Traktor Kontrol Z1

[8bit]

Maybe this should be in the computers and gadgets section?

Anyway, anyone using one of these? I've been DJing with vinyl for about 16 years now and fancied dipping a toe into digital mixing. From what I can make out on the NI website, I should be able to "DJ" with this and Traktor Pro 2, i.e. monitor, play and mix tunes from the computer. I think, if I'm right, I'll need to use the keyboard or mouse to start tracks playing but then fade them in with the Z1, is that right?

[krunchkin]

I have a z2 that I've used about twice and is now gathering dust if you're interested

[GCH]

Assuming you have the computer already., do you have a mixer (unclear from you post, although you mention vinyl)?

If you don't have a mixer, get the Z1. It is effectively a mixer for traktor.
If you do have a mixer, get an X1. This will enable you start/stop/cue etc all from the X1, and then you do the actual mixing in the, er, mixer. With the X1 you dont need to touch the keyboard or mouse- all done from the controller, including selecting tracks.

Edited by GCH on Monday 11th August 18:26

[8bit]

GCH said:

Assuming you have the computer already.
Do you have a mixer (unclear from you post, although you mention vinyl)?

If you don't have a mixer, get the Z1. It is effectively a mixer for traktor.
If you do have a mixer, get an X1. This will enable you start/stop/cue etc all from the X1, and then you do the actual mixing in the, er, mixer. With the X1 you dont need to touch the keyboard or mouse- all done from the controller, including selecting tracks.

Sorry, yes - have computer and mixer already, but the computer is a desktop and sits on the other side of the room to the decks. How does selecting tracks work from the X1? I guess I'd need a really long USB cable to reach from the PC to the X1?

[alangtt]

GCH said:

Assuming you have the computer already., do you have a mixer (unclear from you post, although you mention vinyl)?

If you don't have a mixer, get the Z1. It is effectively a mixer for traktor.
If you do have a mixer, get an X1. This will enable you start/stop/cue etc all from the X1, and then you do the actual mixing in the, er, mixer. With the X1 you dont need to touch the keyboard or mouse- all done from the controller, including selecting tracks.

Edited by GCH on Monday 11th August 18:26

You say selecting tracks? I take it the audio must be turned in digital format and store on the computer?
Is there anyway to use "real vinyl" and also the Traktor setup (save a lot of effort converting)

Genuine question.

[8bit]

alangtt said:

You say selecting tracks? I take it the audio must be turned in digital format and store on the computer?
Is there anyway to use "real vinyl" and also the Traktor setup (save a lot of effort converting)

Genuine question.

I understand there is hardware available to allow you to use timecoded vinyl - basically a record with no music on it, just a timing signal, this controls the tempo of the digital music playing through the software and allows one to mix it in the traditional way, on a turntable, in a set comprising digital and vinyl-based tracks. I can't say for sure what hardware that requires though, I'm just starting to look at this stuff now.

[8bit]

Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered the Z1 with the free copy of Pro 2. Showing as out of stock at the moment so hopefully they get more in soon.

[Squirrelofwoe]

8bit said:

I understand there is hardware available to allow you to use timecoded vinyl - basically a record with no music on it, just a timing signal, this controls the tempo of the digital music playing through the software and allows one to mix it in the traditional way, on a turntable, in a set comprising digital and vinyl-based tracks. I can't say for sure what hardware that requires though, I'm just starting to look at this stuff now.

I use Traktor Scratch Pro a fair bit.

It requires an external Traktor Scratch certified audio interface (Traktor A6 / A10 etc), in my case my mixer (a Denon x1600) has a Traktor Scratch certified soundcard built-in, and there are other similar mixers available (although a fair bit more expensive than just buying the Traktor A6/A10 interfaces).

The interface (in my case the one built into my mixer) connects to my laptop via usb. My turntables then connect to my mixer via standard RCA leads. The timecode vinyl then plays on the turntable like a normal vinyl record, except it is simply delivering a timecode signal (for track position) which is applied to whichever digital track is loaded onto the relevant virtual deck within the software- hence giving you vinyl control over digital tracks.

