Lets look at our guitars thread

[davidd]

Posk said:

Lovely, I'll check the serial number of Alfie's again this evening try and confirm the year.

On another note, what is the Marshall?

[Posk]

davidd said:

Lovely, I'll check the serial number of Alfie's again this evening try and confirm the year.

On another note, what is the Marshall?

Its a Valvestate AVT275 2x12 combo i had for a few years for home. It sounded ok but the electronics are completely crap on them, it just stopped working, no visable faults you could fix so it went in the skip. Whenever i play at home now i plug in to my computer and use modelling software, its better because if i play a cool riff (seems to be rarer these days!) i can record it before i forget it.

Then ive always got the big rig for when I want to move some air.

[AdeTuono]

Posk said:

How old is that Epiphone? is it a limited edition? (should have a stamp on the headstock rear?) Epiphone mad some truly excellent ltd edtn LP models in the early 90's.

Seeing this post reminded me of an Epiphone I bought from eBay a few years ago. I've never seen, or heard, one quite like it. It really roars!

No idea what year, or anything else, but it's a limited edition, Ser # MR01090514. Anyone else seen one?

[B17NNS]

Anyone tried a Chibson (or any of the other knock offs that the Chinese are turning out in the thousands these days)?

I don't own one and have no desire too but have been reading up a bit.

It seems the early ones weren't great but apparently they are getting much, much better. Common theme seems to be to swap out the electrics and hardware, give it a good set up and you've got a rather tasty guitar.

This chap has bought a few and reviews them on his YouTube channel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E-br10L80k

The sellers are on AliExpress and Tradetang.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Natural-yellow-burs...

What is perhaps more interesting than a counterfeit is that the factories will build you pretty much whatever you want. So if you fancy a Les Paul with a custom top, custom finish, different headstock, your own logo etc, they will build it for you.

Allowing for a set of decent pups and a bit of work when it lands you can have a completely custom guitar for a few hundred quid.

[davidd]

I've been wondering if they will get to the point where they are like the lawsuit guitars that came out of Japan in the 70's.

[Justin Cyder]

The guitar makers keep the trademark protection in one or two unique features. Copy that & they will come for you. With Gibson, it's the open book headstock & PRS protect the double bevel. The copy cats or at least the smart/relatively moral ones will avoid replicas & very their designs enough to put off the purists & keep the heat off from the big boys.

[davidd]

True, but I get the feeling that the likes of 'Chibson' don't care.

[B17NNS]

Justin Cyder said:

The guitar makers keep the trademark protection in one or two unique features. Copy that & they will come for you. With Gibson, it's the open book headstock & PRS protect the double bevel. The copy cats or at least the smart/relatively moral ones will avoid replicas & very their designs enough to put off the purists & keep the heat off from the big boys.

Have you seen one? These are not homages. They are out and out counterfeits. Open book headstocks, Gibson logo, MADE IN USA stamp, bell truss rod cover. The lot.

These people don't care one jot about copyright.

Here's an AFD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMZxipVScPQ

[Justin Cyder]

There are plenty of guys out there calculating the odds of profit vs likelihood of getting dragged through the courts!

[Evangelion]

B17NNS said:

Anyone tried a Chibson (or any of the other knock offs that the Chinese are turning out in the thousands these days)?

I don't own one and have no desire too but have been reading up a bit.

It seems the early ones weren't great but apparently they are getting much, much better. Common theme seems to be to swap out the electrics and hardware, give it a good set up and you've got a rather tasty guitar.

This chap has bought a few and reviews them on his YouTube channel...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E-br10L80k

He also has his own website:

http://cgs.x10.mx/index.html

and has recently started a forum in which the ins and outs of buying and owning such fakes is discussed:

http://cgs.x10.mx/forum.html#/

(Give him his due, he does not actually condone the buying of out-and-out fakes and his advice is to at least get you own logo put on and better still design your own guitar. Indeed he is about to produce a new range of original designs of his own.)

I actually have a Chibson. You need to view them as project guitars; construction and finish on mine is nothing short of amazing but hardware and electrics can vary from adequate to total sh!te. So far I've replaced the nut and bridge, and levelled and profiled the frets but I've also bought replacement pickups, knobs, jackplate, capacitors and more. By the time I've finished with it, all that's left will be the machine heads, selector switch and three of the pots (the other has a pull/push switch for phase switching).

Cost of the guitar itself including hard case and carriage from China = £180

Total cost when completed (not including sale of original parts if I'm lucky) = £320

In other words about 10% of the price of a real one, and even up close it would fool anyone except a Gibson expert.

