Mallory Park closure threat!!
Discussion
It doesn't does it?
Maybe a closure, with the subsequent loss of jobs and local upset (there are always two sides in these arguments, those who make money or otherwise depend on the circuits and those who don't) is going to be needed to make people properly assess the value of the places.
Maybe someone should start assessing the nuisance caused by football matches every weekend?
Maybe a closure, with the subsequent loss of jobs and local upset (there are always two sides in these arguments, those who make money or otherwise depend on the circuits and those who don't) is going to be needed to make people properly assess the value of the places.
Maybe someone should start assessing the nuisance caused by football matches every weekend?
spikey78 said:
Not true according to the owner-some kind of weird hoax apparently..
As you were!
The noise restictions required would make the track unsustainable, so selling it for say 8 million would be attractive.As you were!
http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detail.cfm?newst...
Off Faceache:
Ian Flux
i have just put the phone down from chris meek who owns mallory park,and use to sponsor tom pryce who died today 26 years ago,no one has approached him about selling mallory and the£8 mill mentioned in mcn would not even be the deposit!! so straight from the horses mouth..
Ian Flux
i have just put the phone down from chris meek who owns mallory park,and use to sponsor tom pryce who died today 26 years ago,no one has approached him about selling mallory and the£8 mill mentioned in mcn would not even be the deposit!! so straight from the horses mouth..
spikey78 said:
Off Faceache:
Ian Flux
i have just put the phone down from chris meek who owns mallory park,and use to sponsor tom pryce who died today 26 years ago,no one has approached him about selling mallory and the£8 mill mentioned in mcn would not even be the deposit!! so straight from the horses mouth..
Ian Flux was used to race touring cars?Ian Flux
i have just put the phone down from chris meek who owns mallory park,and use to sponsor tom pryce who died today 26 years ago,no one has approached him about selling mallory and the£8 mill mentioned in mcn would not even be the deposit!! so straight from the horses mouth..
I posted this in a thread last November when things started to come to a head
"Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
"Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
covboy said:
I posted this in a thread last November when things started to come to a head
"Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
The circuit is a business. They sound like they are trying to be a productive business within the strict guidelines they have set out for them. They would be cap business people if they didn't."Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
NiMbys complaining at legitimate, legal stuff. Typical.
Life Saab Itch said:
covboy said:
I posted this in a thread last November when things started to come to a head
"Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
The circuit is a business. They sound like they are trying to be a productive business within the strict guidelines they have set out for them. They would be cap business people if they didn't."Spoke to someone who knows a few people who live in Kirkby Mallory, and it seems that the main complaint is that the Circuit is taking it’s use right up to the limits of the planning permissions. (not quite taking the p**s)
Not just Motorsport I believe but other events there have not helped.
Seems in the past the previous owners/leaseholders were more than accommodating with the locals in terms of use, but the current people seem hell bent on screwing every last drop out of it’s use.
(Adding to the above, it seems the locals wanted to keep this below the radar in case it affected property prices and hoped to sort things out with the circuit management, but it now seems to be a bit more public, so expect some big guns to start taking an interest) "
NiMbys complaining at legitimate, legal stuff. Typical.
They'd be really crap business people if they took the issue so far that the previously tolerant locals felt no other option than to speak to the council, which resulted in punitive noise restrictions, making yet another circuit unviable.
Having been around Croft when the noise issues hit there, this sounds like it's a different situation. Croft's was a malicious action brought by an estranged wife and her family, Mallory seems like a village that's traditionally been tolerant (and you'd have to be tolerant of the circuit if you moved into Kirby Mallory, it's practically in the village) having their patience tested to breaking point.
I could be wrong, but having met several residents of Kirby Mallory on the many visits I've made to Mallory Park, I don't think this is a case of NIMBYism - it's not like you can miss the circuit at the end of your garden when you buy the place, is it?
With most things there are two sides to a story, but with this one there are more.
To start with the point of view of the villagers:-
1 / In certain respects, they have a fair point and they didn't all "move to nuisance" - some have lived here for many years.
2 / They do have a right to know that the circuit is being run within certain limits.
3 / Knowing the activities scheduled in advance is key to being able to manage their leisure time and that schedule should be fixed in reasonable time.
4 / The expectation of a number of "quiet" weekends during the summer months does not seem unreasonable to me.
None of the above should simply be cast aside as NIMBYism, as that is just tantamount to burying your head in the sand and ignoring the issue.
The circuit owner (Postcastle Properties) also has a point:-
1 / The rented the circuit to Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd with permitted usage of 365 days per annum.
2 / The rent was calculated in a fair manner based on that kind of usage.
3 / The term of the lease still has several years to run and he expects to collect the revenue due.
4 / The noise restriction was not placed on the venue, but on the operator - Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd.
The circuit lessee / operator (BARC) also has a point:-
1 / They took on the assets and leases of Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd on the basis of certain information disclosed.
2 / That paperwork was based on being able to operate the circuit on 5 days most weeks and 4 days on other weeks.
3 / The borough council, parish council and residents group at the time had a liberal and open interpretation of those agreements.
4 / If those terms are changed to restrict usage beyond a certain point, the business becomes unviable and they have to walk away.
Should # 4 happen, it is unlikely that anyone else will step in on those same terms as it is commercial suicide. The circuit would therefore either end up being run and managed by the owner (as happened at Donington Park after 18 months of being closed). OR, be leased to someone else on different terms - OR be sold for development.
REMEMBER - The 1985 restrictions as currently enforced and interpreted are ONLY binding on Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd, not the owner of the venue or any new tenant. (A new order would probably swiftly be imposed, but probably not before considerable unrestricted activity had further soured relations).
Things that all parties seem to agree on currently:-
1 / 40 days racing per year.
2 / 52 days (Wednesdays) for testing.
3 / Mondays (except Bank Holidays) must be respected as a no activity day.
4 / 9am - 4.30pm operation on Wednesdays.
5 / 9.30am - 6pm operation on race days.
(not a long list and completely unviable from many aspects)
Things that are not agreed currently:-
1 / How the race days are distributed (currently only 4 two day events are allowed)
2 / What is permitted on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
3 / Just about everything else involved in operating a sporting venue in close proximity to a centre of population.
The variations are widespread with a very small minority of villagers (just 6 in number) wanting absolutely no activity outside of those race / practice days and some of the circuit supporters wanted unrestrained usage on every day except Monday. Clearly, neither of those options will result in any long term harmony or resolution that anybody really wants - as the village does not want a predominantly social housing estate on its doorstep and that WILL be the inevitable outcome if the lower extreme is stuck to.
The "Crazy Dave" Solution would be (not that anyone is currently listening to me):-
1 / 40 Race Days distributed freely but published and fixed no later than 20th February each year. (Up to 20 two day meetings)
2 / No other weekend activity at all - effectively guaranteeing 32 silent weekends each year.
3 / On weeks where a race meeting occurs, any other two weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
4 / On weeks where the weekend is silent, any other three weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
6 / No restrictions on cycling days (even on no activity days) but with no car parking in the village.
7 / One monthly meeting of Borough Council, Parish Council, Village Representatives and Circuit Management to address any and all issues.
I don't see any of that happening, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.
It would need a 10 percent reduction in rent / rates to make it viable, but it would mean that everyone - landlord, tenant, council and village - got 90 percent of what they wanted and that's not a bad set of odds in life.
I obviously know a fair bit more about the situation than most people, but more than the above I can't say. Nobody has covered themselves in glory over this situation, but the time for retribution has passed and the time to move on is now or never.
To start with the point of view of the villagers:-
1 / In certain respects, they have a fair point and they didn't all "move to nuisance" - some have lived here for many years.
2 / They do have a right to know that the circuit is being run within certain limits.
3 / Knowing the activities scheduled in advance is key to being able to manage their leisure time and that schedule should be fixed in reasonable time.
4 / The expectation of a number of "quiet" weekends during the summer months does not seem unreasonable to me.
None of the above should simply be cast aside as NIMBYism, as that is just tantamount to burying your head in the sand and ignoring the issue.
The circuit owner (Postcastle Properties) also has a point:-
1 / The rented the circuit to Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd with permitted usage of 365 days per annum.
2 / The rent was calculated in a fair manner based on that kind of usage.
3 / The term of the lease still has several years to run and he expects to collect the revenue due.
4 / The noise restriction was not placed on the venue, but on the operator - Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd.
The circuit lessee / operator (BARC) also has a point:-
1 / They took on the assets and leases of Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd on the basis of certain information disclosed.
2 / That paperwork was based on being able to operate the circuit on 5 days most weeks and 4 days on other weeks.
3 / The borough council, parish council and residents group at the time had a liberal and open interpretation of those agreements.
4 / If those terms are changed to restrict usage beyond a certain point, the business becomes unviable and they have to walk away.
Should # 4 happen, it is unlikely that anyone else will step in on those same terms as it is commercial suicide. The circuit would therefore either end up being run and managed by the owner (as happened at Donington Park after 18 months of being closed). OR, be leased to someone else on different terms - OR be sold for development.
REMEMBER - The 1985 restrictions as currently enforced and interpreted are ONLY binding on Mallory Park (Motorsport) Ltd, not the owner of the venue or any new tenant. (A new order would probably swiftly be imposed, but probably not before considerable unrestricted activity had further soured relations).
Things that all parties seem to agree on currently:-
1 / 40 days racing per year.
2 / 52 days (Wednesdays) for testing.
3 / Mondays (except Bank Holidays) must be respected as a no activity day.
4 / 9am - 4.30pm operation on Wednesdays.
5 / 9.30am - 6pm operation on race days.
(not a long list and completely unviable from many aspects)
Things that are not agreed currently:-
1 / How the race days are distributed (currently only 4 two day events are allowed)
2 / What is permitted on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday.
3 / Just about everything else involved in operating a sporting venue in close proximity to a centre of population.
