What's your favourite sandwich filling? Opening a shop soon

[Tickle]

Feta, vine tomato, pulled lamb and olive oil on white crusty bread.

[battered]

Variety. Aside from a few core favourites, you need a constantly changing set of specials. This is because if you go to the same shop 5 days a week you will get so bored you won't believe it. I used to work in a sandwich factory, naturally we had the run of the menu for lunch. Yet we were all bored and only the arrival of that month's special kept us going. People got so bored they started going out for lunch. When you are prepared to traipse across town and buy food rather than eat the free sandwiches, you know that you're bored with the selection.

[omniflow]

Salesy said:

For me its a Cuban,

Roast pork, glazed ham, American mustard and dill pickles in a ciabatta style bread toasted flat. The Bellagio in Las Vegas seven a wicked one.

My take on that is crusty bread with Turkey, ham, pastrami, american mustard and dill pickles. Epic

Or even the Cubano - with that other derivative, the "El Jefe".

Pulled Pork, Ham, Swiss Cheese, sliced dill pickles and some kind of panini style roll toasted in a press. It also needs some kind of dressing - chipotle mayo, mustard, mustard / mayo mix or whatever. MUST be toasted, and the cheese MUST melt.

Without question, the best sandwich in existence.

However, it's all about the detail. It's very easy to make something that resembles a Cubano that is basically not at all nice. It's quite difficult to make a Cubano that will have customers coming back week after week. How thickly do you slice the pickles? What Ham? What Cheese? What bread? What dressing? What ratios? How long do you toast it for? How much pulled pork? How long from placing the order to leaving the shop? How much is it?

It's totally do-able - there's a streetfood stall near where I work that only ever does 2 types of sandwich - the "El Jefe" and something else based on a club sandwich. They are working flat out for 3 hours every lunchtime, selling a £6.50 sandwich at the rate of probably one a minute with 3 people working the stall. But the quality of what they are selling is bang on. No corners cut - at all.

[battered]

omniflow said:

. No corners cut - at all.

So you would bloody hope at £6.50 a pop! In all the places I work this gives you access to the sit-down menus at all the cafes and pubs in the area, not just a sandwich, however nice it may be.

[DeanR32]

Cheers for the replies again

God knows how to multi quote, so I'll just try and remember who said and asked what!

We haven't run anything like this before. This will be my wife and her sisters first little venture.

The problems I can see are when the shop is finally open. As mentioned earlier in the thread, use by dates and quantities on display seem like they'd take some getting used to, to minimise waste. We also can't go over poncey, as I don't think the area it's in will welcome it. Might be completely wrong, but it seems OAP's, school mums and builders will be our target market.

The shop will be in Leigh on Sea (not anywhere near the Broadway though). I'll have to start another thread when it's nearing opening. Of course we will take advantage of social media platforms to maximise exposure.

I reckon getting on the fitness/protein side of things may attract a few more punters. There's plenty of gym heads around here. Image seems to be everything in pockets of the area.

We have been to the council, and they said a couple tables are OK inside and out.

Any more pointers, please send em this way. Advice has been great so far (as to be expected on PH), but the more the merrier

Cheers

[Trabi601]

DeanR32 said:

I make you right.

We will be getting in the shop very soon, and opening Oct/Nov time, so we're thinking of promoting it as a family in thing (which it is) and keeping ingredients as locally sourced as possible. It's situated in a decent spot with plenty of passing trade (thanks to a Nisa just two doors away), and it used to do the same thing, although more focuses on the greengrocer side of things.

Any pointers as to what you think can help make it as success is more than welcome (that goes for everyone).

Cheers for the input so far guys

That would set the alarm bells ringing for me. We have a sandwich shop in our small town in what used to be a kind of sub-post office type place. It has had 3 different owners, all of whom only seemed to last a few months. The latest has lasted longer, but I don't know how, as it never looks that busy - despite there being a very large hospital within walking distance.

What experience do all the parties involved have? - I've previously worked with people who knew the deli business inside out, but had failed shops behind them and ended up being regional specialists for supermarkets.

Even one of the biggest oil companies in the world couldn't make fresh baguettes work profitably.

I think the key is not to believe you're something special - people will buy the odd 'artisan' or 'premium' sandwich as an occasional treat - however, unless you're in a very affluent area, being able to grab a fairly standard sandwich at a decent price point is going to be where the money is made.

Forget the hand carved ham etc., it's time consuming and hugely expensive - and portion control is almost impossible! - this is the other key - controlling portions. If you have a recipe sheet that says one level scoop of chicken in mayo and 3 slices of tomato - you have to be relentless in chasing this down. Do not under-estimate how difficult this can be. A number of years ago, I worked out that a rounded, rather than level scoop of cheese and 2 slices of cheap and nasty pepperoni were the difference between profit and loss on a 9" hand-finished pizza.

Don't try to do too much - sandwich, greengrocer, coffee, bakery - are you spreading yourself too thinly - are you going to deliver something significantly different to the NISA - many small supermarkets offer fresh 'bake off' speciality breads, morning goods and thaw and serve cakes - can you do this better and at a competitive price?

