What Proper 4x4 for mud/snow/ICE?
Discussion
My brother had an X-Trail which, even on standard tyres, towed a Peugeot 106 up a snow-covered hill one winter.
Don't discount soft-roaders with decent tyres too; having spent a fair amount of time in Poland mid-winter, where it is -20'C and plenty of snow, I can vouch that a 4wd Vauxhall Mokka on winter tyres is exceptionally capable, and not too big. May be out of budget, but the theory can be applied to anything similar within budget.
Lastly, how about going old school, Range Rover Classic? £3,500 should still get you something half-decent in the summer months, and although they are reasonably large they don't ever feel that big to me when driving them. Of course, with decent tyres they are virtually unstoppable in bad conditions
Don't discount soft-roaders with decent tyres too; having spent a fair amount of time in Poland mid-winter, where it is -20'C and plenty of snow, I can vouch that a 4wd Vauxhall Mokka on winter tyres is exceptionally capable, and not too big. May be out of budget, but the theory can be applied to anything similar within budget.
Lastly, how about going old school, Range Rover Classic? £3,500 should still get you something half-decent in the summer months, and although they are reasonably large they don't ever feel that big to me when driving them. Of course, with decent tyres they are virtually unstoppable in bad conditions
Any excuse to look at Forester classifieds. Love 'em. Not many about at the moment on PH.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/s...
A few on Autotrader.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Or if you could live without a low range box this looks like an incredible deal:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Love 'em. Not many about at the moment on PH.http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/s...
A few on Autotrader.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
Or if you could live without a low range box this looks like an incredible deal:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...
I had a Freelander which was perfectly capable in ice and mud on pretty much normal road tyres. Being brutally honest - it achieved 90% of what my current Disco does (aside from towing capacity) off-road; so long as you are aware of the vehicle's limits and drive accordingly.
In 'proper' snow and mud/clay situations it comes down less to the actual drive system of the car (4wd vs 2wd, etc.) and more down to simple geometry (ground clearance, approach/departure angles). If enough snow or mud packs under the car and grounds it - then it'll immobilise you irrespective of how much power you have or how many wheels are working at any given time.
In 'proper' snow and mud/clay situations it comes down less to the actual drive system of the car (4wd vs 2wd, etc.) and more down to simple geometry (ground clearance, approach/departure angles). If enough snow or mud packs under the car and grounds it - then it'll immobilise you irrespective of how much power you have or how many wheels are working at any given time.
LandRoverManiac said:
In 'proper' snow and mud/clay situations it comes down less to the actual drive system of the car (4wd vs 2wd, etc.) and more down to simple geometry (ground clearance, approach/departure angles). If enough snow or mud packs under the car and grounds it - then it'll immobilise you irrespective of how much power you have or how many wheels are working at any given time.
Rubbish. Yes, grounding will stop you, but having all 4 wheels driven makes a big difference. Maybe just one end will be grounded and the other can pull/push you through. Assuming you don't have an open centre diff.I would go for a Subaru Forester without the slightest doubt and that is after having owned a Freelander 2 and used a Freelander 1 and Defender 110 at work(landscaping and forestry so plenty of proper off road).
Work (and I personally) also used to have a few Subaru Foresters and these equipped with the right tyres out performed the Landrovers in all but the most extreme conditions. By extreme I mean the Forester happily dealt with badly rutted off road tracks with over 2ft of snow which caused the Freelander 1&2 to struggle.
I even had to tow a defender 90 out of the snow in my Forester STI, after previously being told by the owner of the Defender that the Subaru wan't a proper 4x4!
The Forester is also lighter which is better for snow and ice as it doesn't carry as much momentum and would be less of a worry if you had to traverse an adverse camber (I know there is a better word for this but it escapes me!) in the track or had to park on a slight slope, as I proved many times. I often found that you had to be very careful to find a flat spot to park the Freelander 2 or Defender otherwise they would have moved/slipped away when you came back to them, where as the Forester always stayed put.
In my experience the Subarus are always more reliable.
But for the needs you have mentioned I would have thought that the either the Freelander or Forester would easily be sufficient for your needs.If you can get a Freelander with Hill Descent control then this could be a bonus.
Sorry about the length of the above (I think it is called making a short story, long!)
Work (and I personally) also used to have a few Subaru Foresters and these equipped with the right tyres out performed the Landrovers in all but the most extreme conditions. By extreme I mean the Forester happily dealt with badly rutted off road tracks with over 2ft of snow which caused the Freelander 1&2 to struggle.
I even had to tow a defender 90 out of the snow in my Forester STI, after previously being told by the owner of the Defender that the Subaru wan't a proper 4x4!
