MX5 MK3 SuperCup - a fresh start

MX5 MK3 SuperCup - a fresh start

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Discussion

firenza43

21 posts

132 months

Wednesday 1st May 2013
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Stuart,

I think this picture illustrates perfectly why the Mk3 drivers felt the need to move on to pastures new.

The 150r has had 2 years of solid promotion from Ma5da and the Mk3 none, where is the promotional group shot of the 2 remaining Mk3s that attended the Silverstone meeting. Its taken 2 years of priority promotion to get 8 150rs at a circuit and 6 on track. On the flip side the Ma5da Cup has been run into the ground for 2 years with entries falling from a healthy 26 in 2011 to 2 in 2013.

The SuperCup is attempting to repair 2 years of neglect and trying to rebuild through 2013. Although the grids have so far been small, the racing has been superb, very close wheel to wheel action as we Mx5 drivers have come to expect.

I wish the 150rs every success for 2013, but as they share no common parts with a Mk3 maybe you should start your own thread, they dont really belong on here.

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Wednesday 1st May 2013
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Stuart Mills said:
Fantastic to see all these Mazda variants now really getting the grid numbers up. MK1's and MK'3 seem to be doing well and on the up and the MX150r@s are growing slowly, we would like to see them grow quicker of course but at least it is heading in the right direction. Despite these poor economic times which have hit the racing scene there is still positive news, new grids and new drivers coming along. Congratulations to everyone for working so hard at this.

You are correct the MX150R's are not MK3 based at all. I felt those interested in MK3 could also be interested in these as a cheaper option, lighter and stiffer but as you say should be on a different thread. Sorry for appearing to hijack.

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Thursday 2nd May 2013
quotequote all
sorry, I'm wandering a bit further off topic here...

Stuart Mills said:
You are correct the MX150R's are not MK3 based at all. I felt those interested in MK3 could also be interested in these as a cheaper option, lighter and stiffer but as you say should be on a different thread. Sorry for appearing to hijack.
I'd be interested to see any computer FE Analysis you've done on this, particularly for the MK3s, I do quite a lot of structural type analysis with work (sadly, not automotive). I'd say both the MX150R and MK3 are far to complex shapes to get any sort of meaningful figures using hand calcs.

I know the mk3 is supposed to be considerably stiffer as a road car than the mk1 was (22% bending, 47% torsional Wikipedia informs me!), but it would be good to see what difference adding the 6 point rollcage makes. I can't say I've noticed any flexing while racing (I didn't in the mk1 either tbh) so I'd image it's quite a big difference over the road car, but having never driven either on the road I can't compare.

I also remember at Uni seeing some interesting ideas for incorporating crumple zones into tubular chassis' without increasing weight, I believe Caterham were doing research into it. How does the MX150 dissipate energy in an impact?

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Thursday 2nd May 2013
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Mounting of cages to increase torsional rigidity would rely on cage stiffness and also the points at which it is mounted. That is why the MX150 cage back stays reach to the top of the rear shocks. Our cars are stiffer than Atom's. "real" (not FEA garbage in, garbage out) testing has proven this as the Atom was not allowed on the roads in Aus, the MEV is.
What is the MK3 torsional rigidity is claimed to be, anyone know with/without cage?
What is the weight of a race MK3 with cage?
Track width on MX150R is 1460mm, this is to increase the scrub radius and give more steering feel.
What is the track width of a MK3?
What is the average cost of a MK3 race car?
Not interested in a peeing contest BTW, just replying.
Adjustments need to be made for vehicle weight though if anyone has "proper" data to compare. I can only find a claim that an NC is 47% stiffer than an NA/NB. I am guessing an NC will hold at least 4000 ft lbs per degree of deflection which is the minimum for Aus regs and they are on the roads in Australia. Not that easy to achieve with a thin tin monocoque and no roof, but the new Aston's with alloy frames are claimed to be 3 x stiffer.
I guess the ND or NE will have an alloy frame.
The NC is heavier than an NA but has an alloy block so it is probable that weight has been spent on producing a stiffer structure or is it a safety cell improvement only?

