newbie wants 4x4 advice

[danlightbulb]

Ayahuasca said:

Land Rover Defender.

Too expensive. Cars nearly as old as I am are still up for £4k/£5k.

[Ayahuasca]

danlightbulb said:

Ayahuasca said:

Land Rover Defender.

Too expensive. Cars nearly as old as I am are still up for £4k/£5k.

Worth it. Factor in low depreciation.

[danlightbulb]

Im sure they are worth it, but I don't have that amount of money available for this hobby.

Plus, don't defenders just have benches in the back as opposed to proper seats with seatbelts? No good for my kids if thats the configuration.

[plasticpig]

danlightbulb said:

But Convert up above got that P reg Range Rover for £1100?

What I need to know is what car I should get, that will be <£1500, that will handle tough stuff and that won't give me a load of repair shop hassle and high bills. If I can learn how to repair things myself, great, if I need fancy tools and workshops to get repairs done I won't be able to do that.

I have owned a Range Rover P38, SIII landy, Defender, Isuzu Trooper, Classic Range Rover, Lada Niva, Ford Explorer and a Jeep Cherokee XJ.

Series Land Rovers are easy to work on. They don't have ECU's or any other complex stuff to go wrong. Lots of relatively cheap spares available. They quite capable off road but you will struggle to do 70 on the Motorway. I think you will struggle to find a decent one for £1500.

P38 Range Rovers are money pits. Mine was and I have never met an owner who didn't have lots of issues with theirs. I kept an old laptop in the boot with diagnostic software and an OBD 2 lead because it went wrong so often.

Defender is out of your budget unless you want a project.

You may find a classic Range Rover for £1500 with an MOT but you will need to learn how to weld.

Isuzu Trooper. Not a bad choice if you go for a V6 petrol. Many are 7 seater and you should find one in your budget. Parts used to be expensive though and they are not that common so spares availability could be a concern. Mine never went wrong though. It was merely adequate off road.

The Lada only ever got used off road as it lacked an MOT. It was susurprisingly good off road and lots of fun. Not many about though as many of them have disintegrated into a heap of rust.

The Cherokee XJ is in your budget. Spares are not a problem. The 4 litre straight 6 is a bit agricultural and very thirsty but is unburstable. Pretty good off road and there are lots of bits to be had from the US to upgrade off road performance. The only thing I had done to mine was to have strengthened recovery points welded at the front. I think it's the best bet for your budget and requirements.

[Ayahuasca]

plasticpig said:

danlightbulb said:

But Convert up above got that P reg Range Rover for £1100?

What I need to know is what car I should get, that will be <£1500, that will handle tough stuff and that won't give me a load of repair shop hassle and high bills. If I can learn how to repair things myself, great, if I need fancy tools and workshops to get repairs done I won't be able to do that.

I have owned a Range Rover P38, SIII landy, Defender, Isuzu Trooper, Classic Range Rover, Lada Niva, Ford Explorer and a Jeep Cherokee XJ.

Series Land Rovers are easy to work on. They don't have ECU's or any other complex stuff to go wrong. Lots of relatively cheap spares available. They quite capable off road but you will struggle to do 70 on the Motorway. I think you will struggle to find a decent one for £1500.

P38 Range Rovers are money pits. Mine was and I have never met an owner who didn't have lots of issues with theirs. I kept an old laptop in the boot with diagnostic software and an OBD 2 lead because it went wrong so often.

Defender is out of your budget unless you want a project.

You may find a classic Range Rover for £1500 with an MOT but you will need to learn how to weld.

Isuzu Trooper. Not a bad choice if you go for a V6 petrol. Many are 7 seater and you should find one in your budget. Parts used to be expensive though and they are not that common so spares availability could be a concern. Mine never went wrong though. It was merely adequate off road.

The Lada only ever got used off road as it lacked an MOT. It was susurprisingly good off road and lots of fun. Not many about though as many of them have disintegrated into a heap of rust.

The Cherokee XJ is in your budget. Spares are not a problem. The 4 litre straight 6 is a bit agricultural and very thirsty but is unburstable. Pretty good off road and there are lots of bits to be had from the US to upgrade off road performance. The only thing I had done to mine was to have strengthened recovery points welded at the front. I think it's the best bet for your budget and requirements.

I believe the OPs budget is 10k.

