Craft beer/Real Ale - Deadly rivals or brothers in arms?
Discussion
I'm sitting in my local having just had a really nice pint of ale (IPA by an American brewer called Harpoon) followed by a bottle of Crystal Rye IPA from Southwold's own Adnams brewery.
There seems to be quite a degree of animosity developing between Real Ale and Craft (I'm thinking specifcally of an article I read on the Brewdog website and comments on here - hipster beards vs twiggy beards etc), but is this a necessary or desireable conflict?
My own view is that there is good and bad on both sides. I've sampled quite a few sickly, artificial tasting 'Craft' beers in the last year or so, but equally I've come across many derivative, poorly kept (a different issue maybe), uninspiring Real Ales also.
To become the devils advocate for a moment: Is the Craft beer 'revolution' merely a tool of the marketeers who desire a return to easily kept, adulterated, mass produced 'dead' beers? Is the Real Ale movement a reactionary, market-unfriendly product that claims to support a superior prodcuct that all too ften falls short?
Your thoughts please gents.....
There seems to be quite a degree of animosity developing between Real Ale and Craft (I'm thinking specifcally of an article I read on the Brewdog website and comments on here - hipster beards vs twiggy beards etc), but is this a necessary or desireable conflict?
My own view is that there is good and bad on both sides. I've sampled quite a few sickly, artificial tasting 'Craft' beers in the last year or so, but equally I've come across many derivative, poorly kept (a different issue maybe), uninspiring Real Ales also.
To become the devils advocate for a moment: Is the Craft beer 'revolution' merely a tool of the marketeers who desire a return to easily kept, adulterated, mass produced 'dead' beers? Is the Real Ale movement a reactionary, market-unfriendly product that claims to support a superior prodcuct that all too ften falls short?
Your thoughts please gents.....
Just to clarify - the rye ipa was presented as a 'Craft' beer.
Interesting that you equate volume with quality Paddy (that tends to be my feeling also), is this necessarily the case though I wonder? Does increased market share always equal increased greed and thus decreased quality? Just observation is that the Brewdog beers have taken a dip in quality recently (imho of course)
Interesting that you equate volume with quality Paddy (that tends to be my feeling also), is this necessarily the case though I wonder? Does increased market share always equal increased greed and thus decreased quality? Just observation is that the Brewdog beers have taken a dip in quality recently (imho of course)
From experience craft beers tend to be the kind of thing you buy by the bottle and be quite underwhelmed by. Real ale on the other hand is brewed locally, served by the pint, fresh and generally just better!
I'm quite fortunate in that I live in an area with many small breweries though so the proper beer I get to drink is very fresh and I get to sample many varieties. I've got three locals that brew on site!
I'm quite fortunate in that I live in an area with many small breweries though so the proper beer I get to drink is very fresh and I get to sample many varieties. I've got three locals that brew on site!
bobbo89 said:
From experience craft beers tend to be the kind of thing you buy by the bottle and be quite underwhelmed by. Real ale on the other hand is brewed locally, served by the pint, fresh and generally just better!
I'm quite fortunate in that I live in an area with many small breweries though so the proper beer I get to drink is very fresh and I get to sample many varieties. I've got three locals that brew on site!
I'm not sure craft beer means its sold in a bottle...that just means you don't live near a craft brewery? I'm quite fortunate in that I live in an area with many small breweries though so the proper beer I get to drink is very fresh and I get to sample many varieties. I've got three locals that brew on site!
I can buy Shepherd Neame beers here in New York, but I wouldnt because its better in Kent.
I should probably declare my previous allegiances here - about ten years ago I worked for a small scale real ale microbrewery at the weekends and got fully indoctrinated into the real ale fold.
My initial reaction to the slickly marketed craft beer movement was 'Infidels! It isn't respiring! Now - I'm less automatically suspicious/derisive of a craft beer (in fact I like quite a number of them and would/do choose them over a poor real ale).
However - I would maintain that a good real ale, well cellared, has the edge on any craft beer I've come across. Is that just personal taste, or justifed beardism?
My initial reaction to the slickly marketed craft beer movement was 'Infidels! It isn't respiring! Now - I'm less automatically suspicious/derisive of a craft beer (in fact I like quite a number of them and would/do choose them over a poor real ale).
