAMRA as pointed out by other people in this thread. The definition for "Real Ale" can be found here

http://www.camra.org.uk/faq

However good beer is good beer no matter what you call it and it's great to see small breweries brewing interesting beers.

There is such a wide selection of beer these days that pretty much anyone can find something they like.

[NorthernSky]

Hope ale and craft are brothers in arms, there is a much bigger problem of all the ignorant lager drinkers who don't want to experiment, to worry about instead!

[Gargamel]

Truckosaurus said:

I think we can all agree the 'Enemy'/Bad Guy is mass produced tasteless fizzy lager from the multinationals that (in pubs at least) isn't even any cheaper than the high quality beers (whether real/craft/cask/keg/etc).

But the quality of those products is very very strong.

Peroni for example is a very high quality beer. However some tinned beers at the 'value end' are really pretty grim

[RKi]

Peroni is just fizzy watery ste like the rest of the macro lagers IMO.

[truck71]

I bought a case of peroni at the beginning of December to cater for any guests and visitors who aren't into ale. All 12 bottles are still in the fridge. .

[menguin]

truck71 said:

I bought a case of peroni at the beginning of December to cater for any guests and visitors who aren't into ale. All 12 bottles are still in the fridge. .

Anything like Peroni isn't really a winter drink, though! I often enjoy a bottle of Peroni in summer but cold beer when I'm already cold isn't my thing in winter.

[Gargamel]

I suppose my point (though slightly lost) is that the mainstream beers have a consistency and quality to the brewing process which isn't matched (yet) by the craft brewers. Whose flavours/quality can vary quite significantly.

Don't get me wrong, I like Ales, stronger flavours and more complex, there is some great beer around at the moment.

But I do think some of the "craft" beers aren't as good as they think they are.

[jogon]

RKi said:

Peroni is just fizzy watery ste like the rest of the macro lagers IMO.

Agree, It sounds a bit snobbish but once you've got a taste for these craft beers the idea of popping into a normal pub for a pint of Stella, Heineken, Estrella, Peroni etc isn't quite as appealing.

Will be interesting to see how these brands compete moving forward if this trend continues to grow.

[RizzoTheRat]

RKi said:

Peroni is just fizzy watery ste like the rest of the macro lagers IMO.

I always loved the Wychwood view of lager

[uncinqsix]

Gargamel said:

Peroni for example is a very high quality beer.

This is actually correct, in the same way that the Toyota Corolla is a very high quality car. However, there is very little pleasure to be found either in a bottle of Peroni or at the wheel of a Corolla.

[menguin]

uncinqsix said:

This is actually correct, in the same way that the Toyota Corolla is a very high quality car. However, there is very little pleasure to be found either in a bottle of Peroni or at the wheel of a Corolla.

Devil's advocate mode... Peroni has a very subtle taste. Similar to a tuna carpaccio compared to tuna in a can. Different strokes for different folks.

[mizx]

menguin said:

uncinqsix said:

This is actually correct, in the same way that the Toyota Corolla is a very high quality car. However, there is very little pleasure to be found either in a bottle of Peroni or at the wheel of a Corolla.

Devil's advocate mode... Peroni has a very subtle taste. Similar to a tuna carpaccio compared to tuna in a can. Different strokes for different folks.

I couldn't say it's bad quality, for what it is.

I would order a Peroni in a restaurant if that's what they had and wouldn't begrudge it, but compared to the subtleties that make good beers good within the more regular of the proper lagers styles, Kellerbier, Dunkel, Helles, Schwarzbier, Pilsner etc.; those are the tuna carpaccio to the tinned tuna that is Peroni (in the same sense tinned tuna can be and often is a good quality product).

Edited by mizx on Wednesday 18th March 21:46

[vournikas]

mizx said:

couldn't say it's bad quality, for what it is.

I would order a Peroni in a restaurant if that's what they had and wouldn't begrudge it, but compared to the subtleties that make good beers good within the more regular of the proper lagers styles, Kellerbier, Dunkel, Helles, Schwarzbier, Pilsner etc.; those are the tuna carpaccio to the tinned tuna that is Peroni (in the same sense tinned tuna can be and often is a good quality product).

Edited by mizx on Wednesday 18th March 21:46

Good analogy.

[jogon]

mizx said:

couldn't say it's bad quality, for what it is.

I would order a Peroni in a restaurant if that's what they had and wouldn't begrudge it, but compared to the subtleties that make good beers good within the more regular of the proper lagers styles, Kellerbier, Dunkel, Helles, Schwarzbier, Pilsner etc.; those are the tuna carpaccio to the tinned tuna that is Peroni (in the same sense tinned tuna can be and often is a good quality product).

Edited by mizx on Wednesday 18th March 21:46

Just back from my local brew dog and a few hefeweisse dunkel down and have to say it is my new tipple for the time being. Similar to a german wheat beer but a little darker in colour and more complex flavour, very nice indeed.

The days of mass produced beer are long gone for me.

If your in City of London I went to a good one the other day just around the corner of the new Cannon St station called Pelt Trader, big chalk board up behind the bar with various different taps all labelled up with a variety of options. Pizzas looked nice too.

[LordGrover]

Y'see... pubs and pizza.
Just wrong.

I miss proper pubs.

[truck71]

LordGrover said:

Y'see... pubs and pizza.
Just wrong.

I miss proper pubs.

Me too, unfortunately we're an ever decreasing minority. That said, if the pub business had recognised that trends were changing and gave their boozers a wider appeal without them having to go gastro (in the way micro pubs have become successful) then the more traditional feel could have been retained. Clearly people still want to go out, look at the explosion in coffee shop culture (something I can't abide but again I'm a minority) so there could have been a balance. And still could, an environment that caters for a crossover of the traditional pub and coffee shop is one that's springing up in places.

[Baryonyx]

Gargamel said:

But the quality of those products is very very strong.

Peroni for example is a very high quality beer. However some tinned beers at the 'value end' are really pretty grim

Peroni is flavourless rubbish.

[rscott]

Baryonyx said:

Gargamel said:

But the quality of those products is very very strong.

Peroni for example is a very high quality beer. However some tinned beers at the 'value end' are really pretty grim

Peroni is flavourless rubbish.

Depends which Peroni... Peroni Red, Gran Riserva or real Peroni (the Italian brewed stuff, not the water they produce over here) are decent enough.

[Baryonyx]

In Italy I'd choose a Birra Moretti any day. That's another Italian beer that is rubbish over here. However, BM is fantastic over there.

[Truckosaurus]

Vaguely on-topic... Why is it that most of the mainstream 'foreign' beers in the UK are brewed under licence but if you go to America all the European beers are imported?

Is it for tax reasons or is the market for fizzy lager so uncaring there is no benefit in importing 'genuine' Italian Peroni or Dutch Henekin or Belgian Stella etc.?