"Modern Classics" 40 minute race series
Discussion
Woof ended up DNF after 30 laps - don't know what happened there. Don't tell me you've blown the engine up again, mate?! I see Dave Whelan listed too, running his fabulous yellow Porsche 993 RSR - he finished 5th overall, 3rd in class.
Full results:
http://tsl-timing.com/cscc/2013/131964cmc.pdf
Full results:
http://tsl-timing.com/cscc/2013/131964cmc.pdf
Hey chaps
I had an off into Surtees. Not sure if i had a failure or my ambition exceeded my talent - but broken toe arm with some minor body damage.
Lot's of positives from the weekend. Great start, good race craft throughout. Traffic was hard work, sorry for the rub i gave the 968 into Druids.
It was impossible to compete against the BMW's - 2secs a lap faster and the 30sec success penalty meant 5th would've been the best possible result.
We're not actually out again with CSCC till maybe August.
(Engine was fine - it was just a scheduled re build)
I had an off into Surtees. Not sure if i had a failure or my ambition exceeded my talent - but broken toe arm with some minor body damage.
Lot's of positives from the weekend. Great start, good race craft throughout. Traffic was hard work, sorry for the rub i gave the 968 into Druids.
It was impossible to compete against the BMW's - 2secs a lap faster and the 30sec success penalty meant 5th would've been the best possible result.
We're not actually out again with CSCC till maybe August.
(Engine was fine - it was just a scheduled re build)
woof said:
Hey chaps
I had an off into Surtees. Not sure if i had a failure or my ambition exceeded my talent - but broken toe arm with some minor body damage.
Lot's of positives from the weekend. Great start, good race craft throughout. Traffic was hard work, sorry for the rub i gave the 968 into Druids.
It was impossible to compete against the BMW's - 2secs a lap faster and the 30sec success penalty meant 5th would've been the best possible result.
We're not actually out again with CSCC till maybe August.
(Engine was fine - it was just a scheduled re build)
Shame that you are not out for a while.I had an off into Surtees. Not sure if i had a failure or my ambition exceeded my talent - but broken toe arm with some minor body damage.
Lot's of positives from the weekend. Great start, good race craft throughout. Traffic was hard work, sorry for the rub i gave the 968 into Druids.
It was impossible to compete against the BMW's - 2secs a lap faster and the 30sec success penalty meant 5th would've been the best possible result.
We're not actually out again with CSCC till maybe August.
(Engine was fine - it was just a scheduled re build)
The majority of the BMWs should be quicker than you really - they are in a different class for that reason. You should only be fighting with the 3 litre BMWs & 968s etc.
We're all in class D ?
I think the class structure probably needs re looking at and perhaps the rules on running non production aero needs tightening up a bit. Not sure why Card/Card weren't allowed to compete anymore because of their aero but Houlbrock/Ball, Maxsted/Starkey etc were able to race
Maybe they need their own class - or make it 100% clear. No non production aero.
Regardless. It's a great series, nice atmosphere - thoroughly enjoyed the races.
oh - and mention for the marshals.
Even though my off was a small one - I noticed the great reactions from the marshals checking that I was OK with the thumbs up.
I think the class structure probably needs re looking at and perhaps the rules on running non production aero needs tightening up a bit. Not sure why Card/Card weren't allowed to compete anymore because of their aero but Houlbrock/Ball, Maxsted/Starkey etc were able to race
Maybe they need their own class - or make it 100% clear. No non production aero.
Regardless. It's a great series, nice atmosphere - thoroughly enjoyed the races.
oh - and mention for the marshals.
Even though my off was a small one - I noticed the great reactions from the marshals checking that I was OK with the thumbs up.
Edited by woof on Tuesday 7th May 12:00
The 3 litrre BMWs are in Class D along with the Boxsters and 968s etc. All over 3 litre BMWs are in the next Class up, E, so you were not in the same class fight.
Aero is always a bone of contention. I wasn't at Brands but the Moulton-Smith car, for eg at Snetterton, is deemed to have aero that is acceptable. A Porsche 996 can have the GT3 Mk1 aero kit fitted as its available to buy from a Porsche dealer as an option.