[plasticpig]

Ayahuasca said:

I believe the OPs budget is 10k.

It was but read the bit I quoted. He changed his mind as everyone said using an only car on play days was too risky.

[danlightbulb]

Yeah i could have spent 10k on a family car but not on a 2nd hobby car. Max 1500.thanks to the poster above for that detailed write up of some options. Will have a look for the jeep.

[Ayahuasca]

plasticpig said:

Ayahuasca said:

I believe the OPs budget is 10k.

It was but read the bit I quoted. He changed his mind as everyone said using an only car on play days was too risky.

Meh. I use my only car - a Defender- on 'play days' as well as commutes.

[danlightbulb]

Ayahuasca said:

Meh. I use my only car - a Defender- on 'play days' as well as commutes.

I guess you don't have a long motorway commute?


Regarding maintenance. As I mentioned, I like the idea of learning to do stuff myself. In fact, if this is going to be doable at minimum cost to me, I will want to learn how to do a great deal of stuff myself. What sorts of things are we talking about when we are talking of maintenance or repairs? My experience with car mechanics is that generally I know how things work and what things are for, but I have never had a spanner to a car, ever, save for a wheel wrench, changing a battery and changing spark plugs.


Also the only Jeep Cherokees available seem to the be 2.5 litre TD's, mostly. Ive not seen a 4 litre straight 6. Is it just a case of watching and waiting, or are those engines very rare? Is it a 4 litre diesel or petrol?


There are a few grand cherokees around, 4 litre engines. Are these any good?

Also a few grand cherokees in V6 or V8, and some with LPG conversions. Are these ok?

Whats the max mileage I should look at, no matter how cheap. If a V8 lpg had done 212k miles, is this a no go?

Edited by danlightbulb on Saturday 27th June 21:59

Edited by danlightbulb on Saturday 27th June 22:16

[JimmyConwayNW]

Last pay and play I went to I lost the front and rear bumpers and cracked the front diff casing.

Time before that driveshaft destroyed.

No chance of a pay and play toy being a daily if you want to have fun there. Get an s-Max and spend what's left on a toy 4x4 like a jimny ,discovery or old Range Rover would probably be what I would do. I wouldn't bother with a vitara you can't get that many parts for them to mod them as easily.

[danlightbulb]

I really like the look of the jeep cherokees / grand cherokees now Ive been researching them a bit.

Would like some discussion of my questions in the post just above.

1. Maintenance - what sorts of things are maintainable for a beginner? Im not stupid but neither do I have any mechanics experience, nor any significant toolbox, nor a ramp / workshop. Id be starting from scratch on all of that stuff.

2. Cherokee or grand cherokee - are they both capable? There seems to be more grand cherokees around.

3. The 4 litre straight six - only engine I should be considering or what about the V6s or V8s?

4. LPG conversions - many have this - yes or no?

5. Maximum mileage I should be considering? There's a few approaching 200k - no go?

6. They all seem to be autos? Is this ok?

Many thanks

[skyrover]

danlightbulb said:

1. Maintenance - what sorts of things are maintainable for a beginner? Im not stupid but neither do I have any mechanics experience, nor any significant toolbox, nor a ramp / workshop. Id be starting from scratch on all of that stuff.

Easy car's to work on. Parts are readily available from the internet and very reasonable to buy. You will want to get at least a few basic tool's such as a good socket set/wrenches, some ramps, a grease gun, oil drain pan etc for basic maintenance duties.

danlightbulb said:

2. Cherokee or grand cherokee - are they both capable? There seems to be more grand cherokees around.

Grand Cherokee is a bit heavier and more complex, yet more refined. Some might see it as more to go wrong, mine has been no problem for 3 years.

The 4x4 system is different on both though, as the Grand Cherokee uses a viscous style coupling similar to the land rover freelander which can burn out if using different sized tyres. If the wheels lock up or chirp when turning tight corners, it's probably knackered.

Cherokee's use a simple 2wd/4wd selector.

They are both very capable offroad having solid front and rear axles with good articulation and a large aftermarket for offroad upgrades.

danlightbulb said:

3. The 4 litre straight six - only engine I should be considering or what about the V6s or V8s?

The 4.0 litre is legendary reliable (avoid any newer than 2000 though due to head issues). I'm actually fitting one to a land rover right now due to it's smoothness and low end torque. The 4.7 litre V8 is more powerful than the 6 and gets better fuel economy but is not quite as reputable. If you can find a 5.2 V8, they are also very tough, but an old thirsty design.

