Pentatonic phrasing....

Pentatonic phrasing....

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Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
Getting to the stage of solos. Have the pentatonic patterns down, but Im struggling with getting good phrasing, that doesnt sound like a scale.

Quite like jumping strings, putting bends in ect, but cant quite make a nice 4/5 note run at the minute.

Any hints tips and guys ?

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
Learn modes.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
Mastodon2 said:
Learn modes.
For instance ?

Mastodon2

13,818 posts

164 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
Turn7 said:
For instance ?
Ionian, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian.

It's a different way of looking at the fretboard, instead of saying "I am playing this scale", you're looking at "moods" if you will. By learning to characterise the notes you're choosing against the chordal progression you're playing over, you'll hopefully be able to break out of playing the same old scale fragments and dull pentatonic style that so many guitarists get mired in. Learning to use the modes will open up a world of improvisational soloing and a whole new way of looking at the instrument, and by becoming more familiar with how the notes relate to one another and the music you're playing over, your fingers should start to follow the phrasing you're building in your head, rather than what you're doing at the moment, which is allowing your fingers to autopilot through scale shapes you've learned.

bga

8,134 posts

250 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
Listen to stuff you like & start learning licks & phrases. That will soon get you used to different fingerings and breaking out of the whole scales approach.

vournikas

11,683 posts

203 months

Saturday 19th July 2014
quotequote all
A good analogy is that the scale is the alphabet, and the riffs / licks are the words and sentences. The pentatonic is a great place to start.

The first few bars of Hideaway by Clapton on the Bluesbreakers album is a perfect example (IMVHO) of phrasing using a simple scale (in this intro, the E major pentatonic). Have a listen. The major pentatonic, BTW, is easy to find for a given key as well. Say you're playing in the key of A at the 5th position, the major pentatonic is exactly the same scale shape as the minor but played three positions down (i.e. play a minor pentatonic shape in the 2nd position).

Anyway, this guy has some very good tutorials about exploring and expanding pentatonic ideas.

Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Sunday 20th July 2014
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I wouldn't jump into modes if you're just getting to the stage of beginning to learn pentatonic scales, it's like learning to fly a Cessna then trying to take a jumno jet for a spin.

What we call solos are just notes in & also out of the scale. There are no rules in respect of what you must play, the scale is simply a collection of notes that by general consensus, please the ear. The pentatonic scale & particularly the pentatonic blues scale merely appeals to the western ear in particular & it's roots are in slave songs & ultimately Africa, if you go back far enough, so the whole thing is an accident of history.

Anyway if you want to get on with putting together phrases in the scale, then get on youtube & learn a few classic riffs that use it. Satisfaction, Johnny be goode, whole lotta love etc. It doesn't matter if they're not you're thing, the important stuff is they'll teach you about accenting, moving round the scale, rests, fingering positions, economy of movement - the stuff from which phrasing is constructed.

Once that starts to sink in, then you can much more easily move onto other concepts like soloing with chords which is a great skill, that for example, Johnny Marr is an absolute master of, linking scales, modes & all the rest of it. But I would learn to walk before trying to run.


rich83

14,193 posts

137 months

Sunday 20th July 2014
quotequote all
bga said:
Listen to stuff you like & start learning licks & phrases. That will soon get you used to different fingerings and breaking out of the whole scales approach.
Totally agree. Doing it this way helps and improves your playing so much. Playing along opens your ears up to which 'sounds' work with which harmonies, without needing to know the technicalities/scales/chords. It also helps your general musicianship and ear training.

Fantuzzi

3,297 posts

145 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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rich83 said:
bga said:
Listen to stuff you like & start learning licks & phrases. That will soon get you used to different fingerings and breaking out of the whole scales approach.
Totally agree. Doing it this way helps and improves your playing so much. Playing along opens your ears up to which 'sounds' work with which harmonies, without needing to know the technicalities/scales/chords. It also helps your general musicianship and ear training.
I agree with mimicking the stuff you like. Listen to your favourite solos, get the tabs and look at how they are made up, although if they are all mad 80s shred stuff then that wont help!