We have not allowed in several cars whose aero is deemed to be outside the regs. The club has always had a little latitude and some will criticise this but we take the view that cars have to be in the spitit of the regs & that can be open to interpretation. We don't enmploy eligibility scrutineers in order to save cost and hassle and try to pass those savings on to our mebers with good VfM entry fees. We'd rather have a full grid than a small grid of cars that are measured to within an inch of their lives. It's club motorsport so we try to be as inclusive as possible.
We also have the penalty system for outright winners so things even themselves up after a while.
People do get exercised about aero but no one minds that our regs allow engine development.
Hopefully it all works out well enough in the end & everyone enjoys their racing with us. There is no pretence that we have any sort of equivelance formula, its a simple class system based on crude capacity breaks only.
Aero is always a bone of contention. I wasn't at Brands but the Moulton-Smith car, for eg at Snetterton, is deemed to have aero that is acceptable. A Porsche 996 can have the GT3 Mk1 aero kit fitted as its available to buy from a Porsche dealer as an option.
We have not allowed in several cars whose aero is deemed to be outside the regs. The club has always had a little latitude and some will criticise this but we take the view that cars have to be in the spitit of the regs & that can be open to interpretation. We don't enmploy eligibility scrutineers in order to save cost and hassle and try to pass those savings on to our mebers with good VfM entry fees. We'd rather have a full grid than a small grid of cars that are measured to within an inch of their lives. It's club motorsport so we try to be as inclusive as possible.
We also have the penalty system for outright winners so things even themselves up after a while.
People do get exercised about aero but no one minds that our regs allow engine development.
Hopefully it all works out well enough in the end & everyone enjoys their racing with us. There is no pretence that we have any sort of equivelance formula, its a simple class system based on crude capacity breaks only.
Well after the brands meeting i must say i dont know what to do. Luke and i really enjoy our racing. The problem i have is that i had made my mind up to move over to future classics. And now i dont know what to do. I have got to know a lot of the guys in m/c and they are a really nice bunch. The aero thing is bugging me a bit, but in reality i dont know if it would slow the cars down without them. I can understand the concerns of woof.And i think if i were him i would go with the attitude of if you cant beat them join them. or you could just say full aero kits allowed and that would be the end of the argument. It would not help us, as we have not got the power to carry the extra weight.Anyway i have gone completely of track now. So what do we do M/C or F/C??? Bazz
BAZZ69 said:
Well after the brands meeting i must say i dont know what to do. Luke and i really enjoy our racing. The problem i have is that i had made my mind up to move over to future classics. And now i dont know what to do. I have got to know a lot of the guys in m/c and they are a really nice bunch. The aero thing is bugging me a bit, but in reality i dont know if it would slow the cars down without them. I can understand the concerns of woof.And i think if i were him i would go with the attitude of if you cant beat them join them. or you could just say full aero kits allowed and that would be the end of the argument. It would not help us, as we have not got the power to carry the extra weight.Anyway i have gone completely of track now. So what do we do M/C or F/C??? Bazz
We run in the BRSCC Porsche champs - so we have to run 100% standard cars. Well apart from the upgraded brakes and suspension. Of course engine power is important. I'm running around 270BHP and they left me standing still on the straights. At a guess the BMW's are running 320-350BHP (when Card was running on just 5 cylinders is was still keeping up with me) and the aero helps them through corners and gives them better tyre life as well. It's not my battle as I said we're not due to do that much more this year anyway but I do hope the series is jiggled around a bit and perhaps it's not just the winners that get the success penalty.
woof said:
It's not my battle as I said we're not due to do that much more this year anyway but I do hope the series is jiggled around a bit and perhaps it's not just the winners that get the success penalty.
Nothing is ever perfect and its impossible to please everyone all of the time. The MC regs were "jiggled around a bit" to answer to concerns and criticisms of the Deutsche Marque crowd when that was the series. ie the club listened to its members. The class splits were specifically adjusted to keep the Boxsters and 968s separate from the 3.2 BMWS as the Porsche racers made it clear they didn't want to race against them. They aren't now, they are in a separate class. See you later in the year, hopefully.
woof said:
We're all in class D ?
