Guitarist - new to gigging - what setup?
Discussion
Hi All,
Bit of background. I have been playing guitar for a few years, but was mostly learning and playing by myself. I now have started playing in a band and we have done 4 or 5 gigs playing Eagles, Stones, Pink Floyd stuff where I play mainly rhythm, but a few lead lines/fills as well. I have some pretty basic questions that hopefully some of the more expereinced PH giggers (and pros) can help out with, regarding simple setup.
Should the amp volume be set high and then rolled back using the guitar, or vice versa, or does it not matter and just create different tones?
I have 2 amps, VOX Valvetronix VT40+ which was bought about a year ago with lots of variations of modelled amps, effects, pedals etc. and an older Peavey Bravo 112 (valve amp / 30W / 2 channels - clean and dirty).
The VOX is potentially able to give me all these tones/sounds but I am struggling with the basics, the Peavey on the other hand is simple and could then be combined with some pedals, or a multi-effects unit? I was looking at the Boss ME25 as an example.
Any advice, or basic principles would be appreciated or things to go away and tweak with. At the moment I just literally set a certain level on the amp and then turn the guitar up a bit louder for a lead bit for example!
Cheers, griff
Bit of background. I have been playing guitar for a few years, but was mostly learning and playing by myself. I now have started playing in a band and we have done 4 or 5 gigs playing Eagles, Stones, Pink Floyd stuff where I play mainly rhythm, but a few lead lines/fills as well. I have some pretty basic questions that hopefully some of the more expereinced PH giggers (and pros) can help out with, regarding simple setup.
Should the amp volume be set high and then rolled back using the guitar, or vice versa, or does it not matter and just create different tones?
I have 2 amps, VOX Valvetronix VT40+ which was bought about a year ago with lots of variations of modelled amps, effects, pedals etc. and an older Peavey Bravo 112 (valve amp / 30W / 2 channels - clean and dirty).
The VOX is potentially able to give me all these tones/sounds but I am struggling with the basics, the Peavey on the other hand is simple and could then be combined with some pedals, or a multi-effects unit? I was looking at the Boss ME25 as an example.
Any advice, or basic principles would be appreciated or things to go away and tweak with. At the moment I just literally set a certain level on the amp and then turn the guitar up a bit louder for a lead bit for example!
Cheers, griff
I would keep it as simple as you can. If you can get the sounds you need from your peavey channels and a couple of pedals then that will be easier. I would also expect that the valve amp will cut through the mix better than the vox.
How are you running the amps at the moment? Wet/dry, stereo or are you just switching between them with a pedal?
What sounds does the vox give you that the peavey does not?
How are you running the amps at the moment? Wet/dry, stereo or are you just switching between them with a pedal?
What sounds does the vox give you that the peavey does not?
Sorry, I didn't explain very well. I am currently either using the Peavey or the VOX, they aren't both connected in stereo or switching via pedal.
The Peavey is really nice on either channel and being valve gives a nice tone, but I guess I was just looking to experiment with different effects (compression, chorus, maybe delay)
I bought the VOX to try and do this and get some variations on tone that I could switch between rhythm / lead and I think it is a fair amp for doing that, but maybe I just need to spend lots more time playing with it and understanding what it can do. I did read the manual (honest), but got a bit overwhelmed with Gain, Volume, Master and Power Level knobs and what controlled what pat of the pre-amp / power amp etc. and then how that related to the guitar volume/tone knobs!
The Peavey is really nice on either channel and being valve gives a nice tone, but I guess I was just looking to experiment with different effects (compression, chorus, maybe delay)
I bought the VOX to try and do this and get some variations on tone that I could switch between rhythm / lead and I think it is a fair amp for doing that, but maybe I just need to spend lots more time playing with it and understanding what it can do. I did read the manual (honest), but got a bit overwhelmed with Gain, Volume, Master and Power Level knobs and what controlled what pat of the pre-amp / power amp etc. and then how that related to the guitar volume/tone knobs!
The primary tone comes from your hands and the instrument (i.e. solid body or semi-acoustic) and pickups (single-coil or H/Buckers,), and pickup position and even strings (heavy gauge or light).
If you're playing a variety of music you're probably going to find it simpler leave the amp on a clean sound and introduce distortion and other FX with pedals.
You really want to avoid futzing around with your amp settings in a live situation.
Get a compressor pedal like the Boss CS 3 and experiment with it. You'll be able to produce a much more consistent overall volume without having to adjust the amp settings every song.
If you're playing a variety of music you're probably going to find it simpler leave the amp on a clean sound and introduce distortion and other FX with pedals.
You really want to avoid futzing around with your amp settings in a live situation.
Get a compressor pedal like the Boss CS 3 and experiment with it. You'll be able to produce a much more consistent overall volume without having to adjust the amp settings every song.
Edited by audidoody on Sunday 19th July 21:12
Agreed. Keep it as simple as possible.
