REAL Off-road built like a tank that doesn't break the bank?
Discussion
OK! This thread is getting out of hand and ridiculous.
Enough with the safety thing. I already said the Patrol is safe enough for me. It's my decision.
I already said several times that I'm actively looking for one.
But I'm still open to suggestions as long as it fits my criteria, fits my budget and I like the way the vehicle looks.
If you would like to contribute and suggest something that wasn't suggested you are welcome. But as long as it's not anything from Audi, VW, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Land Rover, Kia, Hyundai, Opel or Ford. I have considered all these brands have to offer and written them off for one reason or another. Also please do not suggest a crossover, station wagons, vans and minivans regardless if they are 4x4. Do not suggest anything that is not a 4x4 large-mid or full-sized SUV with four doors.
If you have no suggestion it's fine. But please drop the safety talk. I already said I will be happy with the level of safety something like a Patrol or Land Cruiser offers.
End of story.
Enough with the safety thing. I already said the Patrol is safe enough for me. It's my decision.
I already said several times that I'm actively looking for one.
But I'm still open to suggestions as long as it fits my criteria, fits my budget and I like the way the vehicle looks.
If you would like to contribute and suggest something that wasn't suggested you are welcome. But as long as it's not anything from Audi, VW, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Land Rover, Kia, Hyundai, Opel or Ford. I have considered all these brands have to offer and written them off for one reason or another. Also please do not suggest a crossover, station wagons, vans and minivans regardless if they are 4x4. Do not suggest anything that is not a 4x4 large-mid or full-sized SUV with four doors.
If you have no suggestion it's fine. But please drop the safety talk. I already said I will be happy with the level of safety something like a Patrol or Land Cruiser offers.
End of story.
Edited by J4x4K on Wednesday 3rd June 20:17
I spent 17 years in the breakdown recovery business and have recovered crashed vehicles off all types and practically every accident scenario you could think off. One of your first suggestions was a Jeep Grand Cherokee, a monocoque construction 4x4. I got called out to recover one off these a mid to late nineties model< it was sitting in a traffic queue at roadworks behind an artic lorry when a van came round the bend behind it and hit it square in the rear at about 60mph, the Jeep was pushed forward under the truck the front and rear practically destroyed but all four doors would still open and close no deformation off passenger compartment. Chryslers own engineers came to inspect that vehicle it stood up to the impact so well.
imagineifyeswill said:
I spent 17 years in the breakdown recovery business and have recovered crashed vehicles off all types and practically every accident scenario you could think off. One of your first suggestions was a Jeep Grand Cherokee, a monocoque construction 4x4. I got called out to recover one off these a mid to late nineties model< it was sitting in a traffic queue at roadworks behind an artic lorry when a van came round the bend behind it and hit it square in the rear at about 60mph, the Jeep was pushed forward under the truck the front and rear practically destroyed but all four doors would still open and close no deformation off passenger compartment. Chryslers own engineers came to inspect that vehicle it stood up to the impact so well.
The 1992-1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee does have an issue with the petrol tank being located behind the rear axle though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWBTMOJaxQE
I have to say I do like the Cherokee. It's not perfect of course but I would not mind a 2001. But it's a bit in the small side for what I need and a few other things.
When I started this the Cherokee and the Defender 110 were my choices. But as I progressed I found options that would be as good or better off roading but also have better road manners as I want to use it as my daily family driver.
So options like the Patrol and Land Cruiser started to look more appealing. And now I'm starting to give a serious look at the Pajero too, or Shogun for you in the UK.
Apparently, like the Land Cruiser, it's not just a nice SUV but really capable off road too. It seems like between it and the Patrol is a give and take. The Patrol is a bit better off road but the Pajero is a bit better o the road. The interesting thing is the Pajero is maybe closer to the Patrol off road than the Patrol is to the Pajero on the road. From all accounts the Pajero goes much better, stops much better and handles much better than the Patrol on the road, while there are not many places the Patrol would go off road that the Pajero wouldn't. The Pajero is also not body on frame like the Patrol, for those concerned with the crumble zone vs hard chassis thing. (but let's not bring that topic back up please).
So there are options. I have to say I'm not 100% locked on the Patrol. If I would find a Land Cruiser that fits the budget and in great shape with lower mileage, no rust etc and can't find a Patrol in the same condition I would not mind going Land Cruiser 80 or 100 series. I will research more about the Pajero and test drive one and maybe I will add it to the list too.
This is why it's great to have a good discussion in threads like these. Despite some "ruccus", most of the replies have been useful.
When I started this the Cherokee and the Defender 110 were my choices. But as I progressed I found options that would be as good or better off roading but also have better road manners as I want to use it as my daily family driver.
So options like the Patrol and Land Cruiser started to look more appealing. And now I'm starting to give a serious look at the Pajero too, or Shogun for you in the UK.
Apparently, like the Land Cruiser, it's not just a nice SUV but really capable off road too. It seems like between it and the Patrol is a give and take. The Patrol is a bit better off road but the Pajero is a bit better o the road. The interesting thing is the Pajero is maybe closer to the Patrol off road than the Patrol is to the Pajero on the road. From all accounts the Pajero goes much better, stops much better and handles much better than the Patrol on the road, while there are not many places the Patrol would go off road that the Pajero wouldn't. The Pajero is also not body on frame like the Patrol, for those concerned with the crumble zone vs hard chassis thing. (but let's not bring that topic back up please).