Also magazines like guitar techniques are excellent for giving you new ideas on patterns and techniques.

Most of the 70s and 60s greats are very pentatonic and blues scale based - learn that if you haven't as well its basically the minor pentatonic first position with some added goodness - so get listen to some Hendrix, Sabbath zep, maybe not Deep purple as Ritchies neoclassical stuff seeps in!

Post some of your favourite lead guitarists up and maybe we can help find you some sections of solos you can use as examples of phrasing.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
vournikas said:
The major pentatonic, BTW, is easy to find for a given key as well. Say you're playing in the key of A at the 5th position, the major pentatonic is exactly the same scale shape as the minor but played three positions down (i.e. play a minor pentatonic shape in the 2nd position).
Exactly why my tutor is sending me down this route.

Thanks for the input guys. Mt Cyder hits the nail on the head really - Im only at the stage of starting the engine on the Cessna currently!

However.....

Im now really starting to see the appeal of the Boss eband JS10........

Always play thru headphones at home, and am never likely to gig, so it seems to make a lot of sense.

OllyMo

596 posts

211 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
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Turn7 said:
Exactly why my tutor is sending me down this route.

Thanks for the input guys. Mt Cyder hits the nail on the head really - Im only at the stage of starting the engine on the Cessna currently!

However.....

Im now really starting to see the appeal of the Boss eband JS10........

Always play thru headphones at home, and am never likely to gig, so it seems to make a lot of sense.
Rubbish. You'll be good enough before you know it, and it's the most fun you'll have

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
OllyMo said:
Rubbish. You'll be good enough before you know it, and it's the most fun you'll have
Genuinely, I cannot ever see me on stage. To be in the spotlight is anathema to me.

Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
That's the front man's job. Everyone else is supporting cast in the eyes of the punters. Just how it is innit.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Justin -sell me the idea of a JS10 - Im sure you have one ?

Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
They're awesome & I've never been known to lie. smile

In a nutshell, it's an MP3 player with lots of knobs on. It comes preloaded with jam tracks in all kinds of styles. I've ditched them & loaded it up with my bands set. The single most useful thing is it has headphone sockets. I can't overstate how useful this is when you fancy a thrash at midnight & everyone else is in bed.

You can loop sections of songs at the press of a button, slow down or speed up tunes, record your playing & it has the equivalent of an old Boss GT100 fx board built in. I use it without the fx & just plug my pedal board in.

If you think about that for a moment, you could loop your favourite guitar solo & slow it down to 50% whilst keeping it in pitch. That is an amazing tool for developing muscle memory & motor skill son the fret board.

In short, it's so handy to use that I've upped my playing hours per week by about 50%. Wouldn't be without one now, it's by far the best bit of kit I've ever bought.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Im struggling to find a bad thing about it tbh - other than price.

I can see my Vox going on the bay very soon....

Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Keep an eye on the bay, they come up all the time.

Turn7

Original Poster:

23,504 posts

220 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Justin Cyder said:
Keep an eye on the bay, they come up all the time.
OK, cheers.

vournikas

11,683 posts

203 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Justin Cyder said:
They're awesome & I've never been known to lie. smile

In a nutshell, it's an MP3 player with lots of knobs on. It comes preloaded with jam tracks in all kinds of styles. I've ditched them & loaded it up with my bands set. The single most useful thing is it has headphone sockets. I can't overstate how useful this is when you fancy a thrash at midnight & everyone else is in bed.

You can loop sections of songs at the press of a button, slow down or speed up tunes, record your playing & it has the equivalent of an old Boss GT100 fx board built in. I use it without the fx & just plug my pedal board in.

If you think about that for a moment, you could loop your favourite guitar solo & slow it down to 50% whilst keeping it in pitch. That is an amazing tool for developing muscle memory & motor skill son the fret board.

In short, it's so handy to use that I've upped my playing hours per week by about 50%. Wouldn't be without one now, it's by far the best bit of kit I've ever bought.
yikes

That does sound fantastic

Justin Cyder

12,624 posts

148 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
Don't take my word, here's some smelly hippy demoing it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea6Lexo2jG0