Defender 110 VS Toyota Land Cruuser?

Defender 110 VS Toyota Land Cruuser?

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Discussion

lostkiwi

4,584 posts

123 months

Tuesday 20th December 2016
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Its horses for courses.
I've had a 3.4 V6 Colorado which was a great vehicle for mile munching but definitely not in the same league as a Defender off tarmac.
The Defender is noisy and somewhat crude but is very capable when correctly set up (most people make the mistake of fitting much to stiff springs which ruins them - especially on 110s).

I've also had a V8 RRC and that was pretty much on a par with the Defender (rear overhang and ground clearance aside). Far more capable than most would credit.
Possibly the best off tarmac toy I've had was a lightly modified FC101 GS. With one of the rear leafs removed to soften the rear end (improves articulation no end) it was deeply impressive and with enough ground clearance to clear pretty much anything.

Several mates had Discovery 2s and with the right kit (proper manually locking centre diff) they were very very good - the traction control being very effective when combined with the centre diff lock.

The Land Cruiser 80 is a very capable beast and given the lockers fitted as standard can probably go through things better than a Defender but they are a big beast and (reliability issues aside) a Disco3 would probably be every bit as capable and less money. The amount of suspension travel on the D3 is phenomenal (12" from memory compared to a Defenders 9").

If you don't mind modifying things a Defender has to be the way to go - far more available, more versatile, and much cheaper to modify.

Psimpson7

1,071 posts

240 months

Wednesday 21st December 2016
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PugwasHDJ80 said:
comparisons
I am not sure all your figures are accurate tbh.

Approach angle on a standard 80 series books at 31 degrees
Defender is 49 degrees.
The LC has larger tyres only in your example. Standard it doesn't. A 3" lift is recommended to fit 35's on an 80 series whereas you can fit the same on a Defender with a 2" lift

I ran 35"s on standard drive train for years without many issues (2 broken long rear halfshafts - that's all)

Wading depth off the shelf on both is around 20" / 500mm. They are both poor compared to newer stuff, although I think that is the depth that they can be parked in and left running, unlike the newer cars for which the figures specify a constant speed. (new Ranger for instance I I think states 8kmh)

Not all 80 series cruisers have front and rear lockers. in fact most don't (and I live in Australia where there are a lot of them) They were an option at one stage but I am not sure how long for.

Having said that while I have Defenders, the 80 series is a very good 4wd. Either would go further than most people would ever need / want.

Reliability is going to be as much down to who ever owned it last and how well it was looked after when they get that old.

Ilovejapcrap

3,274 posts

111 months

Wednesday 21st December 2016
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Suzuki jimmy with 1.6 conversion and a LIft ?

Great fun

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Wednesday 21st December 2016
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Ayahuasca said:
I have owned BOTH a Land Cruiser and a Defender in a jungle environment. Not some short term crappy competition, but a normal day-to-day long term day after day slog in jungle. Mud, hills, trees, river crossings, the lot. The Defender 110 'walks all over' the Toyota.

So your 110 had cross axle locks a powerful six pot engine and build qualilty ???

PugwasHDJ80

7,522 posts

220 months

Wednesday 21st December 2016
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Psimpson7 said:
Not all 80 series cruisers have front and rear lockers. in fact most don't (and I live in Australia where there are a lot of them) They were an option at one stage but I am not sure how long for.

Having said that while I have Defenders, the 80 series is a very good 4wd. Either would go further than most people would ever need / want.

Reliability is going to be as much down to who ever owned it last and how well it was looked after when they get that old.
I tried to be as accurate as possible- its not always easy being totally objective smilebiggrin

In the UK, every 80 has front and rear lockers, it was standard spec!

Rust is the biggest problem with landrovers in the UK- in Australia it will be significantly less of a problem but its not uncommon to see a 5 year old defender with a rear cross member that is starting to rust through. Same with bulkheads (especially the corners), boot floors and doors- most 20 year old defenders will not be original. most 20 years 80 series will.

