Children in restaurants
Discussion
The restaurant is allowed to do it. This will be a plus for some and will put others off. Similarly I will specifically choose a restaurant with a no dogs policy (dogs in restaurants are endemic in the south west).
It is a personal choice if you want to go along with it and if not there are other restaurants you can eat in.
It is a personal choice if you want to go along with it and if not there are other restaurants you can eat in.
21TonyK said:
ecsrobin said:
21TonyK said:
So, am I the odd one out? I don't mean taking young kids to fine dining restaurants but being a bit put off by a restaurant essentially banning children?
I’d say yes. I’d get it if you were wanting to take children or meet people with children but to not go to a restaurant because they don’t allow children in the evening is a bit odd. What surprised me even more was the restaurant in question is in Mallorca and my previous experience of both Spain and France is polar opposite when it comes to family dining.
If it was in the US or UK I might have expected it.
(We've met on threads before where I've talked about Fera in Palma etc.)
number2 said:
21TonyK said:
ecsrobin said:
21TonyK said:
So, am I the odd one out? I don't mean taking young kids to fine dining restaurants but being a bit put off by a restaurant essentially banning children?
I’d say yes. I’d get it if you were wanting to take children or meet people with children but to not go to a restaurant because they don’t allow children in the evening is a bit odd. What surprised me even more was the restaurant in question is in Mallorca and my previous experience of both Spain and France is polar opposite when it comes to family dining.
If it was in the US or UK I might have expected it.
(We've met on threads before where I've talked about Fera in Palma etc.)
HTP99 said:
Case in point, when my grandma took myself and the wife out for lunch, if we had our grandson with us she would take us to the same restaurant as if he wasn't with us, the local independent Italian, as he could behave, converse with us and the staff, didn't sit there on a tablet, didn't make a mess.
Hang on a minute, your grandson is old enough to hold a conversation, but your own grandma is still alive but active enough to take the family out for a meal? That's impressive, not many kids get taken out by their great-great-grandmother!21TonyK said:
number2 said:
21TonyK said:
ecsrobin said:
21TonyK said:
So, am I the odd one out? I don't mean taking young kids to fine dining restaurants but being a bit put off by a restaurant essentially banning children?
I’d say yes. I’d get it if you were wanting to take children or meet people with children but to not go to a restaurant because they don’t allow children in the evening is a bit odd. What surprised me even more was the restaurant in question is in Mallorca and my previous experience of both Spain and France is polar opposite when it comes to family dining.
If it was in the US or UK I might have expected it.
(We've met on threads before where I've talked about Fera in Palma etc.)
We've been there quite a few times now - although only when staying at the Convent. Some pics from our visit last year to keep you going!
I do rate Fera more highly if you're looking for an alternative fine dining venue, but of course Fosh is very good.
As with anything its a series of degrees.
A blanket ban on kids is somewhat daft, and I see here people citing stories of misbehaved kids, I am sure if you thought hard enough you can cite just as many stories of misbehaved adults at restaurants without kids, do we ban all adults too...
I think for an evening meal fine dining should have that option to omit children, kids get ratty and tired later in the evenings and are more likely to misbehave. So I can kind of see that point of view.
There are lots of reasons kids go 'feral' and some times its not because the parents don't care. Even if it appears so to the much less/zero experience in the world of parenting. It is amazing how many people with zero experience raising children think they can cast an eye and make instant judgments on what that parent should be doing.
A blanket ban on kids is somewhat daft, and I see here people citing stories of misbehaved kids, I am sure if you thought hard enough you can cite just as many stories of misbehaved adults at restaurants without kids, do we ban all adults too...
I think for an evening meal fine dining should have that option to omit children, kids get ratty and tired later in the evenings and are more likely to misbehave. So I can kind of see that point of view.
There are lots of reasons kids go 'feral' and some times its not because the parents don't care. Even if it appears so to the much less/zero experience in the world of parenting. It is amazing how many people with zero experience raising children think they can cast an eye and make instant judgments on what that parent should be doing.
The venue wants to create a certain environment so I can see why kids aren't permitted.
Some parents just don't give a s
t how their kids are annoying others in a restaurant or pub. Or they play Peppa Pig really loud on their iPad to shut them up.
GiantEnemyCrab said:
A lot of kidsparents are bellends, maybe they've decided the loss of 1-2 family books isn't worth the arseache of moaning from everyone else?
Yep, but EFA. Some parents just don't give a s
t how their kids are annoying others in a restaurant or pub. Or they play Peppa Pig really loud on their iPad to shut them up.Would love children free restaurants .
Some parents are ste.
Went out with a niece of my wife, her children and her husband. She was totally ineffectual and he was totally disinterested and spent all evening ignoring us and chatting to his mate who he had rudely invited without asking us.
I spent an unpleasant evening trying to control and entertain the young lad but after an hour I gave up just let him go and told her husband to deal with him.
I felt sorry for others in the restaurant but I did my best.
She set boundaries every 10 minutes then failed to enforce them, they knew nothing their parents said would result in any consequences and all the lad wanted is for Dad to pay him some sort of attention.
fking hopeless morons who I won't ever be spending any time with them ever again.
and they expected us to pay.
