New Mazda RX8 Cup to launch in 750MC Roadsports Series
Discussion
stacy said:
Hi,
"Experienced"? Always dreaded Autosport calling you a "veteran" or "stalwart". You knew it was over then. "Racer" was OK, but you always quietly hoped for "Ace"..
I'm not familiar with Track Car Magazine, but if it's something akin to TrackDriver magazine I'd say that was a good idea.
Oops, sorry, slip of the finger!!!"Experienced"? Always dreaded Autosport calling you a "veteran" or "stalwart". You knew it was over then. "Racer" was OK, but you always quietly hoped for "Ace"..
I'm not familiar with Track Car Magazine, but if it's something akin to TrackDriver magazine I'd say that was a good idea.
"Experienced" was meant as a compliment. Lol!
stacy said:
If you can make a rotary go bang without forced induction assistance you are doing very well. They tend more to lose power rather than fail.
I say again - I ran for years with practically zero issues with good engines from WGT in Cheshire. And I mean racing, testing, and winning in multiple series over a year without missing a beat. At the end of the year it's an afternoon to tear down and re-seal.
So.. ahem.. Evidence please..?
S.
Here is the nub of the problem, I was very nervous about this proposed series when Rotechniks approached me for assistance building a series because I had read more horror stories than you could shake a stick at about rotary engines.I say again - I ran for years with practically zero issues with good engines from WGT in Cheshire. And I mean racing, testing, and winning in multiple series over a year without missing a beat. At the end of the year it's an afternoon to tear down and re-seal.
So.. ahem.. Evidence please..?
S.
Easy answer was to go and see Dave and Colin from the technical side of the Rotechniks and ask a few pointed questions about longevity and so on, These guys do know their way round a rotary engine (as do quite a lot of other guys BTW) and it became obvious that somewhere along the way things were getting distorted when you see cars with popped engines in the yard with 50k or under on the clock and cars looked after by the likes of Dave and Colin with 130k on the clock and still running well.
So far the changes made from the Formula Women back in 2005 are low cell cats as run in Australia,Evans waterless coolant and Royal Purple fully synthetic oil. We do envisage running 98 fuel and leaning off the fueling a tad during the season but we are not going power mad at this stage.
We are having quite a few friends and potential builders at the launch on 22nd March at Donnington and all the technical guys will be on hand to answer any questions if you would like to drop in and we will have both cars out with the Road sports series on Sat 23/3/13
Regards
Derek Gardiner
Rotary Racing
Edited by Ab Shocks on Monday 18th March 13:44
Phil Dicky said:
I'm interested in running an RX8 next year, and will certainly keep an eye on the series this year and might try and take a round or two in.
The interesting point being the cars with knackered engines are 500 quid or less...so off setting selling interior etc with fitting a cage,electric etc could have a car minus engine for 2k....what's the typical engine re build cost?
Must say they are a lovely predictable car to drive, granted without the speed of other stuff I've raced but Im guessing far cheaper which certainly appeals
Very good Phil, you are not far off on the pricing but we are going for factory engines to ensure a reasonably level playing field and that does put the price up. However we have done drivers deals for wheels, Federal tyres and Gaz suspension that somewhat redresses things.The interesting point being the cars with knackered engines are 500 quid or less...so off setting selling interior etc with fitting a cage,electric etc could have a car minus engine for 2k....what's the typical engine re build cost?
Must say they are a lovely predictable car to drive, granted without the speed of other stuff I've raced but Im guessing far cheaper which certainly appeals
If you can pop into Donny Friday or Saturday 22nd 23rd March you can see for yourself what's going on.
Regards
Derek
Ab Shocks said:
Very good Phil, you are not far off on the pricing but we are going for factory engines to ensure a reasonably level playing field and that does put the price up. However we have done drivers deals for wheels, Federal tyres and Gaz suspension that somewhat redresses things.
If you can pop into Donny Friday or Saturday 22nd 23rd March you can see for yourself what's going on.
Regards
Derek
Hi Derek,If you can pop into Donny Friday or Saturday 22nd 23rd March you can see for yourself what's going on.
Regards
Derek
I'm even more interetsed now....am I right in thinking the engines have to be stock and if so who supplies them and how much. Feel free to e-mail me off line if you perfere.
splitpin said:
WGFTGIGFTG .........
