Lets look at our guitars thread
Discussion
Driller said:
Is that yours Mastodon? Beautiful. I only came aware of these guitars recently but it would seem they've been around a fair few years. Normally I dislike the headless look but they really got it right with these. I'll have one in blue quilted maple please smile
Yeah, that one is mine. I bought it at the end of last year, I love it. Definitely one to try before you buy, some people just don't get on with the Endureneck profile - it's trapezoidal and the flat top section of the trapezoid moves across the back of the neck. The idea is to allow a flat spot to place the thumb in the correct place depending on the frets you're playing on, and to slide the thumb off the flat section on onto the thinner sections when playing chords, to reduce arm and hand tension. It's very clever but it puts some people off as it doesn't feel like any other guitar on the market.It's extremely light though, being chambered and made of ash wood, the balance is perfect when worn on a strap and the body shape allows it to be played in a classical position without needing to sit awkwardly to support the guitar. Played unplugged, it's loud and snappy, which I always find makes a good guitar once plugged in.
They're not cheap, but they're extremely good.
Mastodon2 said:
... Played unplugged, it's loud and snappy, which I always find makes a good guitar once plugged in ...
Interesting, I've never found that. Indeed, I've had a few guitars which were absolutely dead on their own, yet through an amp sounded brilliant. And unfortunately, one or two that were the other way round.I definitely subscribe to the school of thought that guitars that sound bright and lively when they're not plugged in usually sound great plugged in. You can almost feel their resonant quality in your hands. Many builders creating custom instruments choose wood not just with their eyes but with tuning forks to look for resonant pieces.
Some guitars just feel like dead, flat boat anchors. A Les Paul, for instant, feels leaden and dead under all that thick paint and lacquer. That's why you don't expect them to sound sweet, lively or tuneful.
There are exceptions to the rule but I find it holds true. My Warwick Thumb basses both sounded dead when they weren't plugged in. Plug them in and they were all low mids and natural compression from the super dense Wenge and Ovangkol. My Streamer Ltd Editon 1990 was all maple construction and had loads of snap and pop when not plugged in. Through my amp, it sounded like a Spector. High praise indeed.
Some guitars just feel like dead, flat boat anchors. A Les Paul, for instant, feels leaden and dead under all that thick paint and lacquer. That's why you don't expect them to sound sweet, lively or tuneful.
There are exceptions to the rule but I find it holds true. My Warwick Thumb basses both sounded dead when they weren't plugged in. Plug them in and they were all low mids and natural compression from the super dense Wenge and Ovangkol. My Streamer Ltd Editon 1990 was all maple construction and had loads of snap and pop when not plugged in. Through my amp, it sounded like a Spector. High praise indeed.
Evangelion said:
Interesting, I've never found that. Indeed, I've had a few guitars which were absolutely dead on their own, yet through an amp sounded brilliant. And unfortunately, one or two that were the other way round.
I suppose the science behind the wood choices has not always been fully understood by all of the manufacturers. I find that a nice lightweight wood like ash can give a bright, resonant sound unplugged that translate well into a clear and resonant guitar plugged in, in fact ash is probably my favourite body wood. OTOH, some manufacturers favour mahogany* and subscribe to "denser is better", making needlessly heavy guitars that just don't resonate. It reminds me of when BC Rich made some guitars from clear acrylic and they sounded so flat and lifeless as the only resonant parts of the guitar were the strings and the neck, the body might as well have not been there. - Some manufacturers do mahogany bodies well, it must be said. A less dense piece of mahogany can have that dark sound but with plenty of vibrancy and sustain, not to mention the weight saving.
I've only played it for a few hours, so I'll give some pics and some brief thoughts. Sorry about the pics, I'd have taken a few snaps in the garden but it's pissing down here:
Looks: I think it looks tremendous, gold Gotoh tuners, pearloid pickguard, abalone dot inlays and the finish is fantastic. The colour is called "See-through white burst", it's a milky white on the edges clearing to a thin coat over a flamed maple top. It's hard to photograph and until I saw the guitar in person I thought it was a solid colour, as the press / dealer website photos are always so over-exposed the flamed top becomes invisible. It looks stunning in person. As far as Strats go, it's probably a bit "much" for the Hank Marvin crowd though.
Sounds: Amazing. Just amazing. Custom Dimarzios, very bright, crisp and open without being harsh. Very easy on the ears even as the volume goes up, retaining just the right amount of clarity and note definition as the gain increases. The cleans through my Carvin Legacy and Keeley Aurora reverb are like nothing I've ever heard. Two tone controls and 5 pickup positions to choose from, as standard for the Strat since forever means there is loads of adjustment on board too.
