Bass Amps

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davidd

Original Poster:

6,443 posts

283 months

Sunday 26th April 2015
quotequote all
Question about Bass amps.
Our Bass player currently just DIs into the desk. We think he needs an amp so he can start to mess about with his sound a bit. All this is good but we currently mic everything else. I've never stuck a mic infront of a bass speaker, is there anything specific we should be aware of?
Any thoughts on a decent 30-50w bass amp?
Thanks

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 26th April 2015
quotequote all
davidd said:
Any thoughts on a decent 30-50w bass amp?
Thanks
You seem to have some zeroes missing. wink

Bass amplification is a bit different to guitar amplification in that you really don't want to get distortion out of the amplifier - it's useful in a very limited set of circumstances, but that's what pedals are for.

What you need is an amplifier with a lot of "headroom" so that it can be as loud as any guitar amps on stage but still completely clean.

I'd be looking at something of this sort of size:

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Warwick-...

To start out with - 150w and 1x15".

When I've roadied we've paired a single Fender Hot Rod Deluxe guitar amp (45w) with an Ampeg SVT bass stack that outputs around 300w through a pair of 4x10" cabinets. That resulted in a reasonably balanced sound when we did gigs that only had a vocal PA.

davidd

Original Poster:

6,443 posts

283 months

Sunday 26th April 2015
quotequote all
davepoth said:
You seem to have some zeroes missing. wink

Bass amplification is a bit different to guitar amplification in that you really don't want to get distortion out of the amplifier - it's useful in a very limited set of circumstances, but that's what pedals are for.

What you need is an amplifier with a lot of "headroom" so that it can be as loud as any guitar amps on stage but still completely clean.

I'd be looking at something of this sort of size:

http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Warwick-...

To start out with - 150w and 1x15".

When I've roadied we've paired a single Fender Hot Rod Deluxe guitar amp (45w) with an Ampeg SVT bass stack that outputs around 300w through a pair of 4x10" cabinets. That resulted in a reasonably balanced sound when we did gigs that only had a vocal PA.
Aha, that makes a lot of sense thanks very much.

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
To echo Dave - you need a lot more grunt for bass than you do guitar to carry.

Either your band isn't very loud or you have a cracking PA with decent subs and well mixed foldback to DI bass and be happy with it. There are a number of options that don't require an amp to keep with your current setup.

What sound(s) is he after? Is your bassist the one who wants change or are the rest of you unhappy with his flubby tone through the PA?

I run a Markbass head into a Barfaced cab - amp is rated @ 500W, cab 1200W RMS... way more than I'll ever need in a pub setting. In front of that I've a rack unit (Avid Eleven Rack) that I've set patches up for our various covers - mostly I use a classic rock sound (Apmeg-ish) and for a few tracks a metally sound and a fat phased sound for a couple of mellower tracks. It rack is overkill but is very flexible.

Both rack and amp have DI capability which is only used at bigger venues with their own PA.

If you're looking to shape your bassists tone or add a little grit to his tone you might look at something like the SansAmp DI range - the parametric EQ on it is really good and the grit you can dial in plus blend of clean and driven signal it's pretty much all you really need for that side of things.

davidd

Original Poster:

6,443 posts

283 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
IainT said:
To echo Dave - you need a lot more grunt for bass than you do guitar to carry.

Either your band isn't very loud or you have a cracking PA with decent subs and well mixed foldback to DI bass and be happy with it. There are a number of options that don't require an amp to keep with your current setup.

What sound(s) is he after? Is your bassist the one who wants change or are the rest of you unhappy with his flubby tone through the PA?

I run a Markbass head into a Barfaced cab - amp is rated @ 500W, cab 1200W RMS... way more than I'll ever need in a pub setting. In front of that I've a rack unit (Avid Eleven Rack) that I've set patches up for our various covers - mostly I use a classic rock sound (Apmeg-ish) and for a few tracks a metally sound and a fat phased sound for a couple of mellower tracks. It rack is overkill but is very flexible.

Both rack and amp have DI capability which is only used at bigger venues with their own PA.

If you're looking to shape your bassists tone or add a little grit to his tone you might look at something like the SansAmp DI range - the parametric EQ on it is really good and the grit you can dial in plus blend of clean and driven signal it's pretty much all you really need for that side of things.
More interesting stuff thanks. I don't think he'll want that level of complexity yet.

We are not massively loud, although have a few things coming up that will need more volume. Typically we play in rooms that can take a couple of hundred and have no real issue filling the place with sound. Bill (the bass player) only moved to bass last year so is on a bit of a mission re kit. Going through the pa has been ok to this point as it has been more about him learning the bass lines. Now he is at the point where he wants to start shaping tone. Someone else recommended a
http://www.andertons.co.uk/bass-combos/pid30798/ci...
Which looks interesting. I would think that 250w would be fine (I run a 30w guitar amp). Any thoughts?

D

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
that's cheap and cheerful. It's unlikely to give killer tone at volume. You do get what you pay for.

DO you have a budget in mind or it is 'as cheap as possible'? Size, weight?

Something like the Markbass
CMD 121P: http://markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=41
or
CMD 121H: http://markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=40

will be more flexible - ability to add an extension cab to go from 300W to 500W...

If budget allows a lightweight head and Barefaced Super Midget or Super Compact would be enough for most situation... http://barefacedbass.com/product-range.htm

Lots of other option but I'm a fan of lightweight quality kit that fits in a car boot and doesn't require roadies!

davidd

Original Poster:

6,443 posts

283 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
IainT said:
that's cheap and cheerful. It's unlikely to give killer tone at volume. You do get what you pay for.

DO you have a budget in mind or it is 'as cheap as possible'? Size, weight?