You can then add in extra controllers to facilitate track loading, play/cue, looping, hot-cues etc- but these aren't technically necessary as you can perform all of these functions on the laptop through mouse / keyboard shortcuts.

If you are using one of the audio interfaces rather than a mixer with one built-in you would connect the interface to your computer via usb. You would have RCA leads going from your turntables into your audio interface (inputs). Then you would run RCA cables from your audio interface (outputs) into the 2 separate channels on your mixer.

This can be any mixer whatsoever, but should you have a mixer with midi capabilities you should be able to 'map' certain functions on the mixer to control certain aspects of the software- but that is getting beyond the basic setup principles.

Once the hardware is connected, the software (Traktor in this case) needs to be configured- this is done in the audio setup section of the preferences. There are online guides showing (on Native Instruments site) showing you how to configure the various audio interfaces within the software- but they are all very straight forward, but not very immediately obvious.

Hope some of that is of use to you

[Squirrelofwoe]

alangtt said:

Is there anyway to use "real vinyl" and also the Traktor setup (save a lot of effort converting)

If you have a Traktor Scratch setup using timecode vinyl (as described in more detail above) you can easily take the timecode record off and stick a normal vinyl record on and it should be routed through to your mixer in much the same way.

I know this works for me (with my audio interface built into the mixer) and is something I do regularly, however if you are using an external audio interface there might be some kind of 'through' switch/setting to set in order to this, I'm not 100% sure.

But while you are playing a normal vinyl record this is completely separate from the software (think of it as being 100% analogue for the purposes of this explanation), and so none of the software controllers can have any impact on the music source.

If you wish to manipulate the the music using any kind of software controller then you would have to first record the vinyl track into a digital format, and then load that song into the software. The midi controllers can only effect a track that is first loaded into the software- and therefore in digital format.

[8bit]

Squirrelofwoe said:

... lots of useful stuff...

Thanks, that was very helpful. So if you're playing a mix of tunes on regular vinyl and digital tunes via the timecode then I guess the audio interface handles the difference in output level? Obviously the output of a turntable phono connection is much lower than the line-level output that I assume the interface sends?

Also, I have a little Pioneer DJM-300, if I was to use one of these interfaces with it then I could add something like the Kontrol X1 to give the MIDI control you mention?

Cheers!

[Squirrelofwoe]

8bit said:

Thanks, that was very helpful. So if you're playing a mix of tunes on regular vinyl and digital tunes via the timecode then I guess the audio interface handles the difference in output level? Obviously the output of a turntable phono connection is much lower than the line-level output that I assume the interface sends?

Also, I have a little Pioneer DJM-300, if I was to use one of these interfaces with it then I could add something like the Kontrol X1 to give the MIDI control you mention?

Cheers!

Well Traktor has an 'auto-gain' feature so it sets the level itself (for the digital tracks), then you can obviously adjust it further using the gain on the actual mixer.

If I then stick an actual vinyl on, it effectively bypasses the software altogether- it simply sends the analogue source to my mixer so I can use the mixer's gain to keep the levels consistent.

As I said before I'm not 100% sure on whether you need to activate a 'through' switch on the audio interface when swapping between timecode/real vinyl (digital/analogue) but it should definitely be possible as it's exactly what I do on my mixer.

Even when using timecode vinyl (digital) the channels that the turntables are plugged into are still set to 'Phono' so coupled with Traktor's auto-gain on the digital tracks there really isn't much difference in level when swapping sources (if any), it just depends on the individual record used.

So yes in your situation I'm the audio interface would still be sending a 'phono' signal (this would be configured as part of the audio setup process), and so would be connected to your mixer via the Phono inputs. The A6 & A10 have a grounding point on the interface chassis to connect the turntable grounding cables.