However - I would maintain that a good real ale, well cellared, has the edge on any craft beer I've come across. Is that just personal taste, or justifed beardism?
I spend half my time in the Pacific North West of the US, and it is a massive thing here. Back in 2009 on a trip to California, 80% of what I drank was some Newcastle Brown knock off (not a big fan), but the whole industry has come leaps and bounds, there is so much good beer. Now in WA and OR, two of biggest states in the 'carft beer' industry, many places have no mass produced National beers on tap, and most places have the token Bud Light to keep boring drinkers happy.
A friend told me of a Petrol Station owner near him that started to sell local beer which you fill you BYO container (a Growler)to take home, and it took off that he has over 100 beers in the shop, and makes more so much money it kept the place in business
A friend told me of a Petrol Station owner near him that started to sell local beer which you fill you BYO container (a Growler)to take home, and it took off that he has over 100 beers in the shop, and makes more so much money it kept the place in business
In my experience, craft beer tends to be over hoppy, highly alcoholic and fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, black rimmed glasses wearing, skinny hipster f
ks.
Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat fks.
So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
ks.Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat f
ks.So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
All beer is brewed, none is crafted- the quality of the ingredients, recipe and method are what makes the difference. There will be great beer and crap beer from all quarters, big brewers or small brewers. As for craft beer, it's a marketing label that's caught on and is now being used to try and differentiate one product from another. Absolutely no guarantee of quality in the same way real ale isn't.
As for Brewdog making a st storm, could it be to just get the debate going and spread awareness or theirs and the industries products? Or, had the real ale scene become an exclusive club for the unwashed beards spouting jibberish down the local? Maybe both.
Whatever your stance the renaissance of interest in beer and particularly quality and range rather than mainstream syrup has to be a good thing.
Personally I prefer a traditional bitter, pale ale, porter or mild rather than a cold fizzy drink. That's not to say the latter are crap, just not my taste. They are however miles better than Carling, Girlsberg et al. Imo.
As for Brewdog making a s
t storm, could it be to just get the debate going and spread awareness or theirs and the industries products? Or, had the real ale scene become an exclusive club for the unwashed beards spouting jibberish down the local? Maybe both.Whatever your stance the renaissance of interest in beer and particularly quality and range rather than mainstream syrup has to be a good thing.
Personally I prefer a traditional bitter, pale ale, porter or mild rather than a cold fizzy drink. That's not to say the latter are crap, just not my taste. They are however miles better than Carling, Girlsberg et al. Imo.
HarryFlatters said:
In my experience, craft beer tends to be over hoppy, highly alcoholic and fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, black rimmed glasses wearing, skinny hipster fks.
Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat fks.
So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
Perfect!ks.Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat f
ks.So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
Indeed - and the "craft" nomenclature only really works in the USA anyway, where 15 years ago essentially ALL the beer drunk in America was horrendous macro-produced fizzy crap.
"Micro" brew and later "Craft" brew (since micro dictates a scale that isn't necessarily applicable anymore) basically meant new breweries that weren't MillerCoors or AB.
The UK is different as our traditional brewers (barely) survived the 60s and 70s, re-emerging as Real Ale. Plenty of "craft" producers use traditional English brewing techniques - the distinction is a corporate one, not one of technique or flavour.
"Micro" brew and later "Craft" brew (since micro dictates a scale that isn't necessarily applicable anymore) basically meant new breweries that weren't MillerCoors or AB.
The UK is different as our traditional brewers (barely) survived the 60s and 70s, re-emerging as Real Ale. Plenty of "craft" producers use traditional English brewing techniques - the distinction is a corporate one, not one of technique or flavour.
SamR380 said:
HarryFlatters said:
In my experience, craft beer tends to be over hoppy, highly alcoholic and fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, black rimmed glasses wearing, skinny hipster fks.
Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat fks.
So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
Perfect!ks.Real ale tends to be faintly hoppy, occasionally sweet and not fizzy. Normally consumed by bearded, flat capped wearing fat f
ks.So they drink beer, and have beards. This means that they're essentially the same, just 30 years displaced.
I like both.
Sounds about right to me.
vournikas said:
...I have no idea what constitutes a "craft" beer.
Having just looked on Google and Wiki I assume it's just yet another Americanism because from what I can glean it means a beer from a small brewery. 
