What Proper 4x4 for mud/snow/ICE?
Discussion
Ask for an offroad test drive;)
Or start here
http://www.freelanderspecialist.com/freelander-1/t...
If it's just the viscous coupling it was apparently about £1100 + Vat for (parts in 2006) plus fitting 8/. If the ird has gone as well that would be on top. Can see why friends stayed fwd!
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/61251...
Or start here
http://www.freelanderspecialist.com/freelander-1/t...
If it's just the viscous coupling it was apparently about £1100 + Vat for (parts in 2006) plus fitting 8/. If the ird has gone as well that would be on top. Can see why friends stayed fwd!
http://forum.landrovernet.com/showthread.php/61251...
Mk1 Freelanders are well documented as being piles of s
te, either get a mk2 or preferably get either a Nissan X-trail or Toyota Rav4 in that order if you want 'proper 4x4 and something that won't be in the garage every 5 minutes.
X-trail is comparable size wize to a freelander, Rav4 slightly smaller.
Oh and most important of all, no matter what vehicle you end up with - proper tyres.
te, either get a mk2 or preferably get either a Nissan X-trail or Toyota Rav4 in that order if you want 'proper 4x4 and something that won't be in the garage every 5 minutes.X-trail is comparable size wize to a freelander, Rav4 slightly smaller.
Oh and most important of all, no matter what vehicle you end up with - proper tyres.
techguyone said:
Mk1 Freelanders are well documented as being piles of ste, either get a mk2 or preferably get either a Nissan X-trail or Toyota Rav4 in that order if you want 'proper 4x4 and something that won't be in the garage every 5 minutes.
X-trail is comparable size wize to a freelander, Rav4 slightly smaller.
Oh and most important of all, no matter what vehicle you end up with - proper tyres.
te, either get a mk2 or preferably get either a Nissan X-trail or Toyota Rav4 in that order if you want 'proper 4x4 and something that won't be in the garage every 5 minutes.X-trail is comparable size wize to a freelander, Rav4 slightly smaller.
Oh and most important of all, no matter what vehicle you end up with - proper tyres.
Mk1 Freelanders aren't the most reliable cars; that's for sure. Freelanders are more capable than they are given credit for, off road, though.
I had a mk1 RAV4 in Tanzania and drove through all kinds of terrain including light jungle; it was BRILLIANT! Doesn't help you with the snow / crap weather angle - but I love them.
Panda 4x4's are just great; I absolutely love them; very popular in the Alps and incredibly capable; they don't look the part but will show up many a 4x4 when the going gets rough.
I've also driven a Daihatsu Terios - again, underrated and a brilliant little 4x4. It was mk1 I drove and not sure how they changed for mk2. They can be had for £1000 and believe me, are brilliant little 4x4's.
I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
As for Subaru. My brother in law has an Impreza (I know I know, ground clearance...) - it is almost spooky how well it handles snow / icy conditions. I drove it like it was a warm day and it was just on rails. So a special mention must go to Subaru. I'd say that a Subaru is always going to be in another league, reliability wise, to a Land Rover.
Edited to add pic of my RAV4 in her home environment:
I had a mk1 RAV4 in Tanzania and drove through all kinds of terrain including light jungle; it was BRILLIANT! Doesn't help you with the snow / crap weather angle - but I love them.
Panda 4x4's are just great; I absolutely love them; very popular in the Alps and incredibly capable; they don't look the part but will show up many a 4x4 when the going gets rough.
I've also driven a Daihatsu Terios - again, underrated and a brilliant little 4x4. It was mk1 I drove and not sure how they changed for mk2. They can be had for £1000 and believe me, are brilliant little 4x4's.
I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
As for Subaru. My brother in law has an Impreza (I know I know, ground clearance...) - it is almost spooky how well it handles snow / icy conditions. I drove it like it was a warm day and it was just on rails. So a special mention must go to Subaru. I'd say that a Subaru is always going to be in another league, reliability wise, to a Land Rover.
Edited to add pic of my RAV4 in her home environment:
Edited by LDN on Friday 5th August 11:12
LDN said:
Mk1 Freelanders aren't the most reliable cars; that's for sure.
I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
Likewise, on my 2nd Rav for Alps. I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
Edited by LDN on Friday 5th August 11:12
No point having uber-4x4 if it doesn't start. Alps can be really harsh, not so much the January perma-freeze but the shoulder seasons where it goes +5 to -5 every day. The freeze-thaw just seems to create more problems.
Funniest thing is watching UK 4x4s on normal tyres struggling while Jean-Claude's Clio zips by.
CABC said:
LDN said:
Mk1 Freelanders aren't the most reliable cars; that's for sure.
I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
Likewise, on my 2nd Rav for Alps. I ended up with a 2005 RAV4 for my Alps car; it lives out there and I love it. I wouldn't say it's as capable as the mk1 RAV4 that I mentioned, though. Just brilliant and reliable cars. I love Toyota.
Edited by LDN on Friday 5th August 11:12
No point having uber-4x4 if it doesn't start. Alps can be really harsh, not so much the January perma-freeze but the shoulder seasons where it goes +5 to -5 every day. The freeze-thaw just seems to create more problems.
Funniest thing is watching UK 4x4s on normal tyres struggling while Jean-Claude's Clio zips by.
t box of a car, with no issue or drama. My last trip out there, I literally saw cars flipped on their side; one van had gone off the road and only a massive tree had stopped it falling a few hundred feet! It can be quite terrifying.
Remembering the OP's original requirement for a car less than £3500, then the only option is an early Shogun SWB. 3.2l Diesel, selectable 2/4wd, Diff locks, all the toys etc ect. My old LWB Shogun was awseome in the Snow and i'm now looking forward to see how this new electric Outlander jobbie with 2 motors gets on with the snow!
Who needs all that mechanical gubbins when there's a motor at each end!
Who needs all that mechanical gubbins when there's a motor at each end!
Who cares about winning awards.... any reliability survey forces a list, even if they score almost the same. Go look up the actual stats behind such things if you don't believe me. As a rule, last place is usually pretty close to first. Because, shock horror. Most modern cars are perfectly capable of modern every day use.
As I said, I know of 3 Freelanders being used daily by family members. They are good vehicles, that can suffer some niggles. But haven't been any worse or any better than the majority of vehicles you can buy.
If you ignore the drivetrain you can break them. And what happens is people don't want to replace a fairly cheap serviceable item, continue driving them and cause major damage.
Over the years we've had Toyota's, Nissans, Honda's, Subaru's, BMW's, Jeep's and many others. The Land Rover products have been no worse to own or maintain. But do have the advantage of readily available parts, generally well priced parts and lots of people able and willing to work on them should the need arise.
As I said, I know of 3 Freelanders being used daily by family members. They are good vehicles, that can suffer some niggles. But haven't been any worse or any better than the majority of vehicles you can buy.
If you ignore the drivetrain you can break them. And what happens is people don't want to replace a fairly cheap serviceable item, continue driving them and cause major damage.
Over the years we've had Toyota's, Nissans, Honda's, Subaru's, BMW's, Jeep's and many others. The Land Rover products have been no worse to own or maintain. But do have the advantage of readily available parts, generally well priced parts and lots of people able and willing to work on them should the need arise.
If you service the Haldex as per land rovers schedule it doesn't break and does big miles. I know someone with 160k plus on a mrk1 freelander and the drive train is fine because he services it on schedule.
I did the vanes on the turbo but apart from that it's not went wrong but it has had a clutch, if that matters.
However when they get to the council estates and people don't look after them they break, and appear next on Ebay with 'the economy mod' done to try and flog them on.
I did the vanes on the turbo but apart from that it's not went wrong but it has had a clutch, if that matters.
However when they get to the council estates and people don't look after them they break, and appear next on Ebay with 'the economy mod' done to try and flog them on.
sidekickdmr said:
Freelanders did seems to have a lot of issues, but the earlier petrol ones mainly.
From the research I've done the TD4 BMW engine one was much much better and most of the issues ironed out.
But understandably people think Freelander=unreliable
I actually quite like them and the TD4 engines might be fine but aren't Freelander 1s just riddled with issues even outside HGF on K-series petrols? A mechanic friend has a Freelander 2 and he is a Land Rover fanatic, so I guess they're probably better if you can find one in budget.From the research I've done the TD4 BMW engine one was much much better and most of the issues ironed out.