Playability: The neck is called "large C" and is apparently the biggest neck in Fenders lineup. It still feels like a toothpick to me compared to a Les Paul and I primarily play 7 strings so even a "big" 6 is small to me. The frets are the largest offered on Fender guitars which is great for me as I love powerful vibrato and big frets help. The action is low and it's strung with 9s, the notes really do fly off the board. It's set up in a way that makes playing modern styles very easy. The trem works nicely, no strings catching in the synthetic bone nut, not going out of tune when used reasonably etc.
All in all, very happy. Fender's CIJ guitars are renowned for being tremendously well built, so my high expectations have been met. Many thanks to Guitar Guitar of Newcastle for being as helpful as ever.
Surprisingly it did not. I was talking to the salesman about the price disparity between this guitar at £1050-ish and the Kotzen Tele at nearly £1600 and neither of us can see where the 35% price increase comes from. The Tele does come with a hardcase though, but even that at trade price wouldn't account for more than £100 of the difference. This one comes with a Fender bag, which is ok for my usage. All my guitars live pampered lives and rarely leave the house anyway.
The other CIJ Strat I owned was a Malmsteen signature and that came with a tweed case. I thought it was an eyesore so I stored it out of sight. It was awful inside too, it had an orange fur lining
The other CIJ Strat I owned was a Malmsteen signature and that came with a tweed case. I thought it was an eyesore so I stored it out of sight. It was awful inside too, it had an orange fur lining
The CIJ stuff is amazing. Every bit as good as the Fender America stuff. CIJ has always left Fender in a funny spot because of their quality and price. Selling a guitar as good or better than an MIA for less money in the same market is a tricky one for Fender. A part-way solution to this is the stuff they made only to sell in Japan. The Kotzen guitars are a massive hit in Japan as it's the only place shred never waned (Grunge and Alt Rock put it in the background for a few years in America).
Kotzen is an absolute monster player. I firsg heard him on his debut album simply because I was chasing down records that Stu Hamm had played on. It was full of great chops but the tunes weren't amazing. Richie was about 18 at the time and his writing hadn't matured but he soon got to grips with a great sense of melody and started churning out the bangers. Much like fellow Penn state shredder Greg Howe, Richie's best work came after he migrated to fusion in the 90's. He is an absolutely incredible player, probably the most talented of the latter day Shrapnel era. If he had arrived a year or two later he would have been a name as big as Satch or Vai.
Kotzen is an absolute monster player. I firsg heard him on his debut album simply because I was chasing down records that Stu Hamm had played on. It was full of great chops but the tunes weren't amazing. Richie was about 18 at the time and his writing hadn't matured but he soon got to grips with a great sense of melody and started churning out the bangers. Much like fellow Penn state shredder Greg Howe, Richie's best work came after he migrated to fusion in the 90's. He is an absolutely incredible player, probably the most talented of the latter day Shrapnel era. If he had arrived a year or two later he would have been a name as big as Satch or Vai.
Baryonyx said:
The CIJ stuff is amazing. Every bit as good as the Fender America stuff. CIJ has always left Fender in a funny spot because of their quality and price. Selling a guitar as good or better than an MIA for less money in the same market is a tricky one for Fender. A part-way solution to this is the stuff they made only to sell in Japan. The Kotzen guitars are a massive hit in Japan as it's the only place shred never waned (Grunge and Alt Rock put it in the background for a few years in America).
Kotzen is an absolute monster player. I firsg heard him on his debut album simply because I was chasing down records that Stu Hamm had played on. It was full of great chops but the tunes weren't amazing. Richie was about 18 at the time and his writing hadn't matured but he soon got to grips with a great sense of melody and started churning out the bangers. Much like fellow Penn state shredder Greg Howe, Richie's best work came after he migrated to fusion in the 90's. He is an absolutely incredible player, probably the most talented of the latter day Shrapnel era. If he had arrived a year or two later he would have been a name as big as Satch or Vai.
My mid 90's Strat says Made In Japan on the headstock. Assume that they now say 'Crafted...', but when did that change?Kotzen is an absolute monster player. I firsg heard him on his debut album simply because I was chasing down records that Stu Hamm had played on. It was full of great chops but the tunes weren't amazing. Richie was about 18 at the time and his writing hadn't matured but he soon got to grips with a great sense of melody and started churning out the bangers. Much like fellow Penn state shredder Greg Howe, Richie's best work came after he migrated to fusion in the 90's. He is an absolutely incredible player, probably the most talented of the latter day Shrapnel era. If he had arrived a year or two later he would have been a name as big as Satch or Vai.