The variations are widespread with a very small minority of villagers (just 6 in number) wanting absolutely no activity outside of those race / practice days and some of the circuit supporters wanted unrestrained usage on every day except Monday. Clearly, neither of those options will result in any long term harmony or resolution that anybody really wants - as the village does not want a predominantly social housing estate on its doorstep and that WILL be the inevitable outcome if the lower extreme is stuck to.
The "Crazy Dave" Solution would be (not that anyone is currently listening to me):-
1 / 40 Race Days distributed freely but published and fixed no later than 20th February each year. (Up to 20 two day meetings)
2 / No other weekend activity at all - effectively guaranteeing 32 silent weekends each year.
3 / On weeks where a race meeting occurs, any other two weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
4 / On weeks where the weekend is silent, any other three weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
6 / No restrictions on cycling days (even on no activity days) but with no car parking in the village.
7 / One monthly meeting of Borough Council, Parish Council, Village Representatives and Circuit Management to address any and all issues.
I don't see any of that happening, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.
It would need a 10 percent reduction in rent / rates to make it viable, but it would mean that everyone - landlord, tenant, council and village - got 90 percent of what they wanted and that's not a bad set of odds in life.
I obviously know a fair bit more about the situation than most people, but more than the above I can't say. Nobody has covered themselves in glory over this situation, but the time for retribution has passed and the time to move on is now or never.
Dave Stewart said:
The "Crazy Dave" Solution would be (not that anyone is currently listening to me):-
1 / 40 Race Days distributed freely but published and fixed no later than 20th February each year. (Up to 20 two day meetings)
2 / No other weekend activity at all - effectively guaranteeing 32 silent weekends each year.
3 / On weeks where a race meeting occurs, any other two weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
4 / On weeks where the weekend is silent, any other three weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
6 / No restrictions on cycling days (even on no activity days) but with no car parking in the village.
7 / One monthly meeting of Borough Council, Parish Council, Village Representatives and Circuit Management to address any and all issues.
I don't see any of that happening, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.
It would need a 10 percent reduction in rent / rates to make it viable, but it would mean that everyone - landlord, tenant, council and village - got 90 percent of what they wanted and that's not a bad set of odds in life.
I obviously know a fair bit more about the situation than most people, but more than the above I can't say. Nobody has covered themselves in glory over this situation, but the time for retribution has passed and the time to move on is now or never.
Thanks for sharing what you know and I agree, your suggestions would seem to be the best compromise for all given the circumstances. Someone's going to dig their heels in and want all or nothing though, I'll bet.1 / 40 Race Days distributed freely but published and fixed no later than 20th February each year. (Up to 20 two day meetings)
2 / No other weekend activity at all - effectively guaranteeing 32 silent weekends each year.
3 / On weeks where a race meeting occurs, any other two weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
4 / On weeks where the weekend is silent, any other three weekdays may be used for motor vehicle practice or testing.
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
6 / No restrictions on cycling days (even on no activity days) but with no car parking in the village.
7 / One monthly meeting of Borough Council, Parish Council, Village Representatives and Circuit Management to address any and all issues.
I don't see any of that happening, but I think it would be a reasonable compromise.
It would need a 10 percent reduction in rent / rates to make it viable, but it would mean that everyone - landlord, tenant, council and village - got 90 percent of what they wanted and that's not a bad set of odds in life.
I obviously know a fair bit more about the situation than most people, but more than the above I can't say. Nobody has covered themselves in glory over this situation, but the time for retribution has passed and the time to move on is now or never.
Losing the circuit would be a real shame, Mallory's always been one of my favourite circuits to visit and I always seem to get good results there.
egor110 said:
Is mallory able to make profit as a racing circuit?
I'd lump it in with castle coombe where the restrictions are such that they no longer are able to attract big race organisations such as btcc/bsb or gt's because of noise,traffic restrictions or the pit areas are just too small.
Probably not much profit in actual race meetings - More money to be made in midweek stuff - Track Days and Corporate events.I'd lump it in with castle coombe where the restrictions are such that they no longer are able to attract big race organisations such as btcc/bsb or gt's because of noise,traffic restrictions or the pit areas are just too small.
GT's at Mallory
Who rememberas F5000 and Aurora F1 ?
Dave Stewart said:
To start with the point of view of the villagers:-
1 / In certain respects, they have a fair point and they didn't all "move to nuisance" - some have lived here for many years.
The "Crazy Dave" Solution would be (not that anyone is currently listening to me):-
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
On point 1, have that many people really lived in the area since before the circuit opening (late 50's/early 60's)?!1 / In certain respects, they have a fair point and they didn't all "move to nuisance" - some have lived here for many years.
The "Crazy Dave" Solution would be (not that anyone is currently listening to me):-
5 / Blanket 108 DBa noise limit on all motor racing activity (except the Festival of 1000 Bikes as a historic fixture exeception).
On your point 5, surely at least negotiate some noisy days, or wave goodbye to an F1 or F5000 ever circulating again. I think its madness that a race circuit has zero days where it can run as loud as it likes.
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