Edited by Stuart Mills on Thursday 2nd May 16:44

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Thursday 2nd May 2013
quotequote all
A quick Google gave me some figures for the MK3 torsional stiffness – no source was given but it seems in line (lower) than most similar cars whose sources were referenced…

Mazda MX5 NC (road car, no roll cage) = 8800Nm/deg.
MX150R caged(?) = 4000lbft/deg = 5423Nm/deg (I like to use SI units)

Does weight need to be taken into account too?

Minimum championship weights with driver.
Mk3 = 1110Kg
MX150R = 815Kg *has this been reduced? I couldn’t find the regs to check*.

So the MK3 stiffness is 8800/1110 = 7.9Nm/deg/Kg
The MX150R stiffness is 5423/815 = 6.6Nm/deg/Kg

So not including effects of adding a roll cage the MK3 would appear to be stiffer anyway?

Now I am by no means claiming these figures to be anything more than back of fag packet stuff here. Please correct tme if I’ve done something daft.

In fact, it doesn't really matter which is stiffer as the mk3 is great fun to drive and I'm sure you will say the MX150R is a well.

Track width for the MK3 is 1490mm apparently.

Between £8-10k seems to be the going rate for a race ready MK3 at the moment, but you could build one yourself for less I would think. Yes, more expensive than the MX150, but you do get 10 year younger mechanicals, more power and a good looking body shell for that.

Stuart Mills

1,208 posts

205 months

Thursday 2nd May 2013
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sorry our posts over lapped, I realised I said inc cage but actually the one we tested had no cage so I just edited.
Seems they did make some pretty impressive improvements to the NC cars.
It is true that the extra cost of a MK3 is due to the more modern component cost, although how many times you buy a £35 MX150R wing compared to a comparitivly expensive NC bumper depends on luck an skill, and grid numbers, but lets no go there. Have fun, I will stay clear of your thread. Good talking though. Regards Stuart

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Thursday 2nd May 2013
quotequote all
Like you say though even the mk3 MX5 pales in comparison to some of these new Astons, I saw some stiffness figures up in the 20-30,000Nm/deg range for those, I suppose you get what you pay for.

I always keep an eye out for bumpers on eBay and they're not as expensive as people may think...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MAZDA-MX5-MK3-MK3-5-FACE...

ETA: found a rear bumper too..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2008-MAZDA-MX-5-GENUINE-...

Edited by mattmk391 on Thursday 2nd May 22:24

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Friday 10th May 2013
quotequote all
The SuperCup is at Anglesey this weekend, triple header for anybody interested in spectating (and braving the weather by the looks of it!)

Steady grids with a couple of new drivers entering. As it's one of the biggest distances to travel some regular drivers have chosen to miss this one.

Again sharing the meeting with Caterhams so plenty of racing both days.

Info on the website:

http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/

and on twitter:

@MX5SuperCup

firenza43

21 posts

132 months

Thursday 16th May 2013
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Anyone wishing to try a Mazda Mx5 Supercup car in a slightly less competative environment than the SuperCup championship itself may be interested in the Mazda Mx5 Trophy.

This will be held on the Silverstone GP circuit and will consist of 1x20min qualy and 3x20min races. I believe BRSCC temporary membership can be arranged to allow non members to enter. Cost £300.00, bargain!


mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Tuesday 27th August 2013
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Apologies for the thread resurrection...

The Supercup is entering it's final round at Oulton on the 14th of September. Back in July the BRSCC announced they would be running the championship again in 2014 which gave all us drivers a big boost.

As everyone hoped the grids have grown back into the mid teens over the season and with Ma5da increasingly quiet this is the only single make, current model and reasonable budget champiosnhip out there.

The cars remain great fun and evenly matched and have taken drivers such as Luke Herbert (Michelin Clios Series), Rob Boston (Ginetta Supercup) and Adam Gore (Production Lotus) onto further success'.

There are now three teams offering drives in the championship and several other drivers builing cars for 2014:

http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/18.html


The racing has been great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDDWi7O7ES0&fea...