I've always used CIJ / MIJ interchangeably, but looking into it it's more complicated than that and various sources contradict each other. It's something to do with the company building it as Fender Japan was for many years a joint venture between Fender inc. and various Japanese factories but it's murky how the terms were actually used.
I should probably stick to MIJ (which it appears in itself is a term that they've stopped using as of fairly recently) as I've just looked at my Kotzen Strat and a photo of my old Malmsteen signature Strat and they're both "Made in Japan" according to the back of the neck.
Either way, if you find a Japanese Fender instrument, whether it be CIJ or MIJ or whatever they're calling them now then I'd definitely try and get a play of it. The build quality and finishing is among the best I've seen on production guitars, up there with Ibanez Prestige, the Japanese have fantastic builders and the best QC in the world imo and the pricing is very competitive with the USA Fender line.
I should probably stick to MIJ (which it appears in itself is a term that they've stopped using as of fairly recently) as I've just looked at my Kotzen Strat and a photo of my old Malmsteen signature Strat and they're both "Made in Japan" according to the back of the neck.
Either way, if you find a Japanese Fender instrument, whether it be CIJ or MIJ or whatever they're calling them now then I'd definitely try and get a play of it. The build quality and finishing is among the best I've seen on production guitars, up there with Ibanez Prestige, the Japanese have fantastic builders and the best QC in the world imo and the pricing is very competitive with the USA Fender line.
My collection at the moment from left to right, top to bottom:
Fender Mustang parts build of various vintages - work in progress. Based on a Mustang I had as a teenager. Needs some soldering, nut to be cut and fixed, stringing and setup.
2015 Fender Jaguar Johnny Marr Signature - lovely looking Jag, but to be honest quite disappointed with it thus far, not bonded with it. Not a fan of the neck at all. I've been told they grown on you, we shall see.
1997 Rickenbacker 330 - this is my most special one. This will never be sold. Had it from new since I was 18 after having saved up for it all summer.
1995 Fender Strat - customised a couple of years ago to become a replica of Dave Gilmour's. Best player I have. Really comfortable, great tone, great to play. Love it.
2003 Danelectro DC59 - Cheap and weird. Great sound, plays well, but incredibly, comically poor build quality. Good fun though!
Fender Tele Deluxe of various vintages - semi built from bits and re-finned, with Dimarzio pups. Just need to fix the strap buttons and it's finished. Plays well but not had enough time to play it properly.
1998 Japanese Fender Jazz Bass - The only bass I've ever had. Probably not the best, but I love it.
What next? Got a 40th coming up, so may relent and buy myself a Les Paul of some sort. Or maybe an SG. Something thicker than my current collection which is very single coil heavy. I also fancy a Rickenbacker 3000/3001 bass. Oh, and a 'normal' tele of some sort.
smn159 said:
My mid 90's Strat says Made In Japan on the headstock. Assume that they now say 'Crafted...', but when did that change?
There is an overlap beftween MIJ and CIJ but the terms are pretty much interchangeable and appear to be linked to the transition of building between subcontractor factories. The reason that Fender got involved in the first place was to bring the talented Japanese builders making very high quality Fender-style instruments like Tokai and Squier under their control. In doing so they secured the talents of some very skilled builders with excellent factories.languagetimothy said:
Les Paul stuff
Ah OK, that's interesting. To be fair I've been out of the knowledge world for a while. Last time I was reading around that was the general consensus. Doesn't take anything away from it. That's a stunning guitar. If you're unsure if it's a refin, would a UV test show that or not? I can't remember if that works for colour changes, though a look through the cavities could answer that question?
What's the neck like? 50s or 60s shape? Original pickups or a change? Ever considered doing a 50s retro job on it?
Do you have any better pictures?
Sorry for the questions, I love proper vintage Lps lol
Baryonyx said:
There is an overlap beftween MIJ and CIJ but the terms are pretty much interchangeable and appear to be linked to the transition of building between subcontractor factories. The reason that Fender got involved in the first place was to bring the talented Japanese builders making very high quality Fender-style instruments like Tokai and Squier under their control. In doing so they secured the talents of some very skilled builders with excellent factories.
Indeed. As a result the serial number system is particularly confusing with some being re-used between the mid-80's and 2000's 
Good work!
A Les Paul is a guitar that you either get, or you don't in my experience.
I've got one and it'll stay with me until I die.
I'll post some pictures later.
It's my pride and joy.
Tim: It's a hell of a looker. I love the sound of P90s in an LP. One of my favorite setups for rocky blues. I briefly had a BFG and the neck tone was one of my all time favourites, only matched by my old Derek Trucks Sg with the 57 classics. I'd like a set for my Burny.
A Les Paul is a guitar that you either get, or you don't in my experience.
I've got one and it'll stay with me until I die.
I'll post some pictures later.
It's my pride and joy.
Tim: It's a hell of a looker. I love the sound of P90s in an LP. One of my favorite setups for rocky blues. I briefly had a BFG and the neck tone was one of my all time favourites, only matched by my old Derek Trucks Sg with the 57 classics. I'd like a set for my Burny.
Edited by Tom1312 on Sunday 3rd July 19:25
D'oh!
I'll say this though... If you can stomach not having Gibson on the head stock, you can get some killer guitars for less than Studio money.
I got one that looks and plays as well as almost any R9 issue I've handled.
Vintage Burny FLG70 from 1977.
Copied from my UG NGD from when I got it... Man I miss how that place used to be.
Its a heavily modified, 1977 Burny FLG70, so its an old hand finished, Japanese copy of a Les Paul. Its a 2 piece old growth mahogany body with a full thickness maple cap built by people who had a point to prove about the quality of their work.
Tone pros abr II bridge and lightweight vintage type aluminium tailpiece.
PRS McCarty Bridge and #7 Neck pickups with CTS 500K pots with orange drop caps.
Complete nitro finish, satin back, gloss ebony top.
59 Profile neck with thin nitro finish.
Dark rosewood board and Tortoise Side markers, 50s style.
Vintage style klusons with brass posts.
Its just ****ing awesome, thats it.
Its an awesome guitar, for the money its just the best thing I have ever played, its 36 years old, feels like it has been loved and played for that long and it is just resonant and full of history. Its a character and I cannot believe how nice it is...
Whats really scary is that this guitar would run for nearly $3k new if you took inflation into consideration!
Though that explains the quality.... Is it better than a CS Gibson? Of course not. Is it better than many modern Studios up to Traditionals and Standards? Yes it is, but is that because its a guitar that 36 years ago was built to demolish Gibson.... Yeah it is.
Its all important when looked at in relation to what this guitar was made to do, which was be a Gibson when they wouldnt export easily to Japan, its just how things were and you can see why Gibson panicked and threatened law suits, these guys would have driven them out of business..... They nearly did.
Cost me a shade over £500.
My favorite aesthetic is the correct depth vintage pick up rings.
I'll say this though... If you can stomach not having Gibson on the head stock, you can get some killer guitars for less than Studio money.
I got one that looks and plays as well as almost any R9 issue I've handled.
Vintage Burny FLG70 from 1977.
Copied from my UG NGD from when I got it... Man I miss how that place used to be.
Its a heavily modified, 1977 Burny FLG70, so its an old hand finished, Japanese copy of a Les Paul. Its a 2 piece old growth mahogany body with a full thickness maple cap built by people who had a point to prove about the quality of their work.
Tone pros abr II bridge and lightweight vintage type aluminium tailpiece.
PRS McCarty Bridge and #7 Neck pickups with CTS 500K pots with orange drop caps.
Complete nitro finish, satin back, gloss ebony top.
59 Profile neck with thin nitro finish.
Dark rosewood board and Tortoise Side markers, 50s style.
Vintage style klusons with brass posts.
Its just ****ing awesome, thats it.
Its an awesome guitar, for the money its just the best thing I have ever played, its 36 years old, feels like it has been loved and played for that long and it is just resonant and full of history. Its a character and I cannot believe how nice it is...
Whats really scary is that this guitar would run for nearly $3k new if you took inflation into consideration!
Though that explains the quality.... Is it better than a CS Gibson? Of course not. Is it better than many modern Studios up to Traditionals and Standards? Yes it is, but is that because its a guitar that 36 years ago was built to demolish Gibson.... Yeah it is.
Its all important when looked at in relation to what this guitar was made to do, which was be a Gibson when they wouldnt export easily to Japan, its just how things were and you can see why Gibson panicked and threatened law suits, these guys would have driven them out of business..... They nearly did.
Cost me a shade over £500.
My favorite aesthetic is the correct depth vintage pick up rings.
Edited by Tom1312 on Sunday 3rd July 21:11
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