REAL Off-road built like a tank that doesn't break the bank?

[J4x4K]

I have to say I do like the Cherokee. It's not perfect of course but I would not mind a 2001. But it's a bit in the small side for what I need and a few other things.

When I started this the Cherokee and the Defender 110 were my choices. But as I progressed I found options that would be as good or better off roading but also have better road manners as I want to use it as my daily family driver.

So options like the Patrol and Land Cruiser started to look more appealing. And now I'm starting to give a serious look at the Pajero too, or Shogun for you in the UK.

Apparently, like the Land Cruiser, it's not just a nice SUV but really capable off road too. It seems like between it and the Patrol is a give and take. The Patrol is a bit better off road but the Pajero is a bit better o the road. The interesting thing is the Pajero is maybe closer to the Patrol off road than the Patrol is to the Pajero on the road. From all accounts the Pajero goes much better, stops much better and handles much better than the Patrol on the road, while there are not many places the Patrol would go off road that the Pajero wouldn't. The Pajero is also not body on frame like the Patrol, for those concerned with the crumble zone vs hard chassis thing. (but let's not bring that topic back up please).

So there are options. I have to say I'm not 100% locked on the Patrol. If I would find a Land Cruiser that fits the budget and in great shape with lower mileage, no rust etc and can't find a Patrol in the same condition I would not mind going Land Cruiser 80 or 100 series. I will research more about the Pajero and test drive one and maybe I will add it to the list too.

This is why it's great to have a good discussion in threads like these. Despite some "ruccus", most of the replies have been useful.

[J4x4K]

GravelBen said:

Pajeros are a long way off the Patrols and Landcruisers for strength and reliability, they're not well regarded at all on this side of the world.

I know they are not exactly on the same level as Patrols and Land Cruisers for strength and reliability. But from what I gather they are at least better than Land Rovers and Jeeps.

Also, keep in mind you are in NZ and can easily get a TD4.2 Patrol. I can't here in Europe, at least not easily or affordable. So I will have to make do with the GU 3.0 aka grenade. So this is what I would compare a V6 Pajero to in my case. It's V6 Pajero vs 4-inline 3.0 Patrol. Since the 3.0 doesn't have a good reputation would you still say I'm better of with it over a V6 Pajero in terms of reliability?

In terms of drive-train I know the Pajero is not as strong as the Patrol, which in turn is not as strong as the Land Cruiser it seems. But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.

[J4x4K]

popeyewhite said:

I owned a Grand Cherokee Overland two years ago. Whilst parked outside my house on the road a taxi pulled out of a junction nearby, forcing a transit van to swerve into the side of the GC at 30 mph. The transit van was a write off, bent chassis, front end smashed in, steering knackered. The GC was checked over and found to need a new door, which I purchased from Ebay for £30. I think it was that expensive because Overland's have a different wood inlay to your run of the mill GC. Result.

Thanks for your reply. Yes Jeeps are tough.

But let's please end the safety and crash talk. Now that the thread seems to be getting back to a productive course again let's keep it that way. And let's all just ignore those still trying to derail it.(not talking about you of course)

[J4x4K]

GravelBen said:

J4x4K said:

It's V6 Pajero vs 4-inline 3.0 Patrol. Since the 3.0 doesn't have a good reputation would you still say I'm better of with it over a V6 Pajero in terms of reliability?

But for what I need it for it may be splitting hairs.

AFAIK the petrol Mitsis are better than the diesel ones, but I'd take a 3.0 Patrol over one no question.

You're right to think about what meets your needs though, as long as its 'tough enough' for your use it doesn't necessarily have to be the toughest thing around.

Yes, I heard in the case of the Pajeros, the V6 petrol are the way to go instead of the 4-in line diesel. The main problem I'm having is finding a 3rd gen Pajero which isn't an automatic transmission. Seems like most of them are auto.

If going for a Pajero it has to be a gen 3 though. A gen 2 doesn't make sense over a Y61 GU Patrol IMO. But the Pajero gen 3 has a few more creature comforts over the GU Patrol and on the road it beats the Patrol hands down. I believe the Pajero gen 2 won't be much different than a Patrol on the road.

I tested drived a gen 3 Pajero 4-doors and on the road it drives quite well. Unfortunately it was an auto transmission. But it handles and stops way more like a car than the Patrol and by what I could find on youtube there are not too many places a Patrol will go that a Pajero gen 3 won't.

Thankfully Pajero gen 3 owners actually use them for real off roading and not only to pick up kids from school. I somehow had the impression it would be hard to find videos of them doing real off roading like is the case with some other modern SUVs. But there is no shortage of videos on youtube showing them going through rivers, climbing rocks, greenlanding, going through thick mud and following Land Cruisers and Patrols.

But I know in the end of the day it won't be as competent as the Patrol or LC for off road. But it seems competent enough and to be honest, it's a give and take. To be better than the Patrol on the road it will have to be worse off road. But to me it seems the difference between the Pajero and the Patrol on the road is bigger than off road. Meaning the Pajero is much better on the road and not that much worse off road. Given that the car will be used more on the road than off road it kinds of tips the scale towards the Pajero.

Off roading will be on weekends and road trips during vacations once or twice a year. But daily road driving 5 days a week the whole year.

But I have not made up my mind yet. I want to drive a Pajero with a manual transmission first. But they are hard to find it seems.

[J4x4K]

mikeh501 said:

Nissan Pathfinder. Priced well, good reliability, excellent for families and very safe. Decent off road too with proper ladder chassis. This will do everything you posted in that video. Used to own one a few years back, great vehicle. Much more available to buy than a patrol too

I did think of the Pathfinder. I used to like the 1985-1995 first generation ones. But it is a bit on the small side. I want something larger.

[J4x4K]

S10GTA said:

G Wagon?

Too small, too expensive, too ugly. Just all wrong for me.

[J4x4K]

Avdb said:

Off-road built like a tank...

It was already discussed in the beginning of the thread. Too small, too expensive and honestly I'm looking for a bit more road manners and comfort. It's barely a notch above the Defender on that.

[J4x4K]

HustleRussell said:

Again, it sounds like you need two cars- a practical daily for doing practical daily stuff with and a weekend off-road toy.

Why, if I can get one which can do both?

Besides for vacation and road trips, such as cross country trips across Europe, I would hate to do it on something like a Defender anyway. If I had a dedicated off road it would be a 2-door. So if I had a Defender 2-door, for road trips I would have to put it on a trailer and pull till when I need to off road. Too complicated.

I need something viable for both off road and the road. Something viable for road trips will be viable for daily use. But something viable for road trips has to be viable for off roading when we get where we are going or on the way off roading. No matter what I need a vehicle that can play well on both.

Besides if I get a daily driver for myself and an off road for weekends we will end up with four vehicles, which we really don't need or have the space for. If I get my off road we will end with three vehicles as is. Because my wife will drive the station wagon, I will drive the off road and I already have a "toy car", which I'm keeping.

[J4x4K]

Hainey said:

No, you think you can do both. Trouble is you're on a sub 5k budget, which is cock all in the off road word as you are finding out.

Sorry, don't get your point.

[J4x4K]

mikeh501 said:

you can count the vehicles which are bigger than a pathfinder on the fingers of one hand lol. why on earth would you need something bigger; its absolutely cavernous!

I guess it's a matter of perspective. To me cavernous is a Land Cruiser 100 series.

Still, I want something larger than the Pathfinder. And it's not just that. There are a few vehicles I would go for before a Pathfinder.

But thanks for the suggestion just the same.

[J4x4K]

Aus90 said:

First post, after lurking for several months.....

What about a Foers, thats the manufacturer, Ibex F8


http://www.ibexf8.com/downloads/Brochure12web.pdf

I knew about that vehicle. But probably way too expensive and I'm not sure about it as a daily driver.

[J4x4K]

mikeh501 said:

id agree on the 2 cars thing. even though a vehicle "could" do some semi-serious off roading, you have to be prepared to break it. If I knew that was my daily driver I just wouldnt do it, no matter how capable the vehicle. Doesnt matter how good it is, if you drown it, bend a track rod, dent a road wheel etc. It will be just as broken - just that the more road biased stuff, or LC's and Patrols - anything will be more expensive to fix.