One thing worth noting is that valve amps and solid state amps have different tone characteristics generally. I play a Vox AC15 which is a single channel valve amp. To give you an idea how I work it, I set the amp gain to just a very light overdrive, just over the edge from clean. This means I can use the guitar volume to back off a bit, if I want clean, or up a bit if I want crunch. I also use an overdrive pedal when I need a boost. The amp master volume I just use to give volume, rather than tone.
Not sure of either of your amps but if multi channel, your best bet is probably to set the 'clean' channel up like I describe and the 'dirty' channel as heavy as you like.
The only other thing I would say is the lighter the better. You'll get sick of loading heavy kit very quickly indeed and I find these days it becomes a game to see how little I can get away with packing.
One thing worth noting is that valve amps and solid state amps have different tone characteristics generally. I play a Vox AC15 which is a single channel valve amp. To give you an idea how I work it, I set the amp gain to just a very light overdrive, just over the edge from clean. This means I can use the guitar volume to back off a bit, if I want clean, or up a bit if I want crunch. I also use an overdrive pedal when I need a boost. The amp master volume I just use to give volume, rather than tone.
Not sure of either of your amps but if multi channel, your best bet is probably to set the 'clean' channel up like I describe and the 'dirty' channel as heavy as you like.
The only other thing I would say is the lighter the better. You'll get sick of loading heavy kit very quickly indeed and I find these days it becomes a game to see how little I can get away with packing.
Simple is what you want IMO, so given your post I would go for the valve amp turned up loud and use the volume on the guitar to control the drive.
If you find yourself needing more, then an overdrive pedal will work well. Something like a Boss SD-1 is inexpensive and very effective. Don't forget a tuner pedal as well!
If you find yourself needing more, then an overdrive pedal will work well. Something like a Boss SD-1 is inexpensive and very effective. Don't forget a tuner pedal as well!
Our guitarist has a Vox VT30 and it sounds really good, probably due to the combination of a real valve and the modelling circuits, plenty loud enough for pub gigs as well. However he does not have the dedicated switching pedal which would make it much easier to use, essential I would say.
He has recently started using a Fender Twin valve amp with it's own switching pedal for overdrive, reverb, chorus etc, this is so good he never has to touch the amp all night.
If I were you and you don't have the switch pedal for your Vox I would seriously consider buying one. As a previous poster has said though, if you can set your controls so you can go from clean to crunch using your guitar volume you are most of the way there for rhythm playing.
He has recently started using a Fender Twin valve amp with it's own switching pedal for overdrive, reverb, chorus etc, this is so good he never has to touch the amp all night.
If I were you and you don't have the switch pedal for your Vox I would seriously consider buying one. As a previous poster has said though, if you can set your controls so you can go from clean to crunch using your guitar volume you are most of the way there for rhythm playing.
Thanks for all the replies, really useful.
I've done three things which seem to be for now giving me the info to be able to make a decision and test/play with sounds:
1. Read the VOX manual in depth and multiple times whilst adjusting settings on the VOX, one at a time. I am now more able to see what modes of the amp are "tweakable", but more importantly fully understand how to set it up in "manual" mode and save the settings to a bank for retrieving later.
2. Got the footswitch that allows the VOX banks to be controlled
3. Dug out my old Boss pedals (Delay, Chorus) and used them with the Peavey.
The conclusion is absolutely to keep it simple but I now have 2 simple setups to choose from that I understand.
Thanks, griff
I've done three things which seem to be for now giving me the info to be able to make a decision and test/play with sounds:
1. Read the VOX manual in depth and multiple times whilst adjusting settings on the VOX, one at a time. I am now more able to see what modes of the amp are "tweakable", but more importantly fully understand how to set it up in "manual" mode and save the settings to a bank for retrieving later.
2. Got the footswitch that allows the VOX banks to be controlled
3. Dug out my old Boss pedals (Delay, Chorus) and used them with the Peavey.
The conclusion is absolutely to keep it simple but I now have 2 simple setups to choose from that I understand.
- VOX with preset tones/effects stored and retrieved via fottswitch
- Peavey on clean with Chorus/Reverb in front of it and a different footswitch to switch channel
Thanks, griff
I use mostly modelled FX & Amps with my bass rig and I find using the core amp tone as the basis and working from there gives far better results than trying to shape it with various FX/EQs.
As other said though - keep it as simple as possible for live. There's enough going on without complexity of changing dials song to song. If you get a gig where it's all going south (you know the one, flat tyre on the way there, stage too small, PA on the fritz, no foldback...) the last thing you'll want to add is complexity in the noise-making department...
As other said though - keep it as simple as possible for live. There's enough going on without complexity of changing dials song to song. If you get a gig where it's all going south (you know the one, flat tyre on the way there, stage too small, PA on the fritz, no foldback...) the last thing you'll want to add is complexity in the noise-making department...
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