No wheels off...
Discussion
I'm probably wrong in this, but the way the penalties work in quali has changed. You basically lose the lap if it was your fastest and you transgressed (according to the explanation in the link).
I thought that last year, the two were not connected. If you went off enough to get a penalty, you got the fastest lap removed. Ie the penalty lap and the fastest qualifying lap did not have to be one and the same IYSWIM!
Bert
I thought that last year, the two were not connected. If you went off enough to get a penalty, you got the fastest lap removed. Ie the penalty lap and the fastest qualifying lap did not have to be one and the same IYSWIM!
Bert
mad4amanda said:
surely the challenge will just be to race within the designated area without making errors that cause you to run wide thus avoiding penalty.
Isn't that what we had before? A perfectly good rule on the matter that was reasonably easy to follow and enforce. Now we have a new rule that is harder to follow and enforce. What is the point of that? Really clever people doing a stupid thing or just stupid people?
Bert
Of the last three pics posted are they not the same under the old and new rules? First two legal and the last one illegal?
I'm not sure it'll make quite the difference we think. Yes some corners will change but it's not that many.
It's just s pointless change as the new rule is harder to judge and harder to obey for no benefit whatsoever.
Bert
I'm not sure it'll make quite the difference we think. Yes some corners will change but it's not that many.
It's just s pointless change as the new rule is harder to judge and harder to obey for no benefit whatsoever.
Bert
woof said:
Brands will be a massive change.
A fast legal time around there would be using all the exit at Paddock, exit on Druids as needed and 4 wheels off at the exit on Graham Hill. You could get away with that on a single lap and then revert to 2 wheels off thereafter.
Im not sure I agree with your analysis. A fast legal time around there would be using all the exit at Paddock, exit on Druids as needed and 4 wheels off at the exit on Graham Hill. You could get away with that on a single lap and then revert to 2 wheels off thereafter.
What you describe is not a legal time at all. It's breaking the rules and hoping to get away with it. If you have exceeded the track limits 3 times then you are likely to be penalised. If you got away with it under the old rules, then there is no reason to think you won't get away with it under the new rules surely?
Bert
woof said:
I think we'll get away with what we can get away with - ie in a race and your a couple of seconds down on the car in front then you can take more speed through whatever corner, use the exit grasscrete and regain that advantage. But do it more than once and you'll get a penalty for sure. I know none of the clubs are in favour of this. I've bent their ears about it. So it is their officials that are charged with enforcing these rules - lets see what happens at the first MSA circuit race
I hope you don't mind me saying, but I think you need a better argument. Saying I cheated before and now you've ruined it isn't gong to win many hearts and minds 
mad4amanda said:
Removing the grasscrete would make it worse as what would result would be the ruts and potholes that were there before the grasscrete ,and the plastic stiff is no good as it becomes sharp where it breaks off causing more injuries .
No Im not going to list injured riders names, but know from being there at the time it was an issue.
Is any of this related to the change in MSA rules at all?No Im not going to list injured riders names, but know from being there at the time it was an issue.
Bert
mad4amanda said:
Did you read and understand my earlier posts?
As I said before, by the lush layer of relatively soft grass that will cover the grasscrete, that will not be stripped off by pretty continual running wide under the old rule, which effectively meant it was legal for every competitor to have two wheels of the car beyond the kerb and off the circuit.
If you look at the aerial photo posted above you can see the effect clearly.
Ok, so you are saying that the grass on the grasscrete can protect bikers when they fall on it. And car drivers are taking away that protection. I find that rather hard to believe for quite a few reasons. Firstly, grass is not very strong as a protective coating over concrete ridges. Secondly grass is quite seasonal. What about when racing takes place in the summer when the grass has gone all brown? And thirdly, if this were the case would not the MSA have made that point to explain the new rule. Forgive me if I have mis-understood your argument, but really it holds no water.As I said before, by the lush layer of relatively soft grass that will cover the grasscrete, that will not be stripped off by pretty continual running wide under the old rule, which effectively meant it was legal for every competitor to have two wheels of the car beyond the kerb and off the circuit.
If you look at the aerial photo posted above you can see the effect clearly.
Bert
The debate on protesting another driver is not really to do with judges of fact or not. The blue book allows a protest, doesn't really limit what the protest must be about, you pay the fee, make the protest within the time limit and off you go.
Protesting what a judge of fact has said is a different matter and is much more likely that it is you as a driver who wants to dispute being judged as a wheel off.
Bert
Protesting what a judge of fact has said is a different matter and is much more likely that it is you as a driver who wants to dispute being judged as a wheel off.
Bert
pistolp said:
Shame but there you go, I was never one for pushing boundaries here but now we live in fear of making mistakes and small ones at that. But that is the way it is.
So there we come full circle - well said. A rule change that has no benefit to competitor or spectator. Why oh why?Bert
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