Wine - Where's the Spending Sweet Spot
Discussion
Truckosaurus said:
To my untalented pallette I've found buying from Laithwaites in the £10 range gives you some interesting wines compared to supermarket wines in the same price range (which don't seem any different to ones at a Fiver).
This for me as well (Sunday Times version). Mixed cases of 12 at c£100 and never disappointed. Supermarket £5 bottles can be pretty rough even if they have supposedly been reduced from £8. I don't know enough about it to worry about expensive bottles, i just know from 
experience what i like.
faustino I gran reserve 2001 is my ultimate but it's getting harder to buy at a decent price these days, asda were selling it at £13 a bottle a couple of years ago but i've run down stocks!
there was an unbelievable wine from lanzarote that i used to love too but the bodega closed down and i have only one bottle left-what the hell am i supposed to do now? if i drink it i know i'll never get another
i also love a bottle of blue eyed boy, but at £30ish a bottle it's for special occasions only for me.
experience what i like.faustino I gran reserve 2001 is my ultimate but it's getting harder to buy at a decent price these days, asda were selling it at £13 a bottle a couple of years ago but i've run down stocks!
there was an unbelievable wine from lanzarote that i used to love too but the bodega closed down and i have only one bottle left-what the hell am i supposed to do now? if i drink it i know i'll never get another
i also love a bottle of blue eyed boy, but at £30ish a bottle it's for special occasions only for me.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I don't know enough about it to worry about expensive bottles, i just know from experience what i like.
faustino I gran reserve 2001 is my ultimate but it's getting harder to buy at a decent price these days, asda were selling it at £13 a bottle a couple of years ago but i've run down stocks!
there was an unbelievable wine from lanzarote that i used to love too but the bodega closed down and i have only one bottle left-what the hell am i supposed to do now? if i drink it i know i'll never get another
i also love a bottle of blue eyed boy, but at £30ish a bottle it's for special occasions only for me.
I have a fondness for Faustino, too, family Christmases in my youth. In the mid '80s it was a fiver from Trago Mills! experience what i like.faustino I gran reserve 2001 is my ultimate but it's getting harder to buy at a decent price these days, asda were selling it at £13 a bottle a couple of years ago but i've run down stocks!
there was an unbelievable wine from lanzarote that i used to love too but the bodega closed down and i have only one bottle left-what the hell am i supposed to do now? if i drink it i know i'll never get another
i also love a bottle of blue eyed boy, but at £30ish a bottle it's for special occasions only for me.
There are other grand reservas that are better. I've occasionally bought a mixed case from Vinissimus, special offers sometimes, which even with shipping worked out cheaper than the UK,
regards,
Jet
digimeistter said:
Sainsbury's own brand Malbec, £5 a bottle nicest red wine I have come across personally - I am far from being a connoisseur though.
Aldi and Lidl both do a nice Malbec for the price, Lidl especially sell some pretty decent wine for under £10 https://www.aldi.co.uk/exquisite-malbec/p/00000001...
http://www.lidl.co.uk/en/11133.htm
Kermit power said:
I know very little about wine, but at any given price point, I'd take a Ribera del Duero over a Rioja any day...
If you have a Lidl nearby then get a bottle of "Rioja Joven" (unoaked), £4.00, or "Rioja Reserva" £4.50.They are both superb, and I believe that similar tasting wines would cost more than £12.00 in Waitrose.
Spanish wines have come on in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years.
If you like white wine, then most Albarinos are a very safe bet.
LeadFarmer said:
I hate having to buy a bottle of wine. I stand there in front of the vast display without a clue which one to buy. I usually end up buying the bottle with the nicest label.
You are not alone.And even when you chance on one that tastes great, can you ever find it again? I bloody can't! I drink it thinking I'll make a note of what that's called, then forget.
The best wines for me are the ones the locals keep. I'm a big fan of Spanish Rioja and the best I've drunk was in the region itself. Madrid also seems to have exceptional wines that you can't get here. My biggest surprise was Hungary - some of the reds are superb but because the production levels are small we never see it in the UK.
Anyway - back on topic. My sweet spot is around £10 mark. I don't really like frinch wines and stick to Spanish, Italian and then occasionally new world - Argentina, Aus and Chile.
I'm currently with Angel Wines and find them really good. The marketing is very good and the wines of much better quality imo to supermarkets. I also go to France once a year for everyday wine although I could do with some recommendations as I'm not sure I'm getting the best E5-10 wine from the Calais lot. Any suggestions?
My other question for the experts - how does the Wine Society and Laithwaites etc compare to Angel Wines? Much of muchness or am I missing out?
I'm also thinking of buying a couple of nice bottles a month as a little hobby that will age well and may even increase in value. Should I go to perhaps Berry Bros or Wine Society etc?
