What Proper 4x4 for mud/snow/ICE?

[sidekickdmr]

I was thinking about changing the current tyres to "AT" tyres anyway, as it wont be used for motorway driving or anything like that, thats what the Audi is for, so dont need to be grippy at speed/quiet/refined.

And then the winter wheels /tyres getting some proper snow and ice tyres, perhaps even spiked ones, as you say, not just winter tyres designed to get into the office down the M3.

[techguyone]

Is this really no good for you?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Spiked tyres seems a bit extreme for southern England, even in snow tbh.

[CaptainSlow]

N/A Forester or Impreza if not too small. I've had both and the Impreza with M&S tyres out performed all the local Landies and like.

[Hainey]

CaptainSlow said:

N/A Forester or Impreza if not too small. I've had both and the Impreza with M&S tyres out performed all the local Landies and like.

Did it. Really?

[CaptainSlow]

Yup it did. Also didn't leave an oil slick on my driveway.

[tenfour]

Surely an old Shogun is in budget, too? They're horrendous on road, but very capable off it.

[Hainey]

CaptainSlow said:

Yup it did. Also didn't leave an oil slick on my driveway.

My vet had a forester on town and country tyres when she started at our practice but after the first winter it was changed for an older discovery td5.

She said it was great on loose gravel type roads of the sort that were metalled but hadn't been maintained in decades but anything that involved deep ruts meant you were grinding the bottom of it due to the lack of ground clearance, and it didn't take much of a depth of wet sodden mud and an incline to stop it altogether. The winter in question was a very wet, temperate one. Eventually one evening when on call she got stuck in a road/track near a friends farm and the son had to pull her out with his 90. Hence the change to a Discovery.

All that considered is why I'm rather surprised at your assessment that your forester was better than all the local Landies as experience here is truly different. The forester is a capable car but it's exactly that, a car.

[CaptainSlow]

I said my Impreza was better than Landies, not the Forester, on snow/ice covered roads not offroad. The low weight was the biggest benefit, honestly it was fantastic in those conditions, gutless and dreadful for the other 360 days of the year though.

[300bhp/ton]

CaptainSlow said:

N/A Forester or Impreza if not too small. I've had both and the Impreza with M&S tyres out performed all the local Landies and like.

[300bhp/ton]

CaptainSlow said:

I said my Impreza was better than Landies, not the Forester, on snow/ice covered roads not offroad. The low weight was the biggest benefit, honestly it was fantastic in those conditions, gutless and dreadful for the other 360 days of the year though.

So what Landys did you drive to compare too or what situations where the Landies were no good.

[CaptainSlow]

I didn't drive any, I just passed them up them up the local hills. Appreciate there's a lot of Landie love in this section, to me they're just over priced oily rust buckets. Subarus are better on road and Toyotas are better off.

[HarryW]

richs2891 said:

Old shape Kia sorrento ?
The one with the proper ladder chassis and low range gear box
Maybe a little low out of the factory but a decent set of tyres makes up for it

For the budget this is a good shout.

[cheddar]

Whatever car you get fit these:

http://www.productreview.com.au/p/hankook-dynapro-...

They do mud, snow, gravel and tarmac, they don't cost much and last forever

[GravelBen]

Hainey said:

My vet had a forester on town and country tyres when she started at our practice but after the first winter it was changed for an older discovery td5.

She said it was great on loose gravel type roads of the sort that were metalled but hadn't been maintained in decades but anything that involved deep ruts meant you were grinding the bottom of it due to the lack of ground clearance, and it didn't take much of a depth of wet sodden mud and an incline to stop it altogether. The winter in question was a very wet, temperate one. Eventually one evening when on call she got stuck in a road/track near a friends farm and the son had to pull her out with his 90. Hence the change to a Discovery.

All that considered is why I'm rather surprised at your assessment that your forester was better than all the local Landies as experience here is truly different. The forester is a capable car but it's exactly that, a car.

A Forester has about the same ground clearance as most 'proper' 4wds to be honest (around 200mm), doesn't have the wheel articulation for proper rough terrain though. ETA: actually the original might have been lower come to think of it.