I would not consider ANY of the diesel options.

danlightbulb said:

4. LPG conversions - many have this - yes or no?

Yes... specifically the 4.0 and 5.2 will run perfectly on LPG with no issues

danlightbulb said:

5. Maximum mileage I should be considering? There's a few approaching 200k - no go?

200k should not be an issue for the 4.0 or 5.2 but I would insist on a test drive to highlight any issues. There are plenty of good 4.0 engines going for little money on ebay, so if the rest of the vehicle is in good condition it's an easy swap to fit a low mileage motor.

danlightbulb said:

6. They all seem to be autos? Is this ok?

The auto's are not the best ever made, but keep the fluid changed regularly and you should have no significant issues unless you do a lot of heavy towing.

Edited by skyrover on Sunday 28th June 07:33

[danlightbulb]

Thanks for that detail, really helpful.

so there are a handful of jeep cherokees 4 litres pre 2000 around on autotrader and ebay. Some in budget some not. All of them are autos and most of them seem to be the 'limited' model. Whats this mean?

Is an L reg ok or too old?

[skyrover]

L reg is about 1995?

Will probably be a 4 litre and will use the simpler OBD1 engine management system.

These are probably the easiest vehicles to chop and change.

One thing to watch for is rust. 1998 models and newer use galvanised bodies so it's not an issue... earlier car's can have corrosion issues around the sills and footwells.

I would look for a 1998 year Grand Cherokee or Cherokee with the 4.0 litre engine, converted to LPG.

This is pretty much the sweet spot IMO.

Edited by skyrover on Sunday 28th June 09:20

[danlightbulb]

Seen a few on ebay now. Couple around the £1500 mark and a couple of low mileage ones up at the £3k mark. Overpriced?

Also, is it big enough? Ive seen a men and motors review on you tube and the guy could barely get into the back. Surprising as it looks huge.


Not a 98 model - but looks ok? Can I get an opinion please? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-JEEP-CHEROKEE-4-0-A...

Edited by danlightbulb on Sunday 28th June 11:08

[skyrover]

I was looking at that jeep myself. Certainly worth a closer look IMO.

They are not large vehicles, parking is not an issue.

Jeep Cherokee (XJ)

Length: 167.5 in
Width: 67.9 in

Grand Cherokee (ZJ)

Length: 181.2 in
Width: 69.2 in

Ford Mondeo

Length: 191.7 in
Width: 72.9 in

[danlightbulb]

Surprising stats. I kind of like the sound of something bigger, like you see in the USA. How come the mpg is so bad if its so small?

Also a shame about the £25 a month road tax. My mondeo is about half that.

[skyrover]

danlightbulb said:

Surprising stats. I kind of like the sound of something bigger, like you see in the USA. How come the mpg is so bad if its so small?

Poor MPG can be accounted by the vehicles weight and parasitic loss from driving the 4wd system.

The 4.0 inline 6 has never been a particularly economical engine either whatever vehicle it has been put into.

If you want a big 4x4 you will need to look at Chevrolet Suburban, Chevrolet Tahoe, Cadillac Escalade, Ford expedition and Dodge Durango

[danlightbulb]

Anyone watch the last top gear last night? They had a 4x4 feature. Hammond got an R reg Jeep Cherokee for just £250, in the 4 litre straight 6. It worked. It drove. They rolled it down a cliff and it started and drove away! They drove like idiots obviously, but the Jeep was amazing off road.

Id rather spend £250 than £1500, as I also want to learn how to maintain it and that leaves some money for parts and upgrades.

Where do I get one from for that money?

[plasticpig]

danlightbulb said:

Anyone watch the last top gear last night? They had a 4x4 feature. Hammond got an R reg Jeep Cherokee for just £250, in the 4 litre straight 6. It worked. It drove. They rolled it down a cliff and it started and drove away! They drove like idiots obviously, but the Jeep was amazing off road.

Id rather spend £250 than £1500, as I also want to learn how to maintain it and that leaves some money for parts and upgrades.

Where do I get one from for that money?

I doubt you will find one that cheap. But try Gumtree