Thanks
Anyway - back on topic. My sweet spot is around £10 mark. I don't really like frinch wines and stick to Spanish, Italian and then occasionally new world - Argentina, Aus and Chile.
I'm currently with Angel Wines and find them really good. The marketing is very good and the wines of much better quality imo to supermarkets. I also go to France once a year for everyday wine although I could do with some recommendations as I'm not sure I'm getting the best E5-10 wine from the Calais lot. Any suggestions?
My other question for the experts - how does the Wine Society and Laithwaites etc compare to Angel Wines? Much of muchness or am I missing out?
I'm also thinking of buying a couple of nice bottles a month as a little hobby that will age well and may even increase in value. Should I go to perhaps Berry Bros or Wine Society etc?
Thanks
C0ffin D0dger said:
The key thing to remember is the fixed costs in that bottle of wine.
For a £5 bottle the actual value of the wine in it is very low. Not sure how accurate the graphic is that I've added below but you get the idea.
The more you pay the greater the percentage of that money goes to pay for the actual wine itself hence hopefully a better quality wine.
That said I don't generally pay much more than £6-8 per bottle and don't really class myself as any sort on connoisseur. I also quite wary of the surpermarket wine offers, I'll buy them but it's nearly always the same wines that they have at half price from time to time, thing is I'd happily pay £6 for a bottle of Tesco Finest Aussie Shiraz, but £12, no chance so it's not really as good as they try to make it look.
To add a little colour to this advice. I live in the Loire valley in France and over the last 11 years have managed to get a clear picture of the break points on price.For a £5 bottle the actual value of the wine in it is very low. Not sure how accurate the graphic is that I've added below but you get the idea.
The more you pay the greater the percentage of that money goes to pay for the actual wine itself hence hopefully a better quality wine.
That said I don't generally pay much more than £6-8 per bottle and don't really class myself as any sort on connoisseur. I also quite wary of the surpermarket wine offers, I'll buy them but it's nearly always the same wines that they have at half price from time to time, thing is I'd happily pay £6 for a bottle of Tesco Finest Aussie Shiraz, but £12, no chance so it's not really as good as they try to make it look.
A farmer produces a litre of grape juice for the local co-op and gets paid about €1/ litre. If the grapes are hand picked, this adds about €.20/ litre to their costs. This price applies to most of Europe be it Bordeax, Valpoicella or Rioja. If you buy wine from the Co-op they charge you about €3/litre. They also sell to Waitrose, where you will pay about £8/ bottle
Our producer in St Nicholas, producing high quality AOC wine and has a significant holding, sells about 75% of his annual production to a merchant at about €2.75/litre. He arrives at the premises with a road train bottling plant and supplies his own cork or screw-cap bottle and label that usually states "bottled at the premises of". This is the point where Wine Club, Tesco and Laithwaites operate their labels will be written in English and they do the marketing. The merchant retails the same wine online for €11/ bottle.
The other 25%, he bottles himself and markets locally at wine fairs etc at about €5:20/ bottle including 20%VAT. The customs are over him like a bad rash monitoring corks, labels and bottles so there is very limited scope for "evaporation".
Another local producer consists of 2 cousins and a sister. The guys are busy all day, fixing fences, tending vines and you would say are too busy earning a living to make any money. Meanwhile the sister went Bordeaux to understand marketing. They have now won gold medals at the Paris show for a parcel of land that has been oaked for 18 months. This wine retails at €9:50/bottle, but costs the same to produce, plus 2-years storage, in fairly expensive barrels. She spends her time selling to restaurants in France and Internationally. She adds way more value than the guys ever do.
At the top end, the organisation that harvest our local chateau also have their own domain as well as significant Chateau acreage in Bordeaux. Their wines are not AOC but their skill is in blending and marketing. They sell most of their wines in containers to China, America and Japan, at about €15/ bottle - same basic costs, same grapes, smarter labels. But it is very nice wine.
If you are buying a wine in a supermarket without the chance to taste it beforehand, you can perhaps understand that the art of producing a smart-looking wine label can literally be worth a fortune.
Finally, consider the winery in Napa Valley, their local wine rows can be many kilometres long, the weather is hot and so they irrigate the land to increase their yield. They then take it to a central winery whose mass production is more akin to the rest of the food industry. But their market can easily bear $30/bottle, so that is what they charge the punter, but any overproduction can be shipped elsewhere and still turn a profit.
dave_s13 said:
LeadFarmer said:
I hate having to buy a bottle of wine. I stand there in front of the vast display without a clue which one to buy. I usually end up buying the bottle with the nicest label.
You are not alone.And even when you chance on one that tastes great, can you ever find it again? I bloody can't! I drink it thinking I'll make a note of what that's called, then forget.