Traction in mud is always going to come down to tyres, a Defender (or similar) on the same tyres probably would have been just as stuck - but limited mud options available for Subaru sizes I guess.

All that aside, it sounds like the comparison to Landies was referring to snowy roads rather than off road work, which is quite believable - Forester having a good 4wd system with LSDs centre and rear (IIRC it is the rear LSD like the Outback and Legacy GT), on appropriate tyres will do very well in the snow.

Funny enough the vet practices where I live (rural southern NZ) mostly have fleets of Subaru Outbacks.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 2nd August 01:54

[spookly]

Jeep Cherokee.... mid size, diesel, proper 4wd system.

Example

You can pick one up for under £3500.

[300bhp/ton]

CaptainSlow said:

I didn't drive any, I just passed them up them up the local hills. Appreciate there's a lot of Landie love in this section, to me they're just over priced oily rust buckets. Subarus are better on road and Toyotas are better off.

So you overtook a Land Rover and that's your claim an Impreza is better in the snow...


Anyhow, for the record, this was very very good in the snow:


This was pretty darn good as well:


This went quite well too:


As was this:


And this:




Now this, it went fairly well in the snow:


Better than this, although this was surprisingly capable for what it is:



However the Impreza was not as capable, or confidence inspiring as any of the 4x4's in the snow. The lack of ground clearance being a major part of it. And yes we did do a side by side comparison....




A Freelander has independent suspension all round. So will ride a lot like the Subaru does, but has greater ground clearance. And importantly has traction control.

And yes, I have driven a Freelander in the snow too, and it went very very well.

Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 2nd August 09:52

[CaptainSlow]

Why are you talking about ground clearance and suspension? We're talking about on road driving. In addition that Impreza is a turbo model, I'm talking about the N/A models. Also, how many Landies can be bought for under £3.5k and be expected to start in the morning?

[GravelBen]

300bhp/ton said:

A Freelander has independent suspension all round. So will ride a lot like the Subaru does, but has greater ground clearance. And importantly has traction control. While the viscous centre diff on the Subaru does an admiral job, it still has open axle diffs.

Incorrect on that one - a Freelander has about the same clearance as a Forester or Outback, and many of the Subarus do have rear LSD and traction control as well. Does the Freelander have a proper full-time (or lockable centre) 4wd system, or is it just an on-demand setup that waits for the front wheels to spin before engaging the rear?

There is always some debate over whether TC systems are any good in loose snow anyway - some systems are more of a hindrance than a help as you lose momentum when they cut power or brake wheels, and in those situations you can get further with it turned off.

O/T, some of the more special Imprezas had LSD front and rear as well as a manually lockable centre (DCCD), but being the rally homologation versions they're a bit lower. Great drivetrain though.

Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 2nd August 10:06

[Lefty]

Forester on winter tyres. Seriously, they're awesome. We live 4 miles from the nearest road that gets cleared, at 180m ASL in rural NE Scotland. I've had loads of 4x4's and the Forester was superb in snow and ice.

[clunkbox]

Whatever you get, get something that will happily drive all four wheels on dry tarmac (or can switch without slowing/stopping). I drive a crew cab pickup which shouldn't be driven on dry tarmac in 4HI, so you end up staying in RWD on snowy roads with mixed conditions, which kind of defeats the point of having a 4x4 for driving on snowy roads.

I've been very impressed by a freelander in snow and off road. Ground clearance was mostly fine had slightly bigger than stock tyres and bash guards (not sure if they were stock - it was an ex-Vodafone van) and the only issue we had was the exhaust getting lifted up and falling off the hangers occasionally. Only downside was no low box but it a lot of situations you can get round it by carrying a bit more momentum.

cheddar said:

Whatever car you get fit these:

http://www.productreview.com.au/p/hankook-dynapro-...

They do mud, snow, gravel and tarmac, they don't cost much and last forever

Agreed. I've done 70,000 miles on these and they have been great, fine on road if a bit noisy. On our second set now and they still have plenty of life.