But understandably people think Freelander=unreliable
As suggested elsewhere, a RAV4 won't break but will be a pretty dull drive. Something like a Toyota 4Runner or Mitsubishi Shogun Sport would be quite rugged and capable and more interesting than a RAV4. Why not a Subaru? Not a diesel but when I owned my WRX, I found that I was getting similar FE to my cousin with his Discovery 2 TD5 and going a lot faster and having much more fun!
Subarus AWD is the best in the business, so a WRX Wagon/Legacy/Outback/Forester, although looking at that drive, I may go with the Outback or Forester for the extra ground clearance.
techguyone said:
Bore off
Considering when I researched for 4 X 4's in that size with reliability as a big factor, it's no surprise that the freelander was one of the first off the list.
Delude yourself all you like, a freelander ain't ever going to win any awards for reliability.
Depends on who you talk to. I bought a Nissan X-Trail which was meant to be 'reliable' if you go by internet wisdom - I had more problems (including two complete breakdowns) with it in two months than in 14 months of petrol Freelander ownership. The Nissan was expensive in terms of spares, had a fragile 4x4 system that relied on ABS sensors (damage a sensor = no 4x4) and was a rusty heap underneath. That doesn't include the chocolate turbo issues - which thankfully I didn't have. The Freelander had similar miles and was the same year (65K miles and 52 reg) - didn't put a foot wrong in the time I had it.Considering when I researched for 4 X 4's in that size with reliability as a big factor, it's no surprise that the freelander was one of the first off the list.
Delude yourself all you like, a freelander ain't ever going to win any awards for reliability.
Freelanders have two main failings - speaking from experience as someone who makes money from working on LRs....
a) Petrol Engine - well documented head gasket issues, which happen to be easy and cheap to fix so long as the owner hasn't melted his engine by racing it on no coolant (which will kill most engines wherever they come from). I bought my FL with head gasket failure for £400, fixed it for £100 and an afternoon of spannering. I wouldn't be able to say the same of a Mitsubishi 2.5 HG or Nissan 2.2di fuel pcv failure for example....
If you go diesel you avoid that issue altogether. Internet wisdom seems to work on the premise that if your Freelander so much as has a flat tyre - it's head gasket failure....
b) Driveline - the viscous unit tends to stiffen over time and often gives the driver plenty of warning that this is happening. It doesn't suddenly go pop one day out of the blue - the warning signs are noticeable and are there for quite a while (scrubbing tyres, really tight low-speed steering etc.). Swapping for a recon VCU will sort the issue for £200 and take an hour of bolting/unbolting - not exactly rocket science.
It wasn't the best system to be honest - LR didn't use the format for anything thereafter - but it isn't the 100% certain failure that people assume it is and it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of deciding to buy one. You could use the same argument for DMFs - which can go pop at similar mileages, cost way more to replace and give the owner no chance to prevent it's failure.
So don't necessarily write off the Freelander 1 - every petrol FL with more than 20K on the clock is not in actual fact a wallet-emptying timebomb (funny given how many R/S reg ones I see running around locally).
I believe the Quashqai and Juke use a similar ABS-sensor / electronic clutch system - but not many of them are subjected to off-road abuse in the same way that an X-Trail might be. Navara is an old-school mechanical system which is tough and capable - the older ones at any rate are great on farms and pretty robust.
Some of it with my vehicle may have been bad luck (Friday afternoon car?) - but other elements came down to design features such as the ABS/4WD system, small handbrake barely adequate for the weight of the vehicle, fickle throttle-position sensors and fuel suction-control valves that randomly let go and need Nissan dealer CONSULT systems to fix.
I should state that my X-Trail was perfectly competent on/off-road when it was behaving - for 90% of people's purposes it's perfectly fine. I'd probably recommend a 2.2di over a TD4 Freelander on the basis of better load-lugging space, better MPG, more kit as standard and better road handling - IF I hadn't had quite so many issues with the one I had.
Some of it with my vehicle may have been bad luck (Friday afternoon car?) - but other elements came down to design features such as the ABS/4WD system, small handbrake barely adequate for the weight of the vehicle, fickle throttle-position sensors and fuel suction-control valves that randomly let go and need Nissan dealer CONSULT systems to fix.
I should state that my X-Trail was perfectly competent on/off-road when it was behaving - for 90% of people's purposes it's perfectly fine. I'd probably recommend a 2.2di over a TD4 Freelander on the basis of better load-lugging space, better MPG, more kit as standard and better road handling - IF I hadn't had quite so many issues with the one I had.
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