I understand your concern. But it will be one vehicle for both, daily driving and occasional off roading. This decision is made.

Keep in mind though that this won't be the only vehicle in the family. We will still have two more cars apart from the off road.

mikeh501 said:

The other consideration is tyres. if you want to off road, especially on muddy terrain you need mud or extreme mud tyres to make progress. these are rubbish on the road, and i wouldnt want them on a daily driver with my kids in the car because in an emergency it just wont stop or go around corners as well as more road biased rubber.

I thought this was the normal so I didn't specifically mention it. But when I had my Niva I had two sets of tires and only put the hardcore off road tires when I would go off road. I will definitely have different tire sets.

[J4x4K]

Hainey said:

J4x4K said:

Hainey said:

No, you think you can do both. Trouble is you're on a sub 5k budget, which is cock all in the off road word as you are finding out.

Sorry, don't get your point.

Six pages in, a myriad of helpful advice from some really clever and experienced people on here, and your refusal to look at certain makes such as this cherry of a statement from you below:

'If you would like to contribute and suggest something that wasn't suggested you are welcome. But as long as it's not anything from Audi, VW, Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Land Rover, Kia, Hyundai, Opel or Ford. I have considered all these brands have to offer and written them off for one reason or another. Also please do not suggest a crossover, station wagons, vans and minivans regardless if they are 4x4. Do not suggest anything that is not a 4x4 large-mid or full-sized SUV with four doors.

If you have no suggestion it's fine. But please drop the safety talk. I already said I will be happy with the level of safety something like a Patrol or Land Cruiser offers.

End of story.'

...and no, I'm not surprised you don't get my point.

Personally I think what your looking for doesn't exist at the lemonade money end of the budget your playing in and your really just wasting peoples time now. Is that plain enough to get my point?

Oh, OK. I think I get it now. You were trying to tell me what I can and cannot do. Well, sorry. You don't get to. The decision is made. It will be only one vehicle for both.

And why are you assuming because I want to pay 5K for the vehicle it means I won't even be able to afford maintenance? I set the limit at 5K because I don't think more money will buy me more utility, just more luxury and fanciness. Also, whatever I buy I will still spend more money on it to customize it. A lift and a second set of tires is a given. Bottom plates, sliders and other add ons too. When all is said and done it will be a lot more than 5K. And I don't want to buy a vehicle which already has those because it will mean it will most likely be an abused vehicle.

So just to get this out of the way, I'm not interested in getting two vehicles. We do not need four vehicles. I believe a real off road is more than capable of filling both roles and this is my plan.

If you think I'm wasting your time, please feel free to not reply anymore to the thread. Thanks for your contribution thus far.

P.S. I didn't refuse to look at any certain makes. I looked into them all. The ones I wrote above just don't offer anything for me. Either because they are luxury vehicle instead of off roads, Chelsea Tractors, posers, have bad reliability reputations or are overall wrong for me. But I didn't refuse to look. I did look but found nothing. This is very different.

Sorry if you own a vehicles from any of those makes and I offended you. I'm sure it is serving you well. But it's not for me. Move on.

[J4x4K]

Impasse said:

This thread has been going on for a month. A month to buy a five grand shed. Do you actually intend to purchase a vehicle or are you just here to intentionally frustrate those who have offered advice and opinions?

Why is it that most human beings get frustrated when they offer advice but the advice is not taken? Is it a thing of the ego? So am I supposed to take all advice given by all? That would be impossible since even the advice go against each other here.

This is just not how advice works. Anybody who thinks they advice should be taken no questions asked is the type of person who thinks he is always right and others are always wrong.

Having said that, I did take some of the advice given here. Like I said it would be impossible to take all of it. But I took advice. I don't know why I have to keep reminding people of that. I started the thread aiming for a XJ Cherokee and now I'm basically open to a Patrol, Land Cruiser and possibly Pajero in good condition. How is that not taking advice?

And why people still insisting that these three options are not good enough? To me it is starting to look like ego again. People are maybe frustrated because I dismissed their precious SUV by selecting only the three above. Because otherwise it doesn't make any sense all the bickering.

As for your question to why I have not bought a car yet, I'm taking my time with this, yes. I don't want to jump on the first rusty truck I see. I'm not desperate. We have two other cars already. Also, the Patrols and Land Cruisers are very rare around here. If you want Prados they are all over the place. But the real/proper Land Cruiser you barely see on the road, just like the Patrol. The Pajero is more common though.

But I'm taking my time to find what I want. Can I not or what?

Edited by J4x4K on Wednesday 10th June 10:30

[J4x4K]

Aus90 said:

J4x4K said:

Aus90 said:

First post, after lurking for several months.....

What about a Foers, thats the manufacturer, Ibex F8


http://www.ibexf8.com/downloads/Brochure12web.pdf

I knew about that vehicle. But probably way too expensive and I'm not sure about it as a daily driver.

As a new one, yes theyll be £30k plus depending on spec, but they do crop up on ebay and similar from time to time, although a compromise is required on what the PO thinks is a perfects spec....

P.S. I don't work for em, just an observer, and I appreciate the product.

Well, maybe so. But if I'm having a hard time finding a good selection of Land Cruiser and Patrols around here I don't expect to find a 4-door Ibex for 5 grand. Keep in mind, for those who skipped to the end of the thread or didn't read through, that I'm not in the UK. I'm in central Europe. Never saw an Ibex here in my life time.

[J4x4K]

IroningMan said:

If you're in central Europe then I'd have thought that a G-Wagen would be the logical answer - parts support, specialist indy workshops and aftermarket bits will be a piece of cake compared to something Japanese which only ever sold in vanishingly small numbers.

You are not wrong about that. The Mercedes G is way more common and available here than Patrols and Land Cruisers. But parts are still expensive and so is maintenance. It is still a Mercedes and specially the G, I don't know what it is but there seems to be a cult around it or something that anything G related is more expensive than other Mercedes.

But on top of all that there is what I already mentioned about the G-Wagen. They are expensive to buy, too small and dog ugly. Also, apart from the Mercedes rep for reliability, it seems the G is not the tank folklore would have you believe. Doesn't really seem any more reliable than the Japanese.

Altogether I would say they are over priced for what they are. The price seems more based on the cult than on what the car is actually capable of.

Edited by J4x4K on Wednesday 10th June 23:17

[J4x4K]

IroningMan said:

That's true of an awful lot of vehicles - including Landcruisers and Defenders - but the G Wagen does seem to benefit from it more than most.

The flipside is that it will hold its value for you better than most for the same reason.

As for the looks - no oil painting, perhaps, but compared to the blobfests turned out by Toyota and Nissan over the last 20 years? And what is it about Japanses 4x4s and blue plastic interiors with 1970s hotel carpet on the seats...?

Ha! Don't know. But what is it with German car interiors all looking like the interior of a Golf? Specially the G interior is dreadful if you have no leather. But I find the Patrol and Pajero interiors not bad, specially if you have leather.

As for the external look, the G is a box with wheels. Anybody who thinks the Ranger Rovers up to the L322 and the Discos are boxes have never seen a G-wagon. All together there is nothing appealing in a G-wagon for me.

I think the Land Cruisers, Patrols and Pajeros look way better. But you are right, there are some very questionable designs by Japanese manufacturers, but then again also by any manufacturer.

But you are right, the upfront investment will definitely hold when you re-sale.

[J4x4K]

bigblock said:

J4x4K said:

But on top of all that there is what I already mentioned about the G-Wagen. They are expensive to buy, too small and dog ugly. Also, apart from the Mercedes rep for reliability, it seems the G is not the tank folklore would have you believe. Doesn't really seem any more reliable than the Japanese.

Altogether I would say they are over priced for what they are. The price seems more based on the cult than on what the car is actually capable of.

You ask for advice but apparently don't need any because you already have all the answers, so not much point in trying to educate you about G Wagons (which you clearly know f**K all about).

Educate about what? That they are not expensive? They are. That they are not too small for what I want? They are and this is a fact. And how will education change my opinion that they are ugly?

Besides that I never said they were bad or anything. So I don't see your point.