Certainlly LR got some things right- the LT230 is a masterstroke of design- the 300tdi is pretty good too, in fact the 300tdi and 4.2tdi are surprisingly similar (albeint the 4.2 being almost twice as large). The intake and injection systems are basically the same design (plus two inecjtors for the landcruiser)

LandRoverManiac

402 posts

91 months

Wednesday 21st December 2016
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PugwasHDJ80 said:
Rust is the biggest problem with landrovers in the UK- in Australia it will be significantly less of a problem but its not uncommon to see a 5 year old defender with a rear cross member that is starting to rust through. Same with bulkheads (especially the corners), boot floors and doors- most 20 year old defenders will not be original. most 20 years 80 series will.
I've owned all sorts of Landies ranging from 10 to 30 years in age - all of them on the original chassis, bulkhead, doors, floors, the lot. I don't normally get into the brand vs. brand argument often when it comes to 4x4s (most of it boils down to the driver and how looked-after the vehicle has been)....however....

If it's made of steel - it WILL rust if unprotected - doesn't matter what brand or how much people like to think that X company is better than Y company. Slapping a Toyota badge on the front of the vehicle does not endow it with magical rustproofing qualities or a miraculous immunity to air + water - Japanese engineering is pretty good but last time I checked it doesn't extend to rewriting the rules of Chemistry.

Land Cruisers will be as much a victim of our wonderful climate as much as any other vehicle - I've seen some atrocious examples of all makes that were barely roadworthy enough to make it to the local scrappy. A 20-year old Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Land Rover or Jeep will all rust in the UK climate assuming the owner takes no preventative steps such as waxoyl, etc.

This is from someone who spends a great deal of his work and spare time spannering on a variety of 4x4s of various makes.





jmsgld

1,010 posts

175 months

Friday 30th December 2016
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I have an 03 Landcruiser 100 series diesel Manual, fantastic beast, in 225k it has had a few windscreens and it blew a turbo at 90k but otherwise has just been service items, starts on the button every time, took it down to the south of France over the summer and would happily jump in it tomorrow and drive to Asia...

It may well be up for sale in the coming months, I'm hankering after another sports car. I'm smack bang in the middle of Dorset if you're interested.

Cheers, James

PugwasHDJ80

7,522 posts

220 months

Friday 30th December 2016
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LandRoverManiac said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Rust is the biggest problem with landrovers in the UK- in Australia it will be significantly less of a problem but its not uncommon to see a 5 year old defender with a rear cross member that is starting to rust through. Same with bulkheads (especially the corners), boot floors and doors- most 20 year old defenders will not be original. most 20 years 80 series will.
I've owned all sorts of Landies ranging from 10 to 30 years in age - all of them on the original chassis, bulkhead, doors, floors, the lot. I don't normally get into the brand vs. brand argument often when it comes to 4x4s (most of it boils down to the driver and how looked-after the vehicle has been)....however....

If it's made of steel - it WILL rust if unprotected - doesn't matter what brand or how much people like to think that X company is better than Y company. Slapping a Toyota badge on the front of the vehicle does not endow it with magical rustproofing qualities or a miraculous immunity to air + water - Japanese engineering is pretty good but last time I checked it doesn't extend to rewriting the rules of Chemistry.

Land Cruisers will be as much a victim of our wonderful climate as much as any other vehicle - I've seen some atrocious examples of all makes that were barely roadworthy enough to make it to the local scrappy. A 20-year old Nissan, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Land Rover or Jeep will all rust in the UK climate assuming the owner takes no preventative steps such as waxoyl, etc.

This is from someone who spends a great deal of his work and spare time spannering on a variety of 4x4s of various makes.
Agreed, but then the chassis and body work of all 80 series are galvinized.

Even the bolts used are zinc passivated!

you can't re-write the rules of physics but you can take basic precautions- LR really should have moved beyond painted box sections for the chassis whilst creatin ali/steel galvanic corrosion.

TheValk

50 posts

124 months

Sunday 1st January 2017
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FWIW-
Bought a new Defender TD5 in 2003 as I was quite prepared to live with the appalling ergonomics and it was the only 2 door vehicle available at the time, (I wanted a 2 door). Kept it for 11 years. Rear axles plus discs replaced, failed ignition, failed accelerator electronics (all fixed under warrantee) plus fuel pump failed, broken rocker arm (causing major damage), broken fuel injector, clutch kit etc etc. Too far in $/wise to just move it on. Everybody else liked it. Recently sold for a v good price (in good condition all round)at 250,000kms.

Bought a 2nd-hand Toyota Landcruiser 105 non-turbo/solid axle diesel- this has to be the best car (of very many over the years)I have ever owned. Easy maintenance, cheap online parts if needed, great ride, goes anywhere on/off road, lots of room etc etc.
Only negative- uses more fuel (it would, having more cylinders for a start).

In the outback, there's good reasons my Defender was a real rarity/novelty whenever we travelled there, and most vehicles are Toyota 4wd's.
Just my 2c worth.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Sunday 1st January 2017
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TheValk said:
FWIW-
Bought a new Defender TD5 in 2003 as I was quite prepared to live with the appalling ergonomics and it was the only 2 door vehicle available at the time, (I wanted a 2 door). Kept it for 11 years. Rear axles plus discs replaced, failed ignition, failed accelerator electronics (all fixed under warrantee) plus fuel pump failed, broken rocker arm (causing major damage), broken fuel injector, clutch kit etc etc. Too far in $/wise to just move it on. Everybody else liked it. Recently sold for a v good price (in good condition all round)at 250,000kms.

Bought a 2nd-hand Toyota Landcruiser 105 non-turbo/solid axle diesel- this has to be the best car (of very many over the years)I have ever owned. Easy maintenance, cheap online parts if needed, great ride, goes anywhere on/off road, lots of room etc etc.
Only negative- uses more fuel (it would, having more cylinders for a start).

In the outback, there's good reasons my Defender was a real rarity/novelty whenever we travelled there, and most vehicles are Toyota 4wd's.
Just my 2c worth.
The thing is you guys need a reliable 4x4, over here reliability isn't life or death so we buy things on image and for fun when a landrover breaks down here it makes a good story to tell in the pub !! if it fails in the outback you might die from dehydration , horses for courses and all that , mind I'd rather push a toyota than drive a landrover biggrin

Psimpson7

1,071 posts

240 months

Sunday 1st January 2017
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I use my Defender(s) for heaps of outback travelling and they have been pretty much faultless while on trips.

You see quite a few Defenders outback in Australia still, albeit plenty more of other makes and models

LandRoverManiac

402 posts

91 months

Sunday 1st January 2017
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Your mileage may vary.

In three years my old 1990 Defender needed brake light bulbs and a new exhaust - that was it. The guy round the corner from me had his newer Defender for less than 8 months - it spent more time on the back of a low-loader with various failures and breakdowns than you could shake a stick at. With LRs you tend to either get a 'good'un' that will be a keeper or one that will become the bane of your life. The good ones are easily the match reliability/capability-wise of any other 4x4 on the planet - the bad ones... less so.

Japanese build quality is somewhat more consistent - entire model lines are either universally good (Toyota Hilux) or uniformly foul (Nissan Terrano).

Thankfully I'm currently on a good Landy, previously had a perfectly reliable petrol Freelander (shock horror), so am probably well overdue according to the Law of Sod for getting a lemon next.

PotHoleHater

Original Poster:

2,604 posts

224 months

Sunday 1st January 2017
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jmsgld said:
I have an 03 Landcruiser 100 series diesel Manual, fantastic beast, in 225k it has had a few windscreens and it blew a turbo at 90k but otherwise has just been service items, starts on the button every time, took it down to the south of France over the summer and would happily jump in it tomorrow and drive to Asia...

