Help me with my guitar 'playing' please.

[budfox]

Hi all.

I'm a rare visitor to the music forum but there seem to be many knowledgeable people here.

In short I've been trying to learn (electric) guitar for many years and I'm getting nowhere. When I got my guitar I worked through some simple lesson books and indeed had a few lessons. After a few months I could play a good selection of open chords, some basic barre chords and generally strum away to a few songs.

Roll forward 15 years and I can still do just that. I've had a few more lessons and tried the usual websites/youtube (Justin Guitar and good old Marty Schwartz etc...), but I've no idea how to progress.

I'm stuck in 'boring chord hell' but now I have plenty of time to learn, and this time I'm determined to get better. I just don't know how...

Thanks for any help.

Steve

[dojo]

What style of music do you like??

Personally I'd learn all 5 shapes of your pentatonic scale and look into CAGED system, once you can relate your pentatonic to a chord shape then it's easy to look to embellished chords etc.

I'd also pick some classic songs you like and learn the solos etc but importantly learning the harmony context (what chord they are playing over) once you have a few licks and phrases you like you can then think oh there's really nice hendrix embellishment/lick over a G chord I'm playing an A so I'm just going to move it up 2 frets... Understand CAGED just makes this loads more flexible and usable.

[budfox]

Oh hell I posted a big long reply and it all went wrong.

Here's the shortened version: Popular music that everyone knows. A bit of Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel, Adele, Neil Diamond.... The sort of tunes that Justin Guitar teaches really.

I'd like to be able to strum some popular songs and make them sound better than just boring old strumming. I'd also like to play a few 'Rock God' solos one day :-)

[ehonda]

Are you sure you're not where you want to be? The music you've listed sounds like boring chord hell to me

If you're having lessons then you should be progressing, do you need a new teacher or a new focus on your lessons?

Time to start listening to some blues!

[lunarscope]

Why don't you go back to JustinGuitar ?
He has loads of lessons/practice plans on his site.
Also style modules such as blues, folk, finger style, etc.

[budfox]

Yes, I have been giving Justin Guitar another go and I'm also looking at the technicalities of blues playing. That does seem a good starting point.

I also bought a Zoom G1 so that I can record little loops and then play over the top of them to help my timing and understanding of the fretboard.

Determined to get better now...

[Mr M]

There's casual strumming and there's very good rhythmic strumming. Timing is one thing people often overlook when playing instruments. Strumming a guitar can be fantastic in the right hands. Just a suggestion - having some software on your PC that can generate some drum loops for you to work on your timing whilst strumming can be very helpful. When you get good at that you can add melodies between the chords. Keep it simple but in time and then gradually increase the level of complexity.

[Chimune]

Perhaps give the chords a break and learn how to improvise the pentatonics over some standard rock / blues. Pretty easy to sound like you know what you are doing which makes you feel better.

[vournikas]

budfox said:

I'm also looking at the technicalities of blues playing. That does seem a good starting point.

For me, it's the best starting point.

Learning the minor pentatonic scale opens up pretty much the whole guitar world to you. It's easy to learn, easy to play, and can be the foundation for soloing over thousands of tunes. It's also simple enough to start learning intervals with it i.e. the relationship between a minor 3rd and the dominant 5th, or the root note and a dominant 7th for example. Another example, if you're into acoustic stuff, would be practicing Travis Picking. It's a technique that sounds really good even using "cowboy" chords.

You've also got to want to play the guitar, no matter what the genre / style / speed of playing etc. Focus on what you want from your guitar, and what style of music you want to play along to. Don't piss-arse around the edges

Personally, when I started some 25 years ago all I wanted to do was play some Zep, Sabbath, and Purple. I quickly found out that I needed to learn the minor pentatonic scale first, then it all followed on from there. Then again, I've always been more orientated towards rock guitar despite my first lessons being Spanish Classical.

[TheExcession]

budfox said:

I'm stuck in 'boring chord hell' but now I have plenty of time to learn, and this time I'm determined to get better. I just don't know how...

Thanks for any help.

Steve

I've not heard you play but from your post it seems a bit like I was years ago (I'm still there by the way my right hand just cannot keep time with my left hand it's so frustrating!)

One of the youtube channels I find utterly absorbing is Siggi Merten's guitar tutorials. (Mainly because he focuses on the song not the 'theory')

He has a teaching style that really works with me, basically play a (big) part of the song and then go back over it slowly explaining what his fingers were doing. As a learner, just pause it as he goes along, learn it, then spend the next few months trying to replicate it all in real time

He's done a heap of songs, just search youtube siggi with your song name, from the musical interests you stated there will likely be a heap of stuff in there to get you working at it all.

Here's (what I think) is a very good one to get you going:

I think everyone should watch this one, So easy to bodge, really hard to get right, but no discussion of the technicalities of scales and chord structures.

As many here have said, unless you've got a really good ear (and I haven't) then learning some music theory will never do you any harm. What I like about Siggi is that he spends a bit of time describing what his right hand is doing.

Here's another good one;

While my guitar gently weeps Guitar Lesson by Siggi Mertens


Steve, really hope you can find some things there that will get you going.

[audidoody]

Perhaps consider getting your basic scales and chords down on a good acoustic.

An electric gutar involves a whole world of techniques relating to manipulating the characteristics of the sound and tone from both the guitar and the amp (e.g. distortion,feedback, generating harmonics, volume swells, pickup selection, sustain, pull-offs string bends etc etc)

I played the acoustic for years before I picked up an electric. It was lie starting from scratch and took more years of practice, understanding tone to even begin to become adept - in one style.