Fuming wasn't the word.
Some parents are s
te.Went out with a niece of my wife, her children and her husband. She was totally ineffectual and he was totally disinterested and spent all evening ignoring us and chatting to his mate who he had rudely invited without asking us.
I spent an unpleasant evening trying to control and entertain the young lad but after an hour I gave up just let him go and told her husband to deal with him.
I felt sorry for others in the restaurant but I did my best.
She set boundaries every 10 minutes then failed to enforce them, they knew nothing their parents said would result in any consequences and all the lad wanted is for Dad to pay him some sort of attention.
f
king hopeless morons who I won't ever be spending any time with them ever again.and they expected us to pay.
Fuming wasn't the word.
The last two restaurants I've eaten in have had kids up to 16 years old allowed to watch an iPad whilst wearing earpods. None looked under the age of 12.
Now, you may think that that's not a bad thing, why should we listen to them, but I would rather hear the child in a conversation on another table rather than allow a generation to grow up thinking they can watch TV whilst in a proper restaurant.
These weren't cheap Toby inns or McDonalds. these were nice restaurants, one in Balsall Common, Kenilworth, and an Italian in Moseley, Birmingham.
Maybe they have ADHD, I dunno. But I despair for the kids nowadays.
Now, you may think that that's not a bad thing, why should we listen to them, but I would rather hear the child in a conversation on another table rather than allow a generation to grow up thinking they can watch TV whilst in a proper restaurant.
These weren't cheap Toby inns or McDonalds. these were nice restaurants, one in Balsall Common, Kenilworth, and an Italian in Moseley, Birmingham.
Maybe they have ADHD, I dunno. But I despair for the kids nowadays.
number2 said:
Ah of course!
We've been there quite a few times now - although only when staying at the Convent. Some pics from our visit last year to keep you going!
I do rate Fera more highly if you're looking for an alternative fine dining venue, but of course Fosh is very good.
Tempted by Fera, I think I'll speak with the others we are taking. They are "older" so might prefer lunch if we are doing a tasting menu.We've been there quite a few times now - although only when staying at the Convent. Some pics from our visit last year to keep you going!
I do rate Fera more highly if you're looking for an alternative fine dining venue, but of course Fosh is very good.
For a less formal setting, I love this place...
https://molidestorrent.de/en/das-restaurant/
It's not rated but the food is superb and the service is just perfect. I think I'm right in saying its still family run... and they love kids (or at least my two!)
I rarely went out for dinner as a child, and always consider that others might be trying to enjoy the rare occasion they can afford to eat in a restaurant.
So I'm always self conscious that my kid will spoil someone else's meal. Stood outside a lot of restaurants and eaten cold meals (doesn't bother me so much), seems to keep the grandparents happy that they get to spoil them, but can't say I've ever found it an enjoyable experience.
Much prefer the more relaxed environment of a cafe and breakfast.
So I'm always self conscious that my kid will spoil someone else's meal. Stood outside a lot of restaurants and eaten cold meals (doesn't bother me so much), seems to keep the grandparents happy that they get to spoil them, but can't say I've ever found it an enjoyable experience.
Much prefer the more relaxed environment of a cafe and breakfast.
I think it's fine for them to do that as long as it's clear upfront and the policy is applied fairly and consistently. They're taking choices to ensure a certain atmosphere. It's also fine to say, "thanks, but I'm not a fan of adult-only spaces" in response to that. It's only a problem when someone who wants one thing attempts to force that universally everywhere. (cf. the old thing of Mumsnet users review bombing cocktail bars and pubs which dared not to have reserved pram parking and a stack of high chairs ready to wheel out at a moments' notice, or people moaning that a Smith and Western on Saturday afternoon is utter bedlam rather than silent children sat Dickensianly in neat rows spooning their gruel)
Having done moderately fine dining in a hotel with a young one in tow I can sort of see their side of it - even the most well-behaved child struggles against a long, multi-course tasting menu, especially if the restaurant is busy. Unless you start skipping courses most of the food will arrive after their bedtime, and there's a high opportunity for disconnect between what the child thinks looks irresistible and what they will actually eat when it's on the plate. Well-intentioned and attentive a parent may be, but those "no I will definitely like it this time, it's only the way they do it in school dinners" discussions which require carefully navigating between a meltdown now and a meltdown when the fish arrives and tastes like fish still have a habit of going very badly south.
Possibly there's an argument that the better approach is to ask on a case-by-case basis whether the children in the party will comfortably be able to see out 9.30pm with nothing more than civilised conversation and eat anything that's put in front of them, and it's not like there aren't adults who still fail to achieve that, but a blanket policy is no doubt easier to administer than getting into what differing parents consider "reasonable" behaviour and having to have a scene in the restaurant.
Having done moderately fine dining in a hotel with a young one in tow I can sort of see their side of it - even the most well-behaved child struggles against a long, multi-course tasting menu, especially if the restaurant is busy. Unless you start skipping courses most of the food will arrive after their bedtime, and there's a high opportunity for disconnect between what the child thinks looks irresistible and what they will actually eat when it's on the plate. Well-intentioned and attentive a parent may be, but those "no I will definitely like it this time, it's only the way they do it in school dinners" discussions which require carefully navigating between a meltdown now and a meltdown when the fish arrives and tastes like fish still have a habit of going very badly south.