I know a bit about the fresh food industry - and, even when I had a significant inheritance with which to set myself up with my own business, I decided it was a massive gamble I wasn't willing to take.

On the other hand, I do know of one or two people who have made it work.

Good luck - you'll probably need it, but I hope you're one of those who can make it work!

[insurance_jon]

I love the way these guys do sarnie. It's like a posh subway

https://www.philpotts.co.uk/individual.aspx

[ATG]

Coronation chicken.

Pastrami, sauerkraut or dill pickle, mustard.

Rare, cold roast beef and horseradish.

The ultimate king of sandwiches: The BLT.

[battered]

DeanR32 said:

Might be completely wrong, but it seems OAP's, school mums and builders will be our target market.

That's 3 markets, for a start. A friend runs a sandwich shop, she used to rely on white vans at breakfast time, they want bacon rolls, sausages, fried eggs, mugs of tea, and big portions. VAT is payable on hot food, so watch that. She prefers the yummy mummies who come a bit later, they want fancy coffee and nice cakes. Less labour and much higher margins. At lunchtime she gets schoolkids and passing trade. Your OAPs will be part of this. Bear in mind that OAPs don't eat like builders and probably have less money to spend. That's 3 very distinct social groups who want totally different things. I haven't seen many pensioners asking for a Flat Breakfast, have you? (For those who haven't spent time in Leeds, a Flat Breakfast as served in the, erm, less wealthy parts of town, is essantially a full English in an oven bottom cake. It's an enormous concoction and unless you work 12 hours a day as a brickie you are unlikely to make much of a dent in one.)

One thing I remember from being a kid; a neighbour ran a sandwich shop in town. They doubled as a deli, one thing I liked was that you could specify your sandwich and then have a chioce of dressing, coleslaw, etc. So one day you's have coleslaw, another day Waldorf, another day salsa, you get the picture. It's how Subway get round the boredom factor for people who eat at the same shop every day.

[Thankyou4calling]

This being your wife and sisters first venture here is what i suggest you do, and you need to do it fast.

1. She needs to get a job in a sandwich bar, pub, restaurant or similar. Do as much as she can to learn how the business works and it won't be about making amazing sandwiches.

2. Get yourself a basic BP spreadsheet and populate it with realistic figures.

3. Decide on your marketing for the launch, first week, month and quarter.

4. The local council saying it's OK to put a couple of tables outside? Have they put this in writing?

5. All your staff (wife included) will need to have a basic food hygeine certificate and the premises will need to be inspected.

6. Prepare yourself for any staff to be late, lazy and thiefs :-)

7. Keep your offering simple, forget protein shakes and fancy sarnies with smoked this and cured that, there won't be enough demand to make it worth your while (initially)

8. KISS! Brown or white, butter or marge, ham or cheese. This is a more complex form but don't, please try to start with any of the suggested sarnies in this post. it'll be a disaster.

9. The first three months are absolutely critical. Take as much as you can and spend as little as you can, and then spend less.

10. Keep us informed .

TY4C

[All that jazz]

insurance_jon said:

I love the way these guys do sarnie. It's like a posh subway

https://www.philpotts.co.uk/individual.aspx

Prices take the piss. £3 for a cheese savoury triangle or £2.50 for egg & cress? Bonkers. 99p a piece in my local Spar and BP/One Stop and they're both perfectly reasonable quality (not like you can get egg & cress or cheese savoury wrong anyway).

Also, catering for the OAP market is not going to make you any money. OAPs will nurse a cup of tea for hours whilst they clog up your limited seating and take advantage of your free heating, which is the only reason why they're there. Mum's are a PITA as she and little Oliver are guaranteed to only be able to eat some fancy speciality food due to some faux allergy or intolerance and you won't stock what they want. Builders want bacon and egg or sausage and egg in a bun and a brew. That's it.

[Speed 3]

battered said:

VAT is payable on hot food, so watch that.

...and on crisps, canned drink, confectionary etc Make sure they code the till correctly and use the different departments when keying a sale. VAT inspectors are notorious as being the worst of the HMRC bunch. On our first one, I got a can of coke out of the fridge and she said "you are going to declare the VAT on that can aren't you" !!!

Don't make the classic mistake of first timers and "forget" about VAT bills, you are accruing a liability every day and that portion of the takings isn't yours, its on loan to you. I'm amazed how many businesses fail "because of a VAT bill". If you know you are going to be liable for VAT, even if not at first, price your sales accordingly and always put your liability away every month in a reserve account.

Never underestimate the working capital requirements in the opening phase, we had our BP and forecasts pretty nailed but cashflow was still tricky to manage at the beginning.

Oft quoted is 50% of businesses fail in the first year, not surprising really when people don't understand all these basics. Those odds were fine for us as we thought we were smarter than the median and he bank agreed with us, but a lot of people lose their savings or inheritance on fulfilling a "dream".

[technodup]

Thankyou4calling said:

7. Keep your offering simple, forget protein shakes and fancy sarnies with smoked this and cured that, there won't be enough demand to make it worth your while (initially)

Agreed. There's been some amount bks on this thread, unless you're in Shoreditch or Bristol or some other hipster hellhole stick to the basics.

Cheese, ham, chicken and salad. I'd be willing to bet 80% of the sandwiches sold are some combination of the above. Maybe egg mayo. And ham means sliced processed ham, not pulled pork or hand reared, organically fed, ethically slaughtered, hand cut pretentious bks. People want a sandwich ffs, quick and cheap, not a lecture about the ethics of food production. (Unless Shoreditch).

There's a reason every place you go into has the same tubs with the same premade chicken mayo, chicken tikka, coronation chicken selection. It's what sells and what makes money.

[Thankyou4calling]

technodup said:

greed. There's been some amount bks on this thread, unless you're in Shoreditch or Bristol or some other hipster hellhole stick to the basics.

Cheese, ham, chicken and salad. I'd be willing to bet 80% of the sandwiches sold are some combination of the above. Maybe egg mayo. And ham means sliced processed ham, not pulled pork or hand reared, organically fed, ethically slaughtered, hand cut pretentious bks. People want a sandwich ffs, quick and cheap, not a lecture about the ethics of food production. (Unless Shoreditch).

There's a reason every place you go into has the same tubs with the same premade chicken mayo, chicken tikka, coronation chicken selection. It's what sells and what makes money.

This!

It's very easy to start thinking that it's a complicated business and making a sandwich (in fact it'll be a wrap or flat bread) from ethically sourced, organic, local ingredients harvested that morning is what every one want's.

They think they do, but the reality is you are opening a local sandwich shop for local people. Most will walk there or pop in on there way somewhere else, no special journeys.

As an example i used to be involved in the snack (crisps) industry. We launched a myriad of flavours, pretty much a new one every month, Prawn cocktail, Mint sauce, Fish n chips etc as they were just spray on flavours.

Under all this pressure from the new flavours, the top three sellers by a mile were, are and always have been :

1. Ready salted
2. Salt and Vinegar.
3. Cheese and onion.

I know someone will come on here and say they like balsamic Vinegar with sea salt. THAT IS SALT AND VINEGAR.

And it's the same with your sandwiches (initially) Ham, Cheese, Tuna mayo, Chicken.

I'd go so far as to say that every sandwich suggested on this thread will be a disaster and you will be waiting a long time for a pistonheader to come in and buy their Aged, dry cured, wiltshire ham on a bed of fresh rocket, on rye bread. And then they'll want it toasted on a fire lit by ethically sourced wood.

This is quoted from above. My mouth is watering, it will be delicious.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Unfortunately, you wont sell a single one :-)

"Pulled Pork, Ham, Swiss Cheese, sliced dill pickles and some kind of panini style roll toasted in a press. It also needs some kind of dressing - chipotle mayo, mustard, mustard / mayo mix or whatever. MUST be toasted, and the cheese MUST melt.

Without question, the best sandwich in existence."

Meanwhile your core customers, OAPs and schoolkids will be at Tesco express getting a £3 meal deal.

Anyway, I've given enough free advice on here, my normal fee is £750 per day plus VAT :-)

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 16th August 09:47

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 16th August 09:48

Edited by Thankyou4calling on Tuesday 16th August 09:56

[jmorgan]

technodup said:

greed. There's been some amount bks on this thread, unless you're in Shoreditch or Bristol or some other hipster hellhole stick to the basics.

Cheese, ham, chicken and salad. I'd be willing to bet 80% of the sandwiches sold are some combination of the above. Maybe egg mayo. And ham means sliced processed ham, not pulled pork or hand reared, organically fed, ethically slaughtered, hand cut pretentious bks. People want a sandwich ffs, quick and cheap, not a lecture about the ethics of food production. (Unless Shoreditch).

There's a reason every place you go into has the same tubs with the same premade chicken mayo, chicken tikka, coronation chicken selection. It's what sells and what makes money.

Good sandwich can have all that however cheap ingredients with no thought means a crap sandwich no matter what. I would love a good sandwich shop instead of having to buy processed crap at the supermarket, I eat that when I have no choice. e.g. Processed ham is awful in any form and it is easy to get a good cut if you know where to look, nothing fancy, just good ingredients. I get mine from the local market where they cook it up themselves, plain, boiled, roast etc. and sell at the same price that the supermarket that sells you this regurgitated waste that is at least 15% water in many cases. The market version does not need a straw to eat it.

I have always wanted a good sandwich with good ingredients. Only problem I suppose is enough of me in the area to make it work. If you are going to do processed crap then don't bother, the big boys will win.

[Mr Roper]

My sandwich of choice at home is Dairylea spread, ham and cheesy dorritos.

Not sure how that would work in a sandwich shop...I'm just putting it out there.

[Type R Tom]

All good advise from a new business perspective but to be fair the OP did ask for people favorite sandwich!

[ClaphamGT3]

Rare roast beef and horseradish with cucumber and a little bit of rocket in freshly (and thickly) sliced wholemeal

[Kinky]

Chicken and bacon mayo on white bread, with butter

[Type R Tom]

Slightly OT but are use by dates sacrosanct in the food industry on brought in stuff? Just at home half my fridge is out of date and I just use my senses to see if something is edible or not.