It may well be up for sale in the coming months, I'm hankering after another sports car. I'm smack bang in the middle of Dorset if you're interested.

Cheers, James
Hmmm, *rubs chin*, I could be tempted. Drop me a line when the time comes :-)

308mate

13,757 posts

221 months

Monday 2nd January 2017
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Ayahuasca said:
To be fair, my Toyota is a Land Cruiser Prado, not as hardcore as an 80.

Fell out of love with it when it let me down during a river crossing 'hiccup' resulting in a trashed transmission. $15,000 for a new transmission. Wife likes it for the school run though.
Did you neglect to seal up the breather or something?

I'd take a 105 or 85 series Land Cruiser over anything. Second would be a Hilux. The 110 has its uses but has an uncomfortable driving position, lacks creature comforts and will be no more reliable than the Cruiser, despite having less to go wrong. One thing I will say is that DIY maintenance on the 110 might be easier, but there isn't much in it if you get the 4.2 non turbo diesel Cruiser. 110 is mainly easier for swapping damaged body panels if need be.

If I had to put my life in the hands of one car after the apocalypse, it would be a diesel Land cruiser. Hence they are the default for every Australian mine, the UN and every middle eastern terrorist or African freedom fighter. biggrin


Edited by 308mate on Monday 2nd January 21:55

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Monday 2nd January 2017
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LandRoverManiac said:
Japanese build quality is somewhat more consistent - entire model lines are either universally good (Toyota Hilux) or uniformly foul (Nissan Terrano).
Do you mean the Spanish-made 'Terrano II' (aka Mistral)? The Japanese Terrano (aka Pathfinder) was pretty well built, though obviously not as rugged as a Patrol or Landcruiser.

PaulJC84

922 posts

216 months

Thursday 5th January 2017
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I was thinking a Patrol would perhaps be another option. They seem to be liked in desert climates.

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Friday 6th January 2017
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PaulJC84 said:
I was thinking a Patrol would perhaps be another option. They seem to be liked in desert climates.
Yes good apart from the engine options !!! we got the 4.2 six non turbo diesel or petrol , then they put in a feeble 2.8 turbo diesel then a
ho hum 3 liter four pot.. I had a SWB 2.8 GR patrol, great apart from the fuel consumption and performance ...

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Friday 6th January 2017
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The TD42 turbo Patrol/Safari are fantastic trucks, I'd have one over an equivalent Landcruiser. The TD42 non turbo are still built like a tank and very capable but as slow as... well, as slow as a 4.2d non turbo Landcruiser I guess. The RD28 was pretty weedy, the ZD30 makes decent power but is a bit of a hand grenade.

Stronger drivetrains than the Toyotas, people have been known to transplant Patrol diffs and axles into Landcruisers when they break the originals.

Its quite funny to compare the diffs actually - the rear diff in my Terrano is the same as the front diff in a Patrol, but it still makes the Hilux/Surf rear look puny. Nissan certainly didn't skimp in that department.

Timbuktu

1,953 posts

154 months

Friday 6th January 2017
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If comfort is one of your priorities then there is only one of the two you should actually be considering. The two are leagues apart.

There's a reason every Defender you see is driven by someone with their elbow hanging out of the window come rain or shine - because there's no where to rest it inside.

I love Defenders, I've had two myself but they are such a pain to live with.

Landcruiser ftw. When my Jeep finally dies that's what I'll be replacing it with.

Ayahuasca

27,427 posts

278 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I have never felt the need for additional arm support in my Defender. If the window is up, and I feel the need to lean an elbow, it fits into the angle between the window and the door. Same as any other car.

Normally, I drive with both hands on the wheel (thumbs out of course) and don't need to rest an elbow anyway.

I have heard this 'fault' before, but cannot understand it.

Unless the complainers are all fat bds.