Possibly there's an argument that the better approach is to ask on a case-by-case basis whether the children in the party will comfortably be able to see out 9.30pm with nothing more than civilised conversation and eat anything that's put in front of them, and it's not like there aren't adults who still fail to achieve that, but a blanket policy is no doubt easier to administer than getting into what differing parents consider "reasonable" behaviour and having to have a scene in the restaurant.
Timberwolf said:
Possibly there's an argument that the better approach is to ask on a case-by-case basis whether the children in the party will comfortably be able to see out 9.30pm with nothing more than civilised conversation and eat anything that's put in front of them, and it's not like there aren't adults who still fail to achieve that, but a blanket policy is no doubt easier to administer than getting into what differing parents consider "reasonable" behaviour and having to have a scene in the restaurant.
This is my feeling. At the age of 4 or 5 both my kids would eat anything albeit they didn't really understand what they were eating or appreciate it other than it mainly tasted "yummy". Theres no way I would have sat them through more than 4 courses though. But at the age of 12 or 13 they both were happy to munch their way through a full tasting menu or just eat off the a la carte if we were doing so. Fortunatelty(?) when they were little ipads etc didn't exist so mum and dad had to keep them entertained.21TonyK said:
Completely agree and though I would be in the minority on this one but to me, a restaurant blanket banning under 16's says a lot about their attitude toward customers. Very elitist and I think very old-fashioned.
What surprised me even more was the restaurant in question is in Mallorca and my previous experience of both Spain and France is polar opposite when it comes to family dining.
If it was in the US or UK I might have expected it.
It might be old fashioned but it’s not elitist.What surprised me even more was the restaurant in question is in Mallorca and my previous experience of both Spain and France is polar opposite when it comes to family dining.
If it was in the US or UK I might have expected it.
Maybe wealthy Mallorcans and other Spaniards are no better at parenting than the raise them by iPad crew here? Or the owners just don’t like kids which is fair enough, that’s their prerogative.
Quite a few fine dining restaurants elsewhere in the world will not explicitly ban children but suggest they aren’t welcome. I had a look on the website of one of my favourites and it says “ Please note that …. is a fine dining restaurant. As such, we do not encourage young children to attend.” That allows wiggle room for older kids and some sensible parental discretion and also allows the maître d' to turn away anyone who hasn’t shown the correct judgement. Another says “ We do not cater for children and do not have children’s facilities, high chair’s or menus. If your child will be comfortable in this environment, without disturbing other guests, they are very welcome. We unfortunately do not accommodate children under 5 years”. These seem like more sensible policies to me.
Granadier said:
HTP99 said:
Case in point, when my grandma took myself and the wife out for lunch, if we had our grandson with us she would take us to the same restaurant as if he wasn't with us, the local independent Italian, as he could behave, converse with us and the staff, didn't sit there on a tablet, didn't make a mess.
Hang on a minute, your grandson is old enough to hold a conversation, but your own grandma is still alive but active enough to take the family out for a meal? That's impressive, not many kids get taken out by their great-great-grandmother!HTP99 said:
Granadier said:
HTP99 said:
Case in point, when my grandma took myself and the wife out for lunch, if we had our grandson with us she would take us to the same restaurant as if he wasn't with us, the local independent Italian, as he could behave, converse with us and the staff, didn't sit there on a tablet, didn't make a mess.
Hang on a minute, your grandson is old enough to hold a conversation, but your own grandma is still alive but active enough to take the family out for a meal? That's impressive, not many kids get taken out by their great-great-grandmother!- active
- italian
- cooks her own food
Why isn't she on Pasta Grannies? (its a YT channel). must have a wealth of knowledge worth passing on.
HTP99 said:
Granadier said:
HTP99 said:
Case in point, when my grandma took myself and the wife out for lunch, if we had our grandson with us she would take us to the same restaurant as if he wasn't with us, the local independent Italian, as he could behave, converse with us and the staff, didn't sit there on a tablet, didn't make a mess.
Hang on a minute, your grandson is old enough to hold a conversation, but your own grandma is still alive but active enough to take the family out for a meal? That's impressive, not many kids get taken out by their great-great-grandmother!Restaurant policy or place-restaurant-is-in policy?
their website said:
Remember that the Marc Fosh Restaurant is located in the Hotel Convent de La Misió, which is “adults only”, so children under 16 are not allowed.
Anyway, I think it's great kids are banned from some places and I definitely wouldn't think it's weird that somewhere did.Evanivitch said:
I rarely went out for dinner as a child, and always consider that others might be trying to enjoy the rare occasion they can afford to eat in a restaurant.
Indeed, and have paid for a child minder, perhaps a special occasion. When I was taken out to eat as a child I was told it was a place for adults so I had to behave like one if I wanted to come again. It was fine, we felt a bit grown up. But then people adapted to their environment, rather than expect the environment, and people in it, to adapt to them. More people seem to take their dog with them when going out to eat too.
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