Entering Motorsport - Does this budget look right??

Entering Motorsport - Does this budget look right??

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Discussion

pistol pete

804 posts

262 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
Last time I was at Castle Combe, cheap racing seemed to be all about Rover 200/MG ZR's. There were loads of them -which is what you need for an interesting race.

If you want cheap as chips racing, I don't think you will find a cheaper series than the metro cup. 25-30 car grids & very restrictive regs make for interesting racing whichever class you are in and where ever you are in the field. Unfortunately, we are not at Combe this year. We are at brands on the 5th/6th of May, then at Mallory for the televised race day at the start of June.
For comparison, a "new engine" to most of us comes straight out a rover 25 in a breakers, standard brakes (not even grooved discs), etc help restrict costs a lot. And theres at least one race ready car been sold for sub 1500 this year.


Whatever you decide to race, spend as much time in the paddock as possible & get every bit of information you can from the current drivers/put crews before spending money.

ktm301p

Original Poster:

746 posts

188 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
pistol pete said:
Last time I was at Castle Combe, cheap racing seemed to be all about Rover 200/MG ZR's. There were loads of them -which is what you need for an interesting race.

If you want cheap as chips racing, I don't think you will find a cheaper series than the metro cup. 25-30 car grids & very restrictive regs make for interesting racing whichever class you are in and where ever you are in the field. Unfortunately, we are not at Combe this year. We are at brands on the 5th/6th of May, then at Mallory for the televised race day at the start of June.
For comparison, a "new engine" to most of us comes straight out a rover 25 in a breakers, standard brakes (not even grooved discs), etc help restrict costs a lot. And theres at least one race ready car been sold for sub 1500 this year.


Whatever you decide to race, spend as much time in the paddock as possible & get every bit of information you can from the current drivers/put crews before spending money.
Thanks for the post! I found what you just said to be rather encouraging. I was watching the MG races at combe last year and thought they looked really exciting. I suppose part of us quite fancied the idea of getting something that was mid-engined and RWD! However, this the Metros are definitely worth some thought... Cheers!

anonymous-user

53 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
ktm301p said:
Thanks, an engine rebuild would be considered given your point on the pace of the car. However, before we rushed straight into an engine rebuild, a dyno run to test the power of the car would show how much power had been lost since when it was new. I think for the first race or two, it might be an idea to test the car to see if it really is off the pace to the other competitors.
fair point, a rolling road/dyno test is £150 or thereabouts and they might do some basic set up work for that too. that gives you a a baseline, if you have a strong engine, any lack of pace is down to you or the car set up, if you have a dog of an engine, well, you know where you stand!....

Also dont use a race weekend as a test session either, its a very expensive way to test a car and you will get no time to adjust things given you will only get 15 mins or thereabouts qualifying before the race. a proper midweeek test session is the only way to really set up a car and make changes.

bqf

2,226 posts

170 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
I haven't read all 3 pages to be honest, so I am sure this has been said before, but £200 for equipment yikes

If you triple that you are pushing it. Don't spend £200 on second hand safety gear, really.

Why not leave it a year and put some cash away - just do some Karting in the meantime. Generally, Racing never responds well to budget-keeping - it's ruinous.

ktm301p

Original Poster:

746 posts

188 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
bqf said:
I haven't read all 3 pages to be honest, so I am sure this has been said before, but £200 for equipment yikes

If you triple that you are pushing it. Don't spend £200 on second hand safety gear, really.

Why not leave it a year and put some cash away - just do some Karting in the meantime. Generally, Racing never responds well to budget-keeping - it's ruinous.
Thanks, but your point has been made in all 3 of the pages now! hehe

bqf

2,226 posts

170 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
That'll teach me for not reading all 3 pages hehe

jagracer

8,248 posts

235 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
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ktm301p said:
Thanks, but your point has been made in all 3 of the pages now! hehe
bqf said:
That'll teach me for not reading all 3 pages hehe
No, that'll teach you for not reading any of them. laugh

bqf

2,226 posts

170 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
jagracer said:
ktm301p said:
Thanks, but your point has been made in all 3 of the pages now! hehe
bqf said:
That'll teach me for not reading all 3 pages hehe
No, that'll teach you for not reading any of them. laugh
hehe tis indeed true!

SmartVenom

462 posts

168 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
Hi,

I'd just like to add to the argument for buying a car where the work is done already. This really is the best way to go, there are so many little things that you need to do that all add up. It's also nice to know that your car will be allowed on the grid and won't fail for something fairly small (you can probably fix that at the track but do you want that before a race).

I also reckon if you buy a car you'll get a race in this year, less likely if you build one.

I'm at work so can't really check now but I'm sure the forums at red dragon have a fair few MR2s advertised, starting from around £2.5K.

Also fairly sure the one you linked to from the sales ads wouldn't be allowed as its a turbo, although I may be wrong on that.

All the best and good luck getting on the grid.

Rob

TomR91

14 posts

157 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
I race Mk1 Mr2's in the Red Dragon series, First season last year, I'll give you a brief breakdown of what you have to consider.

The entry fee's are set, so you can budget that, but be aware that you will need a transponder at each of these meetings - £30 to hire at each meeting or buy one for around £350. Doesn't sound much but its £270 a year to hire.

Race license depends where you do it, best to have a trackday beforehand though.

DON'T buy a second hand helmet, ever. May sound silly but you don't want to find out its been dropped previously when your heading for a barrier. This isn't scaremongering, just fact. Overalls, maybe. Just make sure they're in good condition. Also be aware that Fireproof gloves and shoes have been made mandatory this year so there's a few more £££

You haven't factored in travel either, probably what costs me the most per year. How will you be getting you and the car to the circuit, This years circuits range from Brands hatch to Pembrey to Cadwell so quite a lot of country to cover! Some drive to the circuit, or you need a trailer and something to pull it with. So include the fuel to get there, it adds up. Or pay someone else to do it.

Tyres, hard to say how many you'll get through in a Mk2, Budget for 3 sets and you won't be far wrong. You have to buy from a single supplier in the red dragon series though so check their prices.

Then you can start pricing for your car... There are plenty around race prepped, or track prepared and need a little work to get up to standard. Make it reliable and safe before spending money on parts, do this as and upgrade when you can throughout the season.

Best thing to do is to have a wonder around the paddock and chat to the people you'll be potentially racing with, we're at Donnington on the 18th May, Or just have a wonder to your local circuit when somethings on. Motorsport people are generally quite friendly smile

Hope this helps - PM me if you want anymore details.

TomR91

14 posts

157 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
As a note to my post above.

The thrill far outweighs any costs, pure and simply, If you can afford it, do it!

dapearson

4,252 posts

223 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
^^^^^
What he said. Approach people racing in whatever series you're interested in. Most people in club racing are friendly and approachable (in fact the rich ones in my experience are the grumpy ones and live in a different world), so just turn up and ask, post on forums (more specific than this if poss) and learn from those that have taken the leap already.

Personally i'd rate the caterham graduates club (www.graduates.org.uk), but i'm biased, just as everyone in a club already will be...

ktm301p

Original Poster:

746 posts

188 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
SmartVenom said:
Hi,

I'd just like to add to the argument for buying a car where the work is done already. This really is the best way to go, there are so many little things that you need to do that all add up. It's also nice to know that your car will be allowed on the grid and won't fail for something fairly small (you can probably fix that at the track but do you want that before a race).

Rob
Thanks Rob, after the comments on this thread and chatting with my father on the subject. We have decided that we're definitely going for a track prepared car!

ktm301p

Original Poster:

746 posts

188 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
TomR91 said:
I race Mk1 Mr2's in the Red Dragon series, First season last year, I'll give you a brief breakdown of what you have to consider.

The entry fee's are set, so you can budget that, but be aware that you will need a transponder at each of these meetings - £30 to hire at each meeting or buy one for around £350. Doesn't sound much but its £270 a year to hire.

Race license depends where you do it, best to have a trackday beforehand though.

DON'T buy a second hand helmet, ever. May sound silly but you don't want to find out its been dropped previously when your heading for a barrier. This isn't scaremongering, just fact. Overalls, maybe. Just make sure they're in good condition. Also be aware that Fireproof gloves and shoes have been made mandatory this year so there's a few more £££

You haven't factored in travel either, probably what costs me the most per year. How will you be getting you and the car to the circuit, This years circuits range from Brands hatch to Pembrey to Cadwell so quite a lot of country to cover! Some drive to the circuit, or you need a trailer and something to pull it with. So include the fuel to get there, it adds up. Or pay someone else to do it.

Tyres, hard to say how many you'll get through in a Mk2, Budget for 3 sets and you won't be far wrong. You have to buy from a single supplier in the red dragon series though so check their prices.

Then you can start pricing for your car... There are plenty around race prepped, or track prepared and need a little work to get up to standard. Make it reliable and safe before spending money on parts, do this as and upgrade when you can throughout the season.

Best thing to do is to have a wonder around the paddock and chat to the people you'll be potentially racing with, we're at Donnington on the 18th May, Or just have a wonder to your local circuit when somethings on. Motorsport people are generally quite friendly smile

Hope this helps - PM me if you want anymore details.
Thank you for taking the time to contribute the advice! Your right, I'll make a revised budget taking into account more realistic costs for equipment (i.e. A brand new helmet not secondhand!) and for tyres and transport. In regard to your point about making the car safe, that would be our top priority. Rollcage, harnessed race seats, fire extinguisher etc would all be in place. I will be sure to have a walk round and chat to a few people when I am next at an event in Castle Combe! Should I be asking these people how they prepare their cars, more questions on budget and the practicalities of racing do you think?

Thanks!



ktm301p

Original Poster:

746 posts

188 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
We would just like to thank everyone that has contributed so far for taking the time to give their advice and opinions! thumbup

Alex & Jeremy

dreamer75

1,401 posts

227 months

Thursday 26th April 2012
quotequote all
When I worked out the costs, including a test day and possibly an extra track day, plus race entries, consumables, travel to the circuit, hotels etc., I worked it out to be about £1k/round (e.g. double header).

Less if no testing. More if you crash or break something.

This was racing a Caterham Mega in the Grads.

I think your fuel might be optimistic - remember to include fuel to tow the car there/back, as well as testing, qualy and race fuel.

dapearson

4,252 posts

223 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
dreamer75 said:
When I worked out the costs, including a test day and possibly an extra track day, plus race entries, consumables, travel to the circuit, hotels etc., I worked it out to be about £1k/round (e.g. double header).

Less if no testing. More if you crash or break something.

This was racing a Caterham Mega in the Grads.

I think your fuel might be optimistic - remember to include fuel to tow the car there/back, as well as testing, qualy and race fuel.
Hi Jo,

Yeah, £1k/round was roughly what i ended up paying per double-header in Megas. Classics is working out to be around £500/round so far, but that's with no damage/maintenance or testing.

DP


dreamer75

1,401 posts

227 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
dapearson said:
Hi Jo,

Yeah, £1k/round was roughly what i ended up paying per double-header in Megas. Classics is working out to be around £500/round so far, but that's with no damage/maintenance or testing.

DP
Time to sell and buy a Classic!!! Was contemplating Sigma.... I figure the difference in car price is offset by gearboxes!!!

dapearson

4,252 posts

223 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
dreamer75 said:
Time to sell and buy a Classic!!! Was contemplating Sigma.... I figure the difference in car price is offset by gearboxes!!!
I spent £10k on 8 races in Megas, but that included 3 gearbox rebuilds and transport/prep by Ben Rockey.

I'm doing classics on a shoe-string. No testing apart from Anglesey, staying at friends houses or v cheap B&Bs. One set of tyres will last me all season too.

Classics are in a different league of running costs to megas!!

Greensleeves

1,235 posts

202 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
I'm with TomR in the Red Dragon Mr2s and we have a whale of a time. (should that be wail?)

I built my car from a road car in 2009 and it cost me more than it should have done. I wish I knew then what I know now. Probably about 3 grand all in.

My engine, with 112k miles on the clock lasted almost a season before the head gasket went and when we stripped it, there was not much wrong with it. It had a new gasket and is still racing now in someone else's car. I had an engine rebuilt professionally for 600 quid and it's still going well two years later.

You can't do much to the Mr2s but the suspension is free so we lower them and stick uprated shocks in them and wind them to full negative camber. The guy who is currently doing the best in the series drives his car to the events.

You'll currently buy a car for 2.5k ready to race but some more developed cars will set you back in advance of 4 grand.

Last month's Bratch meeting cost me about 80 quid in diesel for the van, 30 quid's worth of Optimax for the racer, 295 for the entry fee and I bought a set of tyres which came to almost 400 quid which I'm hoping will do three or more meetings. I also double up and do the Nippon Challenge as well which adds to the costs and reduces the tyre life. Additional expense was a slab of beer for Saturday night and a few quid for food at the paddock cafe.

If you disregard having to buy a donor vehicle to repair the car after hitting Nathan on lap 10 of race 1 and the couple of weeks to repair the cars, that's about the strength of it. I'm told the Mk2s are a little bit cheaper to run? Not sure.

http://youtu.be/PZPKtiORiPM

Good close racing throughout the grid as well.