I think the class structure probably needs re looking at and perhaps the rules on running non production aero needs tightening up a bit. Not sure why Card/Card weren't allowed to compete anymore because of their aero but Houlbrock/Ball, Maxsted/Starkey etc were able to race
Maybe they need their own class - or make it 100% clear. No non production aero.
Sorry to hear you went off & I hope the damage isn't too significant that you're back out soon. I hear your point on the BMW's so let me make a couple of points on that:I think the class structure probably needs re looking at and perhaps the rules on running non production aero needs tightening up a bit. Not sure why Card/Card weren't allowed to compete anymore because of their aero but Houlbrock/Ball, Maxsted/Starkey etc were able to race
Maybe they need their own class - or make it 100% clear. No non production aero.
The Card car was deemed ineligible for running the E36 supertourer rear wing at Snetterton - to my knowledge this component was never made available on the E46 so is outside of the regs of the CSCC Modern Classics as I understand them.
As I saw it at Brands Hatch last Monday every E36 ran aero that was within the regulations, there wasn't anything that wasn't available from a UK BMW dealer at the time and specific to that model of car. That said , the aero & specifically the high level rear wing as was on the E36's running on Monday really doesn't make that much difference and in fact the high level spoiler works a little against the car unless you're are really high speed circuits. The car with the craziest & most questionable aero was probably that 993RSR but I don't really mind either way, just nice to see a car like that out there.
In terms of power the BMW's have.... well, the Smith car was probably running 210bhp per ton as it's a Class-B spec Kumho car. The Houlbrook car and Marcussen car were closer to 235bhp per ton assuming they were still in Class-A Kumho trim (well the Houlbrook car certainly was) and I would think the Maxted car was also similar in power to weight to a class-A Kumho. I doubt that's a million miles away from the power to weight of a Boxster if it makes 270bhp.
Mostly the BMW's at the front are just quick because they are a great & well developed chassis and the cars out there at the front have spent an awful lot of time testing and dialing in to work as race cars. Also in many cases the drivers have been pedalling them for some time. What about the E46 CSL or the E36 M3's further back down the field on Monday.. the ones that didn't go very fast? I know for a fact the E46 CSL used to be a very rapid car back when it was driven by my old team mate years ago.
Anyway at the end of it all the CSCC MC is a specific format with clearly defined (yet simple) rules - I think the time penalty system is a great way to level the playing field over time, even if it does dilute the real racing element a bit.
Edited by houlbt on Tuesday 7th May 23:08
houlbt said:
The Card car was deemed in eligible for running the E36 supertourer rear wing at Snetterton - to my knowledge this component was never made available on the E46 so is outside of the regs of the CSCC Modern Classics as I understand them.
The car with the craziest & most questionable aero was probably that 993RSR but I don't really mind either way, just nice to see a car like that out there.
The Card car was, sadly, not deemed eligible at Snetterton and ran as an Invitation Class car. It has to change its aero to run in MC in the future.The car with the craziest & most questionable aero was probably that 993RSR but I don't really mind either way, just nice to see a car like that out there.
The 993 RSR has a body kit that is eligible because its a dealer available option for a 993 road car in that form.
andy97 said:
The Card car was, sadly, not deemed eligible at Snetterton and ran as an Invitation Class car. It has to change its aero to run in MC in the future.
The 993 RSR has a body kit that is eligible because its a dealer available option for a 993 road car in that form.
y.. what I meant The 993 RSR has a body kit that is eligible because its a dealer available option for a 993 road car in that form.
snowen250 said:
woof said:
snowen250 said:
I thought the race was great, very enjoyable.
Woof which car were you in?
Simon
The White/black Boxster Woof which car were you in?
Simon
What about you ?
Simon
We're out at Silverstone this weekend and then Snetterton 750MC Roadsports on the 26th May - pop by and say hello
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff