newbie wants 4x4 advice
Discussion
Some interesting information on the jeep 4.0 engine.
It was first produced in 1964 by AMC motors, so is in fact a very old design, yet was produced all the way up until 2006.
It was first fitted in the AMC rambler
And was even fitted to this little hatchback produced by AMC in the 1970's, which some of you might remember from Waynes World
Chrysler bought out AMC in the late 1980's, thus inheriting all of it's models including the Jeep brand, which resulted in Chrysler replacing it's own inline 6 engine with the AMC product.
It was gradually improved, first with a poorly received Renault fuel injection system and finally with a Chrysler system which was much better
The engine was phased out and replaced with a V6 due to emission requirements in 2006.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_straight-6_engin...
It was first produced in 1964 by AMC motors, so is in fact a very old design, yet was produced all the way up until 2006.
It was first fitted in the AMC rambler
And was even fitted to this little hatchback produced by AMC in the 1970's, which some of you might remember from Waynes World
Chrysler bought out AMC in the late 1980's, thus inheriting all of it's models including the Jeep brand, which resulted in Chrysler replacing it's own inline 6 engine with the AMC product.
It was gradually improved, first with a poorly received Renault fuel injection system and finally with a Chrysler system which was much better
The engine was phased out and replaced with a V6 due to emission requirements in 2006.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_straight-6_engin...
I think a Cherokee is a good choice for a toy off-roader. The other main candidate I would look at is the Suzuki Jimny, they might look silly but they're very good off-road and much, much cheaper to run than a petrol Jeep. For a pure pay&play machine on a budget then a modified Jimny would be my choice though they're not much good for anything else.
Although a bit unfashionable and maligned you should also look at a late Mk1 facelift (post 2001) Mercedes ML270 CDIi. You can pick up 2004/2005 with reasonable mileage for well under £10k and keep money aside for fixing the diesel injectors, occasional gearbox issues and the odd bit of rust. Seven seats option available, ~ 30 mpg is possible on motorway, basic build - ladder chassis and low range if I remember correctly so can do offroading duties reasonably well with AT's on. I've had various 4x4's and for the requirement you've described that'd be my recommendation.
No largish 4x4 is cheap to run. Especially compared to a 2WD saloon car. In my experience they consume brakes, pads, suspension components much more readily than lighter less complex 2WD cars. So if you're really keen to itch the 4x4 scratch be prepared to spend more owning it than your current car.
By the way big thumbs up for the Chrysler 4.0l Straight 6 engine...in whichever Jeep variant you consider. Bombproof but not really a daily driver engine unless you've LPG'd it or can afford the fuel...we get sub 20mpg out of it in our 2000 Wrangler.
No largish 4x4 is cheap to run. Especially compared to a 2WD saloon car. In my experience they consume brakes, pads, suspension components much more readily than lighter less complex 2WD cars. So if you're really keen to itch the 4x4 scratch be prepared to spend more owning it than your current car.
By the way big thumbs up for the Chrysler 4.0l Straight 6 engine...in whichever Jeep variant you consider. Bombproof but not really a daily driver engine unless you've LPG'd it or can afford the fuel...we get sub 20mpg out of it in our 2000 Wrangler.
Jimmy's are very much toy vehicles IMO and not as cheap as you might think to run. 24 mpg from the little 1.3 petrol which struggles against the laws of physics i.e weight and parasitic 4x4 system.
The Jimmy is very capable off-road though with it's full ladder chassis and twin solid axles, even if it's not a very realistic car for everyday use.
The Jeep 4.0 will average 16-18mpg (US gallons)
The Jimmy is very capable off-road though with it's full ladder chassis and twin solid axles, even if it's not a very realistic car for everyday use.
The Jeep 4.0 will average 16-18mpg (US gallons)
Edited by skyrover on Tuesday 30th June 10:39
If you're definitely getting a toy and a daily the jeep may be a bit refined. I'd want something that had been lifted, every time my jeep got stuck it was ground clearance, it's not that low but can easily get in trouble on pay and play sites. 2" body lift is only £100 plus fitting though.
Check eBay for off roaders local to you, depending what you want to do if it's just a toy I'd be getting something that had some prep done and a bit more extreme.
I got my LPG'd 4.0 GC with 135k miles for c.£2k from a dealer. In your position I'd actually be tempted with the same, get it lifted a bit and keep the rest of the money in the bank for repairs/upgrades and hire a car for long trips or days the jeep was off the road. Two sets of wheels one with good mud tyres and one with more road orientated would make the daily routine more pleasant too.
Check eBay for off roaders local to you, depending what you want to do if it's just a toy I'd be getting something that had some prep done and a bit more extreme.
I got my LPG'd 4.0 GC with 135k miles for c.£2k from a dealer. In your position I'd actually be tempted with the same, get it lifted a bit and keep the rest of the money in the bank for repairs/upgrades and hire a car for long trips or days the jeep was off the road. Two sets of wheels one with good mud tyres and one with more road orientated would make the daily routine more pleasant too.
for £1500 you could get a decent discovery 1 tdi some cheap off road tyres and use that for playing? they are pretty tough and surprisingly good off-road, aka will follow a defender 90 to a point.
For £10k a landcruiser such as this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Toyota-Land-Cruiser... Will do pay and plays on some good at's and not break unless you are silly with it. + 30mpg on the road is do-able.
or go for a 110 td5 not half as bad on road as people say I have done 300 mile journeys in one go regularly in them and they really are fine if a little noisy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-Land-Rover-Defender...
Tend to find that learning to off-road in a more expensive vehicle can lead you to be more cautious as confidence grows which is a good thing!
Ag
For £10k a landcruiser such as this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-Toyota-Land-Cruiser... Will do pay and plays on some good at's and not break unless you are silly with it. + 30mpg on the road is do-able.
or go for a 110 td5 not half as bad on road as people say I have done 300 mile journeys in one go regularly in them and they really are fine if a little noisy. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-Land-Rover-Defender...
Tend to find that learning to off-road in a more expensive vehicle can lead you to be more cautious as confidence grows which is a good thing!
Ag
2 I went and saw a cherokee tonight. It was in really good nick, engine was spotless and ran beautifully. Body all looked in great nick. Interior nice. Smaller inside than my mondeo though. Drove really nice. It was fitted with Lpg. am i right in thinking that as lpg is half the price of petrol that effectively makes it the same fuel costs as my 45mpg mondeo, despite the 20mpg of the jeep? Car was that good i could have had it as my daily. Not sure how it fairs at 70 on the motorway but it was lovely.
question about the 4wd system. The lever had 2wd, part time 4wd, full time 4wd, and 4wd low range. What do these different modes mean with the centre diffs? Does it have a locking centre diff?
question about the 4wd system. The lever had 2wd, part time 4wd, full time 4wd, and 4wd low range. What do these different modes mean with the centre diffs? Does it have a locking centre diff?
Edited by danlightbulb on Thursday 2nd July 01:11
danlightbulb said:
2 I went and saw a cherokee tonight. It was in really good nick, engine was spotless and ran beautifully. Body all looked in great nick. Interior nice. Smaller inside than my mondeo though. Drove really nice. It was fitted with Lpg. am i right in thinking that as lpg is half the price of petrol that effectively makes it the same fuel costs as my 45mpg mondeo, despite the 20mpg of the jeep? Car was that good i could have had it as my daily. Not sure how it fairs at 70 on the motorway but it was lovely.
question about the 4wd system. The lever had 2wd, part time 4wd, full time 4wd, and 4wd low range. What do these different modes mean with the centre diffs? Does it have a locking centre diff?
At 18mpg with LPG you are looking at around 30mpg equivalent costs. You will struggle to find any diesel 4x4 that can meet that figure.question about the 4wd system. The lever had 2wd, part time 4wd, full time 4wd, and 4wd low range. What do these different modes mean with the centre diffs? Does it have a locking centre diff?
2wd means that power is sent to the back axle
Part time 4x4 means power is sent to both front and rear axles with an open center differential
Full time 4x4 means the center differential is locked
4wd low range is like full time 4x4 but running through a much lower gear ratio and should never be used above 30mph. It is very useful for crawling along off-road and gives better power and control.
It's important when you buy a jeep that you check for full and free movement of the 4x4 selector lever and make sure it shifts between the different positions correctly.
The correct way is to to stop the vehicle and place the gearbox into neutral. Than select the desired 4x4 mode.
im very disappointed.
just got an insurance quote from adrian flux and it was £450 a year, for only 2k miles per annum, full no claims and only 3rd party f&t. I pay that for my main car on 10k per year and fully comp. From what i have read on these and other forums a limited use 4x4 policy should be 150/200 a year. I cant afford that kind of running cost for a hobby offroader. Really disappointed.
just got an insurance quote from adrian flux and it was £450 a year, for only 2k miles per annum, full no claims and only 3rd party f&t. I pay that for my main car on 10k per year and fully comp. From what i have read on these and other forums a limited use 4x4 policy should be 150/200 a year. I cant afford that kind of running cost for a hobby offroader. Really disappointed.
Edited by danlightbulb on Thursday 2nd July 13:49
Adrian flux is supposed to be specialist 4x4 policy. I had an expectation of 200 a year based on what other people have said their policies cost. Direct line quote was 900!! For an £800 18 year old car doing 2k a year. Complete joke. Its not the car thats the blocker is the f-ing insurance.
Trying Lancaster now.
I put all the details into go compare. Best price was £525. The thing is though thats its making no difference whether I select 10,000 miles per year or £1000, so I'm getting no discount for limited mileage. Just doesn't make sense.
Edit - Lancaster insurance - £3,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reason - car too young to be included on their specialist policies. So because I'm already using my no claims bonus on my main car policy, which I'll be keeping, then I can't mirror that no claims bonus on this 2nd car.
This is a f
king joke. Sorry for the language but it is a total total fking joke.
I put all the details into go compare. Best price was £525. The thing is though thats its making no difference whether I select 10,000 miles per year or £1000, so I'm getting no discount for limited mileage. Just doesn't make sense.
Edit - Lancaster insurance - £3,000 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reason - car too young to be included on their specialist policies. So because I'm already using my no claims bonus on my main car policy, which I'll be keeping, then I can't mirror that no claims bonus on this 2nd car.
This is a f
king joke. Sorry for the language but it is a total total fking joke.Edited by danlightbulb on Thursday 2nd July 19:12
The sales assistant didn't say. I asked for 3rd party, but the woman said I'll search for both because sometimes fully comp comes out cheaper than 3rd party. Once she told me it was coming up at £3,000+ and there was nothing she could do she just wanted me off the phone as fast as possible.
Its because I couldn't count my no claims discount again. She said they mirror the no claims on classic car policies but this car is too young (18 years old lol!!!), and they don't mirror the no claims on standard policies.
I don't understand it, because lots of people must have 2nd cars and they can't be all 25+ years old or whatever it needs to be. It stands to reason that if I pay £500 a year for 10k miles then I should only be paying £100/£200 a year for 2k miles. fking rip off.
The £450 adrian flux quote is starting to look quite good now, but this stuff about the no claims has made me wonder whether Adrian flux has got the quote right or not. Plus its still more than I can afford. I was able to allow £50 a month for tax and insurance. Tax was £22 so that left £28 for insurance.
Its because I couldn't count my no claims discount again. She said they mirror the no claims on classic car policies but this car is too young (18 years old lol!!!), and they don't mirror the no claims on standard policies.
I don't understand it, because lots of people must have 2nd cars and they can't be all 25+ years old or whatever it needs to be. It stands to reason that if I pay £500 a year for 10k miles then I should only be paying £100/£200 a year for 2k miles. f
king rip off. The £450 adrian flux quote is starting to look quite good now, but this stuff about the no claims has made me wonder whether Adrian flux has got the quote right or not. Plus its still more than I can afford. I was able to allow £50 a month for tax and insurance. Tax was £22 so that left £28 for insurance.
Don't give up. My 95 classic Range Rover is insured through Classicline That was 18 years old when I first insured it on a classic policy. NFU used to insure for off road use which is why I suggested them.
Thanks. I'm looking around. I'll try NFU. I've emailed a few insurance brokers who supposedly specialise in 2nd cars so we'll see if those come up trumps.
I hate the way insurance works. It should be the person that's insured not the vehicle. I can only drive one vehicle at a time after all.
I hate the way insurance works. It should be the person that's insured not the vehicle. I can only drive one vehicle at a time after all.
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