If only just for the hell of it, I just couldn't resist alluding to rewarding such a very rare appearance from Giles with a forum ban! Because >
a) Well we know why and
b) The BS Boys don't seem to have one at all on 750MC's much better looking newly launched website.
Well, we don't talk about that in public but - as you mention it - I like to think that Competition Secretaries have the intelligence and integrity to have nothing to do with such outrages while Directors and their semi-literate henchmen do not.
Still, we don't talk about such things in public. There is, in case you're interested, a BikeSports Drivers' forum.
Hi all. I am the owner of RoTechniks and the new RX8 race series. I'm not going to respond to all posts on here but hopefully will see and meet interested racers at race and test days.
The whole ethos of this series is to have a level playing field, at a reasonable budget hence the decision to have as near stock cars and new factory engines. Is it the cheapest out there no. I don't know why we keep getting compared to compact cup or some other series and marques of car. If you were to go buy one of these other cars and then put a new engine in I believe you would struggle to get near our budget. We are asked often about budgets to build and this is complicated and varied. If you were to base everything on buying new, then I'd expect a self build cost of £7-8000 (are you basing your figures using Sparco or Reviere seats) but as many racers are experienced and often sell there cars minus seats etc or if used good used parts I'd guess at a much lower cost maybe as low as £6-7000. Not far off other cars and series that only offer old cars and engines. Find something that will handle and perform as well as an RX8 for less? Not sure you will.
Reliability is always on most people's minds and the reason behind new factory engines, installed by us. We can then ensure all engines are equal and installed correctly.
Mazda were only involved in Formula woman for 2 years and Mazda claims that not 1 engine failure in those years.
We built a n- ring RX8 car for a company that hires it out, to date no complaints in 18 months of race hire.
We see a never ending stream of problem cars and its always a failure undetected that causes problems, often undetected by garages as well as owners.
Rob. Boston has my girlfriends old car, he drove it away with over 130k miles on clock. It always started and ran, although was just showing signs of age, so it's is now stripped and prepped by him and I delivered it back last week with new engine, sports cat, carbon clutch, coils, leads and plugs. The next race car prepped has 130k on clock and was our customer loan car.
The problem with racers running with engines bought with car or rebuilds is there is no quality control having seen many home builds, and no record of tuning mods to internals.
We do not want wallet racing, I'm sure those complaining of price would cry even louder if anyone could build own or pay specialist for trickery, especially those that can't drive ;-)
There are other plans on where we want to take the racing but for earlier years, this spec will be a proving and growing stage.
The whole ethos of this series is to have a level playing field, at a reasonable budget hence the decision to have as near stock cars and new factory engines. Is it the cheapest out there no. I don't know why we keep getting compared to compact cup or some other series and marques of car. If you were to go buy one of these other cars and then put a new engine in I believe you would struggle to get near our budget. We are asked often about budgets to build and this is complicated and varied. If you were to base everything on buying new, then I'd expect a self build cost of £7-8000 (are you basing your figures using Sparco or Reviere seats) but as many racers are experienced and often sell there cars minus seats etc or if used good used parts I'd guess at a much lower cost maybe as low as £6-7000. Not far off other cars and series that only offer old cars and engines. Find something that will handle and perform as well as an RX8 for less? Not sure you will.
Reliability is always on most people's minds and the reason behind new factory engines, installed by us. We can then ensure all engines are equal and installed correctly.
Mazda were only involved in Formula woman for 2 years and Mazda claims that not 1 engine failure in those years.
We built a n- ring RX8 car for a company that hires it out, to date no complaints in 18 months of race hire.
We see a never ending stream of problem cars and its always a failure undetected that causes problems, often undetected by garages as well as owners.
Rob. Boston has my girlfriends old car, he drove it away with over 130k miles on clock. It always started and ran, although was just showing signs of age, so it's is now stripped and prepped by him and I delivered it back last week with new engine, sports cat, carbon clutch, coils, leads and plugs. The next race car prepped has 130k on clock and was our customer loan car.
The problem with racers running with engines bought with car or rebuilds is there is no quality control having seen many home builds, and no record of tuning mods to internals.