Downside of course is that I can never sell it; even if I come clean about its origins, it's still illegal.

I have more on order, but am not sure which of these two to buy next:

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Best-Price-PRS-Paul...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/G-Custom-Explorenti...

Edited by Evangelion on Sunday 16th February 11:43

[davidd]

I'm tempted with....

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2013-Hot-Sellin...

As an epiphone one will be £750 and this must be nearly as good

[Evangelion]

davidd said:

I'm tempted with....

http://www.aliexpress.com/item-img/2013-Hot-Sellin...

As an epiphone one will be £750 and this must be nearly as good

Don't forget you may have to change TWO bridges, TWO nuts, FOUR pickups, etc ...

It's by no means certain but you need to budget for it.

This gentleman seems to like his:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_0-8AOKyOs

He too has lots of videos on related topics, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDFtriqU4Q

[davidd]

Evangelion said:

Don't forget you may have to change TWO bridges, TWO nuts, FOUR pickups, etc ...

It's by no means certain but you need to budget for it.

This gentleman seems to like his:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_0-8AOKyOs

He too has lots of videos on related topics, such as this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrDFtriqU4Q

Ah yes and reading some threads on it it seems they need routing in order to get the electrics in properly (or something). Maybe we'll have a go on an epiphone

D

[Baryonyx]

davidd said:

True, but I get the feeling that the likes of 'Chibson' don't care.

This. The 'Tradetang' seller was a big issue on Talkbass a few years ago. It got to the scary point where someone ordered a copy of a Lincoln Goines Fodera signature model, and apparently the fit and finish of the copy was incredible and it played and sounded great. Now, that is something! The Goines Imperial bass starts at approximately $10,500 dollars, so for a cheap copy to come so close as to fool the eye of someone experienced in Fodera basses is quite something.

I doubt Tradetang fear Fodera. I doubt they even fear the industrial might of Gibson. Tradetang was described as, at the time, a hub for Chinese manufacturers. Through Tradetang, you could be put in touch with a luthier who, for the right price, would do a decent copy of whatever Western instrument you fancied, especially if you were ordering in bulk for resale elsewhere.

[Evangelion]

I wonder if we are getting close to a repeat of the situation in the late 70's and early 80's, when the US companies were taken down a peg or two by far eastern manufacturers who could turn out something just as good but far cheaper.

I mean, come on Gibson! What is it about putting a slightly different maple top on a guitar that means it has to cost £1,000 more?

[gbbird]

Evangelion said:

I wonder if we are getting close to a repeat of the situation in the late 70's and early 80's, when the US companies were taken down a peg or two by far eastern manufacturers who could turn out something just as good but far cheaper.

I mean, come on Gibson! What is it about putting a slightly different maple top on a guitar that means it has to cost £1,000 more?

I really do hope so. People need to get over the 'made in the USA' label and things will get a lot better for the musician.

[Baryonyx]

Evangelion said:

I wonder if we are getting close to a repeat of the situation in the late 70's and early 80's, when the US companies were taken down a peg or two by far eastern manufacturers who could turn out something just as good but far cheaper.

I mean, come on Gibson! What is it about putting a slightly different maple top on a guitar that means it has to cost £1,000 more?

Ah, but Gibson are a money making enterprise. It's like saying to Fodera "why does the Anthony Jackson Presentation bass cost $20,000? It's one of the most basic basses you make in terms of simple design!". Because players are willing to pay that. Then consider the Anthony Jackson Presentation II, starting at $35,000. The difference between that and the Presentation bass ($15,000), you'd be hard pressed to spot with the naked eye. Someone is paying...!

That said, the Japanese did get very good, very quickly in the 70's and 80's. Matsumoko factory instruments are still well regarded and become more collectible with each passing year. The Fender from Japan in the 80's and 90's were so good, a lot of their product was restricted to the Japanese market to protect the American brand!

[Tom_C76]

But the thing is, Japanese cars are well made, decently designed etc. I'd still buy a European car every time.

[AdeTuono]

Tom_C76 said:

But the thing is, Japanese cars are well made, decently designed etc. I'd still buy a European car every time.

You might. Millions more buy Japanese though.

[Gaspode]

I have no problem with guitars manufactured in the Far East, I own a few myself and jolly good instruments they are too. But for me it's simply not on to make counterfeits of US made (or other countries, come to that) guitars. The reason people buy these guitars is that they want people to think they have a 'proper' Gibson or whatever but they don't want to pay the going rate.

They are turning a blind eye to the theft of the IP, and this strikes me as being dishonest and unnecessary when there are loads of very good copies out there that aren't claiming to be the real thing.