Presumably if you serve it from a cask it's a real ale? When bottled it's probably dead?
The animosity that Brewdog tried to stir up with CAMRA was pretty cringeworthy. They should have sought to work with CAMRA to increase their market rather than trying to look like they were sticking it to the man with their rather dreary selection of 'craft beers'. What is better, craft beer or real ale? You'll find good and bad of both. For me, ale wins every time. I particularly like a good English bitter or mild. I don't have a beard or a BMW GS either, so I'm probably not a typical real ale tt.
Craft beers are great for sipping but will you ever reminisce about drinking one? No. Whereas I still look back on a pint of Coniston Bluebird Bitter slugged after a climb up Sharp Edge as one of the greatest drinks in my life.
t.Craft beers are great for sipping but will you ever reminisce about drinking one? No. Whereas I still look back on a pint of Coniston Bluebird Bitter slugged after a climb up Sharp Edge as one of the greatest drinks in my life.
I'm really tempted to suggest that a lot of people are being suckered by the marketing terminology.
"craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just bks.
"craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just b
ks. TheJimi said:
I'm really tempted to suggest that a lot of people are being suckered by the marketing terminology.
"craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just bks.
"craft ale" & "real ale" = the same bloody thing!
The differences aren't in the name, imo, rather in the ingredients and how they're brewed - just like all beers and lagers.
I'm reminded of a Tim Minchin quote from his piece "Storm": "Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work? Medicine"
Same concept for beer & ale. It's beer and ale. To prefix with "real" or "craft" is just b
ks. and why distinguish between beer and ale? It's beer! Technically no one drinks "beer" anymore - beer was originally unhopped. We drink ale.
Anyway - the craft thing is rather getting on my wick tbh. There've been some great ales produced under this wave of new interest in reale ale, but so much of what's on offer now is just samey and over-hopped. Moreover, I should be able to drink a few without making myself more thirsty - something often hindered by the over-hopped astringency of many modern examples. There seems to be this misunderstanding that you have to hit people round the face with big flavours, otherwise an ale is deemed as not having flavour (perhaps an effect of Brewdog - although they do some cracking ales imo).
There's next to no seasonaility in most offerings either, which is perhaps my biggest bugbear - I don't want to drink a pale strongly hopped fizzy ale in the middle of winter. I want something with a nice balance of both hops AND malt. It should be rich and biscuity.
Fortunately we're blessed round here that we have some great independents that really understand those aspects of the drinking experience (think Redwillow, Bollington, Marble etc) and thankfully many of the bigger breweries are sticking to what they know best (albeit with "craft" spin-offs presumably to milk the bearded tits) - I'm thinking Hook Norton, Adnams, Fullers etc.
Anyway - the craft thing is rather getting on my wick tbh. There've been some great ales produced under this wave of new interest in reale ale, but so much of what's on offer now is just samey and over-hopped. Moreover, I should be able to drink a few without making myself more thirsty - something often hindered by the over-hopped astringency of many modern examples. There seems to be this misunderstanding that you have to hit people round the face with big flavours, otherwise an ale is deemed as not having flavour (perhaps an effect of Brewdog - although they do some cracking ales imo).
There's next to no seasonaility in most offerings either, which is perhaps my biggest bugbear - I don't want to drink a pale strongly hopped fizzy ale in the middle of winter. I want something with a nice balance of both hops AND malt. It should be rich and biscuity.
Fortunately we're blessed round here that we have some great independents that really understand those aspects of the drinking experience (think Redwillow, Bollington, Marble etc) and thankfully many of the bigger breweries are sticking to what they know best (albeit with "craft" spin-offs presumably to milk the bearded tits) - I'm thinking Hook Norton, Adnams, Fullers etc.
Edited by Swervin_Mervin on Friday 6th March 14:25
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
Either way - I think the main key thing for what I imagine is most of us here ..... there seems to be a bit of a rennaissance for getting 'beers' - tasty beers - on the shelves in the Supermarkets, as an alternate to the tinned tosh. Also there seems to be a push for tasty beers behind the bars too.
All good as far as I can see.
Even toying with a membership to Beer52.com
I wouldn't disagree. It's better than being where we were 15yrs ago. Plus, once all the hipsters have found something else to be interested in the chaff will be sifted out.All good as far as I can see.
Even toying with a membership to Beer52.com
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