The Forester is also lighter which is better for snow and ice as it doesn't carry as much momentum and would be less of a worry if you had to traverse an adverse camber (I know there is a better word for this but it escapes me!) in the track or had to park on a slight slope, as I proved many times. I often found that you had to be very careful to find a flat spot to park the Freelander 2 or Defender otherwise they would have moved/slipped away when you came back to them, where as the Forester always stayed put.
In my experience the Subarus are always more reliable.
But for the needs you have mentioned I would have thought that the either the Freelander or Forester would easily be sufficient for your needs.If you can get a Freelander with Hill Descent control then this could be a bonus.
Sorry about the length of the above (I think it is called making a short story, long!)
If ground clearance is not a problem suggest VW Golf V6 4Motion 5 door which is a 4WD car and available for considerably less that that sort of money or if you want a saloon with split rear seats and through boot accessibility try a VW Bora V6 4Motion also 4WD. We have had two of the latter and our Son has a Golf V6 4Motion also 4WD all of which have been excellent in quite deep snow and adverse weather and we live at 100ft (330m) above sea level (!). Unfortunately a second hand 4WD Golf 5 door R32 will probably be outside of your price range as most sellers are still asking silly prices, but apart from older and well-used versions of Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda or similar 4WD SUV's or considerably older and again well-used Land Rovers or perhaps Freelanders (the Mk2 is better) then I am afraid you have little choice.
SlimJim16v said:
Rubbish. Yes, grounding will stop you, but having all 4 wheels driven makes a big difference. Maybe just one end will be grounded and the other can pull/push you through. Assuming you don't have an open centre diff.
Perhaps I didn't explain my point very well - 4x4 makes zero difference if all four wheels are spinning away while the vehicle's under-frame is sitting on a nice compacted bed of mud or snow. I've seen it happen enough (primarily through driver error rather than fault of the vehicle admittedly) to believe that simply having 4x4 does not necessarily = great off-roader.I once had to recover a Defender (probably one of the most capable 4x4s you can buy off-the-shelf) with decent MT tyres and a fully functioning locked centre diff - the owner had decided to belly-flop his truck onto a packed snowdrift in such a way that whether they had a four-wheel drive system or not was a moot point.
A vehicle with four-wheel drive with poor ground clearance will get itself stuck by grounding as easily as a 2WD version of the same vehicle simply due to geometry. A 4x4 drive-train by itself will not miraculously improve that vehicle's suspension characteristics, approach/departure angles, underbody clearance, etc.
Just my two pennies worth.
toni2has said:
If ground clearance is not a problem suggest VW Golf V6 4Motion 5 door which is a 4WD car and available for considerably less that that sort of money or if you want a saloon with split rear seats and through boot accessibility try a VW Bora V6 4Motion also 4WD. We have had two of the latter and our Son has a Golf V6 4Motion also 4WD all of which have been excellent in quite deep snow and adverse weather and we live at 100ft (330m) above sea level (!). Unfortunately a second hand 4WD Golf 5 door R32 will probably be outside of your price range as most sellers are still asking silly prices, but apart from older and well-used versions of Toyota, Mitsubishi, Mazda or similar 4WD SUV's or considerably older and again well-used Land Rovers or perhaps Freelanders (the Mk2 is better) then I am afraid you have little choice.
Our "other" car is a 4wd Audi S4 Quattro, so that box is already cleared, we're just after a go anywhere anytime workhorse/van really, so the boxy/big shape of a 4x4 works well for us too. Think we are settled on freelander/Xtrail/forester now anyway, off to look at a decent looking freelander tomorrow evening.
Thanks all
300bhp/ton said:
Evilex said:
But when did it last snow properly in the southern half of the UK? 1991 by my best guess!
So you were out of the country in 2010 then and the adjoining winters?
Seriously just get the drive fixed to avoid a horrible old school 4x4! Unless it's an excuse to go green laning..
Now if you were moving to rural Shropshire- where we moved to dec 2012- some more ground clearance would be great. Did have chains and did manage to work out of the Skoda ok but could've been better April 2013! Friends still in Devon managed fine with fwd cars even without appropriate rubber then
Sorry started writing that ages ago and just posted so missed your last post. Sounds sensible. Freelander mk1 has transmission issues that means most are now fwd only. Friend had 2, both fwd (newer one repaired and failed again in a few months), another friend lived at 400m on Brown Clee and found to her cost about the lack of 4wd. Had lids of other problems with it too.
So at the least check all 4 wheel can move before you buy it!
So at the least check all 4 wheel can move before you buy it!
Edited by mclwanB on Thursday 4th August 18:56
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