And yes regarding your second question, any additional controller would simply plug directly into your laptop- this is where having several usb ports is handy, or a usb hub (make sure it is powered). So in a typical setup you would have one usb port connected to your audio interface, and two other ports connected to a controller each (one for each deck).

In this example you would have a turntable for each deck (providing the timecode signal) connected to your mixer, and a midi controller for each deck (say an X1) to control cue/play/loading/looping/hot-cue controls which would both be connected to your laptop.

That way you would end up with a turntable & an X1 for Traktor deck A, and a turntable & X1 for Traktor deck B. Obviously you could also just use a single X1 and have one half mapped to Deck A and one half mapped to Deck B. The beauty of midi is that is so customizable.

I actually don't use any X1 style controllers in my setup as I also have 2 Denon sc2900 media players (like high-end CDJs) that are normally always connected to my DJ laptop. This means I can play tracks using the timecode vinyl on my turntables, but also use the play/cue/looping/loading/hot-cue controls on my CD decks at the same time.



Alternatively you could look at the Reloop RP8000 turntable which has a midi section of buttons built in to the turntable, allowing you map cue points etc directly to that and thus saving the need to have external controllers- not cheap though!

Edited by Squirrelofwoe on Friday 15th August 16:35

[GCH]

8bit said:

Thanks, that was very helpful. So if you're playing a mix of tunes on regular vinyl and digital tunes via the timecode then I guess the audio interface handles the difference in output level? Obviously the output of a turntable phono connection is much lower than the line-level output that I assume the interface sends?

Also, I have a little Pioneer DJM-300, if I was to use one of these interfaces with it then I could add something like the Kontrol X1 to give the MIDI control you mention?

Cheers!

You have a direct thru setting if you want to play real vinyl instead of timecode.
Alternatively use the multicores (although the NI multicores used to be ridiculously unreliable). That way you just flick between line (digital files) and phono (real vinyl) on the channels on your mixer.
The audio 6 package with scratch pro 2 is somewhere around the £250 mark iirc and that will give you this facility.


The X1 is superb , easy to use and very reliable, hence my earlier recommendation.


The question is, how complex, advanced and nerdy do you want to get with this? It can be as simple or as complex as you want it to be (and believe me, it can get really complex)

Edited by GCH on Friday 15th August 17:46

[8bit]

Thanks all, very useful. Squirrel, that's an impressive setup there!

GCH, I want to keep it simple (and inexpensive) at the moment but will see how I get on! My Z1 should be here tomorrow.

One question (open to anyone) about the X1 - should one have one of these per deck? I thought one in total would be enough.

[sp222]

Hey - in answer to a couple of questions on this one:

X1 will control 2 decks - you're looking at transport controls, track browsing, effects etc for each side) - it's set up to do this out of the box (A&B)

If you're running Traktor (usually Scratch Pro) with one of our (I work for Native Instruments) interfaces (or the certified Denon mixer as above), you can change track decks to 'Live Input' so you run actual audio through that channel and you can then EQ, Filter or apply effects as you can from normal track decks (you go to settings and then 'Deck Flavor' (- forgive the americanism) and select 'Live input' - you may have to check the routing. as an example, i've used this recently on decks C&D playing older vinyl tracks and having my regular music collection as MP3's on A&B.

On the Z1 - we're running a promo with free Traktor Pro 2 until end of August, but remember it also works nicely with Traktor Dj on iPad too (we will have a lightning cable in the box before end of the year) - and a cool tip to use transport controls on the Z1 - if you hold down 'Mode' and then press 'A' or 'B' next to headphone icon, this starts or stops that particular deck.

Cheers

[Miguel Alvarez]

Bit late to the party but from what I've read Traktor has improved over the years. I'm a die hard Serato fan for what it's worth. As a hip hop dj it's perfect for the job.

[Squirrelofwoe]

Miguel Alvarez said:

Bit late to the party but from what I've read Traktor has improved over the years. I'm a die hard Serato fan for what it's worth. As a hip hop dj it's perfect for the job.

I've only used Serato a couple of times but was very impressed with it when I did. For what I use software for, I found the only significant differences between the two were in terms of layout. In the end I went with Traktor purely because I already owned a Traktor Certified mixer so it saved me a ton of money not having to buy an interface!

Otherwise I literally could have tossed a coin to decide which of the two to get, and I'd have been more than happy either way.

And Steve- thanks for clarifying a couple of the points I was trying to explain above. As Pistonheads is probably a bit of a backwater as far as DJ equipment related topics go , and therefore anything mentioned here will almost certainly go under the radar... can you give us any clue on what might be in the pipeline from NI?!

[8bit]

sp222 said:

Hey - in answer to a couple of questions on this one:

X1 will control 2 decks - you're looking at transport controls, track browsing, effects etc for each side) - it's set up to do this out of the box (A&B)

If you're running Traktor (usually Scratch Pro) with one of our (I work for Native Instruments) interfaces (or the certified Denon mixer as above), you can change track decks to 'Live Input' so you run actual audio through that channel and you can then EQ, Filter or apply effects as you can from normal track decks (you go to settings and then 'Deck Flavor' (- forgive the americanism) and select 'Live input' - you may have to check the routing. as an example, i've used this recently on decks C&D playing older vinyl tracks and having my regular music collection as MP3's on A&B.

On the Z1 - we're running a promo with free Traktor Pro 2 until end of August, but remember it also works nicely with Traktor Dj on iPad too (we will have a lightning cable in the box before end of the year) - and a cool tip to use transport controls on the Z1 - if you hold down 'Mode' and then press 'A' or 'B' next to headphone icon, this starts or stops that particular deck.

Cheers

Cool, thanks for the clarifications and the tip! Does the licence key for Traktor come in the box with the Z1? I ordered last week, should be delivered today, but didn't get any emails with the licence or instructions on how to download etc.?

[Miguel Alvarez]

At the time the forums suggested that Serato was basic but stable and Traktor was flashy but proned to crash once in a while. How much of that was user error I don't know. I got the impression Hip Hop dj's went for Serato and House dj's went for Traktor so I admittedly followed the crowd if I'm being honest.

The only thing I would like to see in Serato would be a virtual EQ. I like that you set the gain level on a song and loop points etc and they all remain embedded in the file. If you could add/cut trebs/mids/bass instead of having to pre do this in another programme it would be perfect.

[Squirrelofwoe]

Miguel Alvarez said:

At the time the forums suggested that Serato was basic but stable and Traktor was flashy but proned to crash once in a while. How much of that was user error I don't know. I got the impression Hip Hop dj's went for Serato and House dj's went for Traktor so I admittedly followed the crowd if I'm being honest.

This was very much my thoughts at the time too. Certainly both the people who's Serato setup I used spin hip-hop, and everyone I know who uses Traktor spins predominantly electronic music of some sort. Not sure there is any particular reason for it, as I would have got on just fine playing house/trance/d&b etc on Serato- but yeah I conformed to the trend too!

Yeah I'm certain any stability issues (with either software) are down to the hardware in 99% of cases- or at least how the hardware is configured. Both me and a mate run Traktor Scratch & Pro on £450 Acer laptops with latency well below the default setting and have yet to experience so much as a glitch, let alone a crash, in 12 months. Yet you read the forums and some people are having numerous audio drop-outs or crashes on £2k Macbook Pros.

I guess with any piece of software there are always going to be conflicts with certain hardware setups, and many will simply lay the blame with the software itself.

[Miguel Alvarez]

For me the hip hop dj is more about the showman ship. Scratching, beat juggling etc so a stripped down software such as serato fits the bill. EDM djs from my experience are about taking the listener on a musical journey so the more effects the better.

When listening to electronic music I quite like hearing the phlange kick in and other effects but can't say I want to hear that in a hip hop mix. Then I just want to hear some cuts.

Massive stereotyping.