No wheels off...

[BertBert]

I'm probably a bit behind on this, but just read the "no wheels off" rule that comes in in 2014. How do we feel about it? I guess we need to get our lap records all done this year
Brrt

[Scuffers]

BertBert said:

I'm probably a bit behind on this, but just read the "no wheels off" rule that comes in in 2014. How do we feel about it? I guess we need to get our lap records all done this year
Brrt

at face value, that's no crossing the white line at any point with any part of the car?

I can only imagine this is brought about by pressure from the cct owners?

this is a fair departure from FAI regs?

[ShakeyJake89]

At first when I was told about it I thought it was the end of the world but then I read the regs and we can still use the Kurbs (for now) so its not as bad as first thought.

And it's a wheel over the white line before penalty.

Edited by ShakeyJake89 on Sunday 25th August 19:20

[roddo]

I still put a wheel over the curbs at Donington yesterday without any issues although in a briefing it was said its a no go.....

I think it's a mater of not taking the piss.......

[jagracer]

roddo said:

I still put a wheel over the curbs at Donington yesterday without any issues although in a briefing it was said its a no go.....

It doesn't come in until January and yesterday the CoC at Donington seemed pretty laid back about everything, I used the kerbs every time at the chicane and a bit of grass elsewhere at one point.

[ShakeyJake89]

For reference here's the wording of the reg changes, hopefully it's readable.



P.S I can't find a link as it hasn't been published on the MSA site yet, the pic should do the trick.

[Graham]

there was a consutation about this a while ago. lots of negative feedback i certainly sent mine in, never had a reply ! and as usual msa did what they want. i dont know why they bother to consult.

its almost as daft as twice off the circuit or spin and black and white flag, 3 times and as visit to coc..

[Scuffers]

Graham said:

there was a consutation about this a while ago. lots of negative feedback i certainly sent mine in, never had a reply ! and as usual msa did what they want. i dont know why they bother to consult..

ditto.

[jagracer]

Scuffers said:

Graham said:

i dont know why they bother to consult..

ditto.

Because they have to, don't forget it'a a consultation not a democratic vote.

[roddo]

They will be charging us next.........

[Graham]

The thing that makes me laugh, and i pointed it out to the msa, is that they dont inforcevthe current rule with any sort of consistency so why have a more draconian one ?

[houlbt]

Mr Palmer has been pushing very hard for this to stop everyone messing up his nice grass verges.... his vote is all that matter on this I suspect

[bmwguy]

Ha ha.....can't stop laughing! Did you watch the touring cars at Knockhill today? !!!

Actually....this is a really poorly thought out piece of drafting. There are many corners where it will allow drivers to stray further off track than they do already. eg Jim Clark Esses at Croft. Currently you have to keep the inside wheels on the track side of the white line or get into trouble...but the curb is at least two car widths there, so under the new rule you will be able to run much wider.

Quoting the new rule...."A driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel either goes beyond the outer edge of any curb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb" (14.4.2b). In other words, where ever there is a kerb the white line is now irrelevant...you can use the whole of the width of the kerb!

I'm sure that is not what was intended, but that is what the new wording implies!

Edited by bmwguy on Monday 26th August 00:07

[NJH]

Both this rule and the earlier one on the sheet about defending position will be very difficult to police effectively. The only way I can see that new rule about defending position work is for those who were behind to protest and present their video evidence, great for paddock camaraderie that one.

[tapkaJohnD]

I was riding the kerbs at Donny yesterday, I had to as the engine was misfiring.
No one said anything.
JOhn

[spyderman8]

I too responded to the consultation - they've been faffing about with the wording but I still don't think its right.

As has been mentioned (countless times), BTCC and some of the support races make a mockery of the rules.

[BertBert]

tapkaJohnD said:

I was riding the kerbs at Donny yesterday, I had to as the engine was misfiring.
No one said anything.
JOhn

But were you transgressing any of the current rules?

[BertBert]

bmwguy said:

Actually....this is a really poorly thought out piece of drafting. There are many corners where it will allow drivers to stray further off track than they do already. eg Jim Clark Esses at Croft. Currently you have to keep the inside wheels on the track side of the white line or get into trouble...but the curb is at least two car widths there, so under the new rule you will be able to run much wider.

I've not driven Croft. But looking on youtube, I can't see a wide kerb at the Esses.
Bert

[kimducati]

bmwguy said:

Ha ha.....can't stop laughing! Did you watch the touring cars at Knockhill today? !!!

Actually....this is a really poorly thought out piece of drafting. There are many corners where it will allow drivers to stray further off track than they do already. eg Jim Clark Esses at Croft. Currently you have to keep the inside wheels on the track side of the white line or get into trouble...but the curb is at least two car widths there, so under the new rule you will be able to run much wider.

Quoting the new rule...."A driver will be judged to have left the track if any wheel either goes beyond the outer edge of any curb or goes beyond the white line where there is no kerb" (14.4.2b). In other words, where ever there is a kerb the white line is now irrelevant...you can use the whole of the width of the kerb!

I'm sure that is not what was intended, but that is what the new wording implies!

Edited by bmwguy on Monday 26th August 00:07

Couldn't agree more. For what it's worth (and I have nothing to back this up) I think that they meant to say trackside edge of curb. Outer edge could be interpreted either way and would differ whether it was a curb on the apex, or entry / exit of the corner.
And where are the 'judges of fact' going to stand to see all of this?? It'll be chaos.

BTW BTCC have an entirely different set of rules which (theoretically) only apply to them - not joking, they really do!!
Kim

[bmwguy]

I have re-read the old rule and the new one. The old one stated that "the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not..." In the new rule the words "but the kerbs are not" have been deleted. Clearly the kerbs are now part of the track and drivers can use as much of them as they like!

BUT....kerbs are not defined anywhere in the Blue Book that I can find. Do they have to be raised? Do they have to be painted? .....or is any strip of concrete or tarmac which happens to lie outside the white line a kerb? Is grasscrete a kerb? If so, Old Hall at Oulton Park suddenly got a lot quicker!!!