[Tom_C76]

I'm going to go right out on a limb here and say forget the scales and learning to solo. Concentrate instead on getting your rhythm playing right, which is as much about right hand work as it is fretboard mastery.

Try some 12 bar. Could be blues, could be rock and roll. Could be a lot heavier stuff like Quo or Ted Nugent. But if you can get to grips with playing 12 bar you're then set to go off and jam with other musicians which is the best way to improve IMHO.

When we're trying to pad out a set it's always the easiest place to start. Johnnie B Goode, Caroline, Cat Scratch Fever, Rock and Roll (the Led Zepp one), Rocks (Primal Scream). They're all based on a 12 bar underneath, some closer to it than others. It also sounds like it would take your playing in a different direction and allow you to concentrate on what your right hand is doing as the left hand is normally power chords.

[otolith]

That's where I was. I had picked up a guitar in my early twenties, learnt a bit, and then just stagnated. I got some lessons. I improved more in six months than I had in the previous decade. I still wouldn't consider myself a good guitar player, and probably never will be - I don't practice enough, and it doesn't come naturally to me - but I'm good enough to amuse myself.

I think the most fun thing I did with my tutor was the 12 bar blues - learn an easy chord progression and a simple scale and then take turns to play rhythm or improvise lead and just enjoy how right it sounds.

[Tonsko]

I've been trying for years on and off as well, and (personally") have nailed the problem down to the rhythm of my strumming arm. Now! You may think that my right hand was well used to a rhythmic action. And you'd be right. However getting it loose enough to actually provide a consistent strumming time (and getting the up/down strike to connect with the strings to make the right 'noise') is a real bind. But I guess this would improve with practice.

[kiseca]

budfox said:

Yes, I have been giving Justin Guitar another go and I'm also looking at the technicalities of blues playing. That does seem a good starting point.

I also bought a Zoom G1 so that I can record little loops and then play over the top of them to help my timing and understanding of the fretboard.

Determined to get better now...

I was where you were for years. Justin Guitar's Blues Lead series (BL 010 to 019 or something) opened up a whole new world. Half an hour a night and in a couple of months I could improvise a melody over the top of whatever song happened to be playing. Not a quality melody but enough to make guitar playing fun again.

His blues lead series vanished from youtube some time ago but I think you can still get to it at justinguitar.com.

[les3002]

Another +1 for justinguitar, his courses have all the structure you could ever ask for. Check out his beginners course consolidation, if you can do all that, have a look at his intermediate course, he starts looking more in depth at 12 bar blues and the like there. After you've finished with that move onto his blues style module.

I've found that it's just sheer practise time that helps me, just keep plugging away at something until eventually it clicks. Finding other people to jam with has been a great help too, forcing me to learn songs all the way through (rather than just the riffs!) and really polish the performace on them.

[budfox]

Sorry all, been ignoring this thread.

Thanks for all of the advice, I'm certainly giving things a better attempt now.

[red997]

I'd suggest playing some tunes you enjoy - nothing worse than thinking I want to improve, but I don't know how...
what are your weaknesses ?
What do you want to play ?
Focusing on where you want to get to can help.

I've been playing for 35 years (inc professionally) and you never stop learning, progressing - hell I worked out a progression in seconds a couple of days ago that I just could not master 10 years ago - it became intuitive;

Try not to focus on the tech (it can be all encompassing these days) and listen to the guitar

Above all enjoy it - and don't stress - we all hit blocks along the way !

[budfox]

red997 said:

I'd suggest playing some tunes you enjoy - nothing worse than thinking I want to improve, but I don't know how...
what are your weaknesses ?
What do you want to play ?
Focusing on where you want to get to can help.

I've been playing for 35 years (inc professionally) and you never stop learning, progressing - hell I worked out a progression in seconds a couple of days ago that I just could not master 10 years ago - it became intuitive;

Try not to focus on the tech (it can be all encompassing these days) and listen to the guitar

Above all enjoy it - and don't stress - we all hit blocks along the way !

Weakness? Well it might sound weird but I don't think anyone ever in my entire family played any kind of musical instrument. So part of me thinks "I'm not musical". That's emphasised by having been trying on and off for so long and never feeling like anything is becoming natural. (I got the hang of the basic open chords easily enough but as in my original post, that's where things ground to a halt).

Other weaknesses, well not being able to give myself any kind of structured learning. I'm quite technical and analytical and whilst there's clearly a scientific basis to music theory, I always prefer "do this, this and then this... and then this will happen". Learning guitar doesn't feel like that.

What songs? Well the Siggi Mertens tutorial on "While my guitar gently weeps" gives a good example of a song I'd like to be able to play. Then "Angie" by the Stones or "Make Me Smile" by Steve Harley is another. Pretty "middle of the road" stuff really. It's almost like I want to be told which song to learn before moving on to the next.

The other thing I'd say is that I want to play my electric guitar because it's easier, but I'd much rather be able to play the acoustic as it sounds nicer.

Anyway, back to Siggi. (I don't find his lessons too easy though, can't really see which notes he's fretting).

[IainT]

How much time do you spend practicing? If it's 10 mins here and 10 mins there you'll struggle to make progress. If it's unstructured faux-practice then you'll also struggle.

To make noticeable progress you need to invest your time and have focus on the various aspects that are important to you. If that's chord work then repetitive exercises that focus on that plus good timing - right and left hands working well together. In many respects it's the most important part of getting really good and it's quite tedious.

Mix it up with learning songs, working out what you can do better and doing it but time at the fret board is the only real answer.

Being a complete hypocrite though I spend far too much time playing songs I like and too little working on basics on my bass but I know what I need to do if I want to get beyond being competent.