We do not want wallet racing, I'm sure those complaining of price would cry even louder if anyone could build own or pay specialist for trickery, especially those that can't drive ;-)
There are other plans on where we want to take the racing but for earlier years, this spec will be a proving and growing stage.
.What happened to the series ? and the cars ?
I am now in 4th year of competing the RX8 in Sprints and Hills and again won class championship. Last year finished second overall road going against Caterhams , EVOs etc.
This year an engine with rotor #1 low and needing a rebuild for last 6 events is my "drivers excuse" !!
The handling of the PZ version - easily copied on a standard 8 - is one of the best out there. Would be good to see more 8s used competitively
Rebuilds are the problem and Mazda new are one of the worst imho. Too variable. I've gone through two of theirs
Am intrigued on the n-ring comment as the only 8 I knew of out there didn't actually last long before engine expired Who else has one ? Like to make contact next time I'm out. CHeers
I am now in 4th year of competing the RX8 in Sprints and Hills and again won class championship. Last year finished second overall road going against Caterhams , EVOs etc.
This year an engine with rotor #1 low and needing a rebuild for last 6 events is my "drivers excuse" !!
The handling of the PZ version - easily copied on a standard 8 - is one of the best out there. Would be good to see more 8s used competitively
Rebuilds are the problem and Mazda new are one of the worst imho. Too variable. I've gone through two of theirs
Am intrigued on the n-ring comment as the only 8 I knew of out there didn't actually last long before engine expired
Who else has one ? Like to make contact next time I'm out. CHeersNot sure what ever happened to this series but CSCC have taken up the mantle. The CSCC announcement on it's FB site by Club Director, David Smitheram, said:
"We teased you last week by announcing that the CSCC is launching an exciting new racing formula for the 2019 season.
We can now reveal the ‘RX8 Trophy’. A class for Mazda’s 231bhp rotary engined sports car, racing as part of the RSV Graphics New Millennium grid, at the best circuits in the UK and at Spa Francorchamps.
Two years in the making, this class has been designed as probably the cheapest way of going racing, in a car that delivers performance and handling. Cars must have a valid MOT and retain creature comforts such as air con, heater and stereo, therefore can be used as a daily driver, as well as to and from the race track.
Races are 40 minutes, for 1 or 2 drivers (potentially halving the costs between friends). With road cars available for less than £1000 and no modifications allowed except for safety Advantage Motorsport Caged Laser, reliability, tyres Nankang Motorsport Europe Adams And Page Ltd and brake pads Mintex Brakes UK & Ireland, a ready to race car will cost between £4000 and £5000 and take just 30 hours to build!
The cars may be cheap but the driving standards expected from the drivers is high, as is the degree of honesty when building and running the cars.
Full details will be available at the MotorsportDays.com show, where we will have cars available for passenger laps, for those who are interested in building and racing a car in 2019.
Those who are keen to get started now need to look for a completely standard 231bhp model, from 2002 to 2008. No special editions, no fancy wheels or noisy exhausts, as you will only have to change them back to standard. Buy your car, get to know it, service it and in 5 weeks time we will reveal the full regulations and a build guide, taking you through the step by step process and where to buy the few required parts.
Why an RX8 I hear you ask? Surely they are thirsty and unreliable?
These cars is probably the most misunderstood vehicle sold in recent memory. Marketed as a useable 2+2 sports coupe they sold in large numbers, over 20,000 cars in the UK. Reviews praised the smooth engine, handling, brakes and innovative packaging (little rear doors, ideal for pit stop changes), but owners criticised the thirst for fuel, oil and that once started must be allowed to warm up for a few minutes or risk flooding. Rotaries work their ignition systems hard, so need plugs, leads and coil packs every 25k miles ideally. Oil starvation and hard to detect misfires due to old ignition parts led to bore wash and blocked cats, followed by a detonating engine! Fortunately, in the hands of an owner that understands a few rules they are actually very strong:
1. They like to be revved through to the 9000+ redline once warm, it helps keep carbon deposits down (not a problem for a racer).
2. Actually checking and topping the oil up (!), or the use of a separate tank for oil (SOHN) takes care of the lubrication.
3. Change the ignition components for quality parts, not ebay specials.
4. These engines run hotter than a conventional piston engine, so a coolant change is recommended with Mazda FL22.
If the worst happens a full engine rebuild is usually between £1200 and £1500, with warranty from a rotary specialist.