Something like the Markbass
CMD 121P: http://markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=41
or
CMD 121H: http://markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=40

will be more flexible - ability to add an extension cab to go from 300W to 500W...

If budget allows a lightweight head and Barefaced Super Midget or Super Compact would be enough for most situation... http://barefacedbass.com/product-range.htm

Lots of other option but I'm a fan of lightweight quality kit that fits in a car boot and doesn't require roadies!
All very fair. Not sure of budget as it is not me buying it. The MarkBass stuff looks good. I'll give him some options.
Really appreciate the input, thanks.

D

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
No worries - not getting the right stuff from the outset is expensive. I ended up buying cabs 3 times to get to where I am now. The Markbass cabs I have are good but relegated to practice.

Tom_C76

1,923 posts

187 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Our new bassist is using a 300W amp into a 4x10 and thinks he needs a 1x15 cab too. That's to keep up at rehearsals with 2x 50W plexis and a 100W DSL.

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
Tom_C76 said:
Our new bassist is using a 300W amp into a 4x10 and thinks he needs a 1x15 cab too. That's to keep up at rehearsals with 2x 50W plexis and a 100W DSL.
I think he's probably wrong unless you're doing a lot of stuff below B! Do the guitars have a lot of bottom end in? Get them to dial a bit out.

On the bass... take a bit of low-end out and boost upper-mids. Soloed bass sound versus what works in the mix is a bit contrary at times.

I can see the thinking that leads to a bigger speaker potentially giving more solid lows but the reality is often not the case - design of cab and quality of components is more important.

Getting a 4x10 and 1x15 to play nicely together is likely to be a challenge unless designed as a set or carefully chosen.

Worth him asking the guys over on basschat.co.uk though - some really smart people on there with a lot of experience who could help out.

dojo

741 posts

134 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
The Mark Bass is good for the price although if you normally mic up everything at gigs then the bass amp with most likely be DI'd...

You could save some £££ and get an amp sim/preamp for him to DI through. ALl depends on what type of stuff you're doing - I like my bass to be quite clean as effects etc can muddy the sounds and it lacks punch.

Also look at the Ashdown stuff

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
dojo said:
Also look at the Ashdown stuff
Impressed with a smallish 1x15 I tried out at a gig but it's not lightweight enough. Tone is decent but there is other stuff that's better in my limited experience.

Tom_C76

1,923 posts

187 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
IainT said:
Tom_C76 said:
Our new bassist is using a 300W amp into a 4x10 and thinks he needs a 1x15 cab too. That's to keep up at rehearsals with 2x 50W plexis and a 100W DSL.
I think he's probably wrong unless you're doing a lot of stuff below B! Do the guitars have a lot of bottom end in? Get them to dial a bit out.

On the bass... take a bit of low-end out and boost upper-mids. Soloed bass sound versus what works in the mix is a bit contrary at times.

I can see the thinking that leads to a bigger speaker potentially giving more solid lows but the reality is often not the case - design of cab and quality of components is more important.

Getting a 4x10 and 1x15 to play nicely together is likely to be a challenge unless designed as a set or carefully chosen.

Worth him asking the guys over on basschat.co.uk though - some really smart people on there with a lot of experience who could help out.
It's Ashdown gear and there is a 1x15 to match the stuff he's got. In honesty I think we're getting a better mix every week, in part because we had about 3 months of rehearsing without a bassist. Doesn't help that the drummer bought a DW kit with a 24" bass drum in it, that thing thuds...

davidd

Original Poster:

6,443 posts

283 months

Tuesday 28th April 2015
quotequote all
Tom_C76 said:
It's Ashdown gear and there is a 1x15 to match the stuff he's got. In honesty I think we're getting a better mix every week, in part because we had about 3 months of rehearsing without a bassist. Doesn't help that the drummer bought a DW kit with a 24" bass drum in it, that thing thuds...
We bought our drummer an electronic kit, it was the only way to keep the levels in control..

HOGEPH

5,249 posts

185 months

Wednesday 29th April 2015
quotequote all
davidd said:
We bought our drummer an electronic kit, it was the only way to keep the levels in control..
I used to gig with a fairly high end electric kit, still ended up buying another acoustic kit. They are alright, lightweight and convenient for plugging straight into the PA, but they just don't feel the same, and lack the dynamics and presence of a real kit.

chevy-stu

5,392 posts

227 months

Wednesday 29th April 2015
quotequote all
It's a compromise of what budget, transportation and size realities and what sound and volume you want to achieve.
There's so much equipment available now it's really worth goiing somewhere to try a few different things, and asking about trialling it a rehearsal as it'll sound very different in the shop than at volume with a band.

Whilst it's hugely popular I personally find the Markbass stuff a little flat and like livelier valve driven pre amp sounds.

Most bass amps will have a balanced xlr output to di into pa, but you can mic up as well, usually sound guys won't bother at most venues.
A seperate pre amp style pedal/DI like the Sansamp or MXR bassdriver are worth looking into if often gigging using house backline and want to have your 'sound'.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Wednesday 29th April 2015
quotequote all
Tom_C76 said:
Our new bassist is using a 300W amp into a 4x10 and thinks he needs a 1x15 cab too. That's to keep up at rehearsals with 2x 50W plexis and a 100W DSL.
Are you Francis Rossi?

wink

That's a lot of guitar amp, especially for a practice room.

IainT

10,040 posts

237 months

Thursday 30th April 2015
quotequote all
davepoth said:
Tom_C76 said:
Our new bassist is using a 300W amp into a 4x10 and thinks he needs a 1x15 cab too. That's to keep up at rehearsals with 2x 50W plexis and a 100W DSL.
Are you Francis Rossi?

wink

That's a lot of guitar amp, especially for a practice room.
It is if it's running hard - ear plugs a must if you don't want to go deaf!