Edited by Digger on Sunday 24th April 22:14
The Wine Society is by a distance the best wine merchant in the UK. it's a remarkable organisation in many ways. Compared to Laithwaites or Virginwines or pretty much any of the other mail order lot its in a different class.
It's not the cheapest way to buy wine though typically its competitive, what it doesn't do is heavy discounting loss leader offers like a supermarket can but it is THE most reliable supplier of just about any style of wine you can buy. It's own label wines are excellent examples of their type and their exhibition range is top quality.
They offer an absolutely no quibble guarantee on anything you buy (In my case that included replacing a £150 bottle of Haut Brion without a murmur despite me bring back a bottle with maybe an inch of wine left in it)
Back to the OP's question I would agree that the sweet spot for value seems to be about the 10-12 pound mark but there's value in wine that costs more than this. A really good bottle of wine can do much more than you would ever believe possible
And those who dismiss all French wine are in serious need of some guidance. Still the worlds best producer country and by a clear margin
It's not the cheapest way to buy wine though typically its competitive, what it doesn't do is heavy discounting loss leader offers like a supermarket can but it is THE most reliable supplier of just about any style of wine you can buy. It's own label wines are excellent examples of their type and their exhibition range is top quality.
They offer an absolutely no quibble guarantee on anything you buy (In my case that included replacing a £150 bottle of Haut Brion without a murmur despite me bring back a bottle with maybe an inch of wine left in it)
Back to the OP's question I would agree that the sweet spot for value seems to be about the 10-12 pound mark but there's value in wine that costs more than this. A really good bottle of wine can do much more than you would ever believe possible
And those who dismiss all French wine are in serious need of some guidance. Still the worlds best producer country and by a clear margin
Pleased to see so many recommendations for the Wine Society.
Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount but their £5-6 bottles are much better than than generic supermarket offerings.
I really should buy all my supplies from them but just can't kick the supermarket habit.
Tanners of Shrewsbury is well worth a visit and/or a case delivered.
Will get skewered for this but I just can't have French reds. What is the point of Beaujolais?
Compared to Italian reds of a similar price, particularly the negroamaros and any Puglia grape, they are characterless, thin and unsatisfying.
Always willing to try any recommendations though.
Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount but their £5-6 bottles are much better than than generic supermarket offerings.
I really should buy all my supplies from them but just can't kick the supermarket habit.
Tanners of Shrewsbury is well worth a visit and/or a case delivered.
Will get skewered for this but I just can't have French reds. What is the point of Beaujolais?
Compared to Italian reds of a similar price, particularly the negroamaros and any Puglia grape, they are characterless, thin and unsatisfying.
Always willing to try any recommendations though.
newlad said:
Pleased to see so many recommendations for the Wine Society.
Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount but their £5-6 bottles are much better than than generic supermarket offerings.
I really should buy all my supplies from them but just can't kick the supermarket habit.
Tanners of Shrewsbury is well worth a visit and/or a case delivered.
Will get skewered for this but I just can't have French reds. What is the point of Beaujolais?
Compared to Italian reds of a similar price, particularly the negroamaros and any Puglia grape, they are characterless, thin and unsatisfying.
Always willing to try any recommendations though.
I live 5 miles from the Stevenage showroom (The Cellar) which is the best wine shop you'll ever visit. A big specialist shop full of wonderful wine with permanent free tastings and a vintage room that is just awesome.Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount but their £5-6 bottles are much better than than generic supermarket offerings.
I really should buy all my supplies from them but just can't kick the supermarket habit.
Tanners of Shrewsbury is well worth a visit and/or a case delivered.
Will get skewered for this but I just can't have French reds. What is the point of Beaujolais?
Compared to Italian reds of a similar price, particularly the negroamaros and any Puglia grape, they are characterless, thin and unsatisfying.
Always willing to try any recommendations though.
I do feel that anyone who is a member and lives too far afield misses out rather on this
As far as french wine goes, at it's best its very special indeed. Top quality clarets and burgundies are superb sophisticated stuff albeit at high prices but there's loads of wonderful rich value for money reds from the south west of France. And their whites stand alone.
Nothing wrong with wines from elsewhere of course but France is still the daddy.
(And , yes, ordinary Beaujolais is not for me either, though decent Villages is acceptable )
newlad said:
Pleased to see so many recommendations for the Wine Society.
Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount <snip>
May I disagree with that last statement?Been with them for nearly 20 years and never had a duff bottle.
They rarely discount <snip>
The winesoc regularly has a specialist focus type offer - grower, region, wine type etc. These often contain a discount. Usually modest but I'll take it!
Every year at Christmas (it seems to me) there's a champagne offer, I often take advantage of what amounts to a 6 for 5 offer on Pol Roger. That's usually enough to last a year of family birthdays!
regards,
Jet
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