It's been one of my most enjoyable seasons racing, so looking foward to next year.

Website: http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/index.html
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MX5SuperCup

Come and check it out and speak to the drivers at Oulton Park on September the 14th should anyone want to know more.

Shameless plug of the champioship I know, but there are times when we can all take a leaf out of Andy97's book wink

Dave Brand

928 posts

267 months

Wednesday 28th August 2013
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mattmk391 said:
Shameless plug of the champioship I know, but there are times when we can all take a leaf out of Andy97's book wink
More championships should be doing that!

firenza43

21 posts

132 months

Friday 6th September 2013
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Heres a couple of links worth a read regarding the final BRSCC Mx5 SuperCup rounds at Oulton Park and also a very bright outlook for 2014.

Its a shame the season is coming to a close because there is now alot of momentum behind the SuperCup.

Bertrum can you get your Mk3 out for Oulton?

Links
http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/23.html
http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/16.html

Srl

88 posts

188 months

Friday 6th September 2013
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Howdy all,

If anyone is looking for some help with vehicle setup whether that being corner weights,camber/tracking or general vehicle maintenance either mechanical or electrical before a race weekend/test or at the circuit drop me an email, to be honest I am working full time but looking to just help out people that need some assistance. I am based in the Midlands so ideal location for most circuits.

Cheers

Bertrum

466 posts

222 months

Sunday 8th September 2013
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firenza43 said:
Bertrum can you get your Mk3 out for Oulton?

l
I would have loved to but sadly it's not going to happen. I'm fully committed to doing a full season in 2014 though.

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Sunday 15th September 2013
quotequote all
Well, season over now for the SuperCup.

18 cars on the grid for the final round at Oulton, which is more than we hoped for at the start of this thread.

Really close racing with the top 6 cars covered by 1.1 seconds over the line in race 1, I kid you not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4-zmjbzchI

http://www.tsl-timing.com/brscc/2013/133732xsc.pdf

Looking even better now for 2014!

lord summerisle

8,138 posts

224 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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With Sheard and car 67 (or was it 69?) going off at Lodge on the last last lap - what did that do for the championship?

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Monday 16th September 2013
quotequote all
The two were level on points going into that last race, #67 Andrew Clarkson got back on track first to take the Championship.

Final points table here: http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/8.html

Looked like Paul had it sewn up before the red flag for the air ambulance, a very dramatic end to the season.



Edited by mattmk391 on Monday 16th September 15:06

lord summerisle

8,138 posts

224 months

Monday 16th September 2013
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aye it was - was flagging at Kickerbrook In - could hear the commentary, just, in the box... then my radio cut over to say Chequered flag to car such and such.... along with my Observer radio saying he had paul and andy in the gravel

mattmk391

Original Poster:

224 posts

207 months

Thursday 6th March 2014
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An update for 2014 to carry on the story (if anyone reads back through the thread or remembers it)...

27 Drivers are registered for the 2014 championship already with 4 weeks to go until the first race at Silverstone, with a couple more expected.

Control parts added to all cars for this year include:

Racing Beat stainless 4-1 Exhaust Manifold
Pipercross Intake system
Eibach adjustable anti-roll bars (front and rear)
(standard Mazda parts of the above can also be retained)

Power is now up to around 180BHP.


A new MX5 SuperCup website is now up and running (it went 'live' today):

http://www.mx5supercup.co.uk/

Twitter account remains the same:

https://twitter.com/MX5SuperCup

So the championship is looking really good for 2014 and all the hard work from the drivers (and BRSCC) who stuck with it after the wheels fell of Ma5da is paying off biggrin



andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Friday 7th March 2014
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How much does the new exhaust manifold and the Pipercross filter cost and why bother? If its a one make series and everyone had to use the oem stuff then the quality of the racing would be the same.

Yes, I know that you say that people can stick with what they have but who wants to be 10Bhp down in a one make series? It may only be a relatively small cost increase but I just don't see the need for it unless I'm missing something.