The car you see here in the photos is my own, I have been driving it to and from work for the last 6 months, it’s transported Hugo and I to a committee meeting in Oxford and on Monday was thrashed around Castle Combe by members of the CSCC committee without fault, then driven home again.
Matty Ev of sponsor RSV Graphics has also covered thousands of miles in his, including a trackday at Rockingham recently and his is in standard road trim at this time.
We hope to see this new class encourage drivers on a tight budget or with a lack of space to come out and race these unique cars."
And no, I am not on the CSCC Committee any more, but I thought RX8 enthusiasts and club racers might like to know about it. And yes, the car could also be used in 750mc Roadsports or Club Enduro, and in MSVR Track Day Trophy, too!
"We teased you last week by announcing that the CSCC is launching an exciting new racing formula for the 2019 season.
We can now reveal the ‘RX8 Trophy’. A class for Mazda’s 231bhp rotary engined sports car, racing as part of the RSV Graphics New Millennium grid, at the best circuits in the UK and at Spa Francorchamps.
Two years in the making, this class has been designed as probably the cheapest way of going racing, in a car that delivers performance and handling. Cars must have a valid MOT and retain creature comforts such as air con, heater and stereo, therefore can be used as a daily driver, as well as to and from the race track.
Races are 40 minutes, for 1 or 2 drivers (potentially halving the costs between friends). With road cars available for less than £1000 and no modifications allowed except for safety Advantage Motorsport Caged Laser, reliability, tyres Nankang Motorsport Europe Adams And Page Ltd and brake pads Mintex Brakes UK & Ireland, a ready to race car will cost between £4000 and £5000 and take just 30 hours to build!
The cars may be cheap but the driving standards expected from the drivers is high, as is the degree of honesty when building and running the cars.
Full details will be available at the MotorsportDays.com show, where we will have cars available for passenger laps, for those who are interested in building and racing a car in 2019.
Those who are keen to get started now need to look for a completely standard 231bhp model, from 2002 to 2008. No special editions, no fancy wheels or noisy exhausts, as you will only have to change them back to standard. Buy your car, get to know it, service it and in 5 weeks time we will reveal the full regulations and a build guide, taking you through the step by step process and where to buy the few required parts.
Why an RX8 I hear you ask? Surely they are thirsty and unreliable?
These cars is probably the most misunderstood vehicle sold in recent memory. Marketed as a useable 2+2 sports coupe they sold in large numbers, over 20,000 cars in the UK. Reviews praised the smooth engine, handling, brakes and innovative packaging (little rear doors, ideal for pit stop changes), but owners criticised the thirst for fuel, oil and that once started must be allowed to warm up for a few minutes or risk flooding. Rotaries work their ignition systems hard, so need plugs, leads and coil packs every 25k miles ideally. Oil starvation and hard to detect misfires due to old ignition parts led to bore wash and blocked cats, followed by a detonating engine! Fortunately, in the hands of an owner that understands a few rules they are actually very strong:
1. They like to be revved through to the 9000+ redline once warm, it helps keep carbon deposits down (not a problem for a racer).
2. Actually checking and topping the oil up (!), or the use of a separate tank for oil (SOHN) takes care of the lubrication.
3. Change the ignition components for quality parts, not ebay specials.
4. These engines run hotter than a conventional piston engine, so a coolant change is recommended with Mazda FL22.
If the worst happens a full engine rebuild is usually between £1200 and £1500, with warranty from a rotary specialist.
The car you see here in the photos is my own, I have been driving it to and from work for the last 6 months, it’s transported Hugo and I to a committee meeting in Oxford and on Monday was thrashed around Castle Combe by members of the CSCC committee without fault, then driven home again.
Matty Ev of sponsor RSV Graphics has also covered thousands of miles in his, including a trackday at Rockingham recently and his is in standard road trim at this time.
We hope to see this new class encourage drivers on a tight budget or with a lack of space to come out and race these unique cars."
And no, I am not on the CSCC Committee any more, but I thought RX8 enthusiasts and club racers might like to know about it. And yes, the car could also be used in 750mc Roadsports or Club Enduro, and in MSVR Track Day Trophy, too!
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 26th September 19:59
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 26th September 22:34
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