So there are options. I have to say I'm not 100% locked on the Patrol. If I would find a Land Cruiser that fits the budget and in great shape with lower mileage, no rust etc and can't find a Patrol in the same condition I would not mind going Land Cruiser 80 or 100 series. I will research more about the Pajero and test drive one and maybe I will add it to the list too.
This is why it's great to have a good discussion in threads like these. Despite some "ruccus", most of the replies have been useful.
GravelBen said:
Pajeros are a long way off the Patrols and Landcruisers for strength and reliability, they're not well regarded at all on this side of the world.
I know they are not exactly on the same level as Patrols and Land Cruisers for strength and reliability. But from what I gather they are at least better than Land Rovers and Jeeps.Also, keep in mind you are in NZ and can easily get a TD4.2 Patrol. I can't here in Europe, at least not easily or affordable. So I will have to make do with the GU 3.0 aka grenade. So this is what I would compare a V6 Pajero to in my case. It's V6 Pajero vs 4-inline 3.0 Patrol. Since the 3.0 doesn't have a good reputation would you still say I'm better of with it over a V6 Pajero in terms of reliability?
In terms of drive-train I know the Pajero is not as strong as the Patrol, which in turn is not as strong as the Land Cruiser it seems. But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.
You aren't going to go off-roading anything like the stuff in that clip in a car that you are also planning to use as a daily driver. Unless of course you plan to use the bus a lot, which, by your own admission is the safest from of transport for passengers. Win-win.
You should buy a Suzuki Jimny and a Citroen Xsara Picasso.
You should buy a Suzuki Jimny and a Citroen Xsara Picasso.
I owned a Grand Cherokee Overland two years ago. Whilst parked outside my house on the road a taxi pulled out of a junction nearby, forcing a transit van to swerve into the side of the GC at 30 mph. The transit van was a write off, bent chassis, front end smashed in, steering knackered. The GC was checked over and found to need a new door, which I purchased from Ebay for £30. I think it was that expensive because Overland's have a different wood inlay to your run of the mill GC. Result.
popeyewhite said:
I owned a Grand Cherokee Overland two years ago. Whilst parked outside my house on the road a taxi pulled out of a junction nearby, forcing a transit van to swerve into the side of the GC at 30 mph. The transit van was a write off, bent chassis, front end smashed in, steering knackered. The GC was checked over and found to need a new door, which I purchased from Ebay for £30. I think it was that expensive because Overland's have a different wood inlay to your run of the mill GC. Result.
Thanks for your reply. Yes Jeeps are tough. But let's please end the safety and crash talk. Now that the thread seems to be getting back to a productive course again let's keep it that way. And let's all just ignore those still trying to derail it.(not talking about you of course)
J4x4K said:
It's V6 Pajero vs 4-inline 3.0 Patrol. Since the 3.0 doesn't have a good reputation would you still say I'm better of with it over a V6 Pajero in terms of reliability?
But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.
AFAIK the petrol Mitsis are better than the diesel ones, but I'd take a 3.0 Patrol over one no question.But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.
You're right to think about what meets your needs though, as long as its 'tough enough' for your use it doesn't necessarily have to be the toughest thing around.
GravelBen said:
J4x4K said:
It's V6 Pajero vs 4-inline 3.0 Patrol. Since the 3.0 doesn't have a good reputation would you still say I'm better of with it over a V6 Pajero in terms of reliability?
But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.
AFAIK the petrol Mitsis are better than the diesel ones, but I'd take a 3.0 Patrol over one no question.But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.
You're right to think about what meets your needs though, as long as its 'tough enough' for your use it doesn't necessarily have to be the toughest thing around.
If going for a Pajero it has to be a gen 3 though. A gen 2 doesn't make sense over a Y61 GU Patrol IMO. But the Pajero gen 3 has a few more creature comforts over the GU Patrol and on the road it beats the Patrol hands down. I believe the Pajero gen 2 won't be much different than a Patrol on the road.
I tested drived a gen 3 Pajero 4-doors and on the road it drives quite well. Unfortunately it was an auto transmission. But it handles and stops way more like a car than the Patrol and by what I could find on youtube there are not too many places a Patrol will go that a Pajero gen 3 won't.
Thankfully Pajero gen 3 owners actually use them for real off roading and not only to pick up kids from school. I somehow had the impression it would be hard to find videos of them doing real off roading like is the case with some other modern SUVs. But there is no shortage of videos on youtube showing them going through rivers, climbing rocks, greenlanding, going through thick mud and following Land Cruisers and Patrols.
But I know in the end of the day it won't be as competent as the Patrol or LC for off road. But it seems competent enough and to be honest, it's a give and take. To be better than the Patrol on the road it will have to be worse off road. But to me it seems the difference between the Pajero and the Patrol on the road is bigger than off road. Meaning the Pajero is much better on the road and not that much worse off road. Given that the car will be used more on the road than off road it kinds of tips the scale towards the Pajero.
Off roading will be on weekends and road trips during vacations once or twice a year. But daily road driving 5 days a week the whole year.
But I have not made up my mind yet. I want to drive a Pajero with a manual transmission first. But they are hard to find it seems.
mikeh501 said:
Nissan Pathfinder. Priced well, good reliability, excellent for families and very safe. Decent off road too with proper ladder chassis. This will do everything you posted in that video. Used to own one a few years back, great vehicle. Much more available to buy than a patrol too
I did think of the Pathfinder. I used to like the 1985-1995 first generation ones. But it is a bit on the small side. I want something larger. Gassing Station | Off Road | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff