Race simulator for club racers

[BertBert]

QuaifeHobbs said:

and also to bertbert it is shame that your simulator experience was not succesful but i have to say i am not surprised as 'simulators' vary hugely in their quality and execution even though they look similar! When you are driving a car that has been modelled accurately like at Pro-Sim everything you do on the sim would have the same reaction as in real life.
...I would be happy to try and change your mind and outlook on simulators.

Adrian

I would be delighted to have my mind changed Adrian. Let's do it!
Bert

[tristancliffe]

The trouble with the simulators is the tyres really. Nobody has managed to produce an accurate tyre model. In the home market only Assetto Corsa has come close, and in the private market only the expensive secret F1 simulators (not the cheaper ones that we sometimes see photos/videos of).

I don't see lack of g-forces as a major problem. Evaluating setups is possible if the car model is good enough. Even sort of learning a track is possible, to get a feel for the flow and pace of corners. But it can't teach you everything, no matter how accurate the model/track/cockpit/graphics because of the tyres, which are REALLY hard to simulate.

[QuaifeHobbs]

I completely agree with 'tristancliffe' comments on tyres. This was one area I worked really hard on with Pro-Sim, we did this by getting data from Dufurnier and the using the Pacejka formula from the tyre manufacturers. Even after modelling everything with all this information there are a few things that have to be tweaked for 'feel' nothing major because that might change the characteristic's of the tyre but small things are needed which can be carried over on most tyres. All of this is critical to make the car react correctly along with everything else that is modelled on the sim.

[willthisnamework]

The problem with simulators is any billy can do a very quick lap time. I have heard drivers say "Well I'm the quickest in the simulator." as they qualify in P19.

[woof]

willthisnamework said:

The problem with simulators is any billy can do a very quick lap time. I have heard drivers say "Well I'm the quickest in the simulator." as they qualify in P19.

Maybe it's just chat from them
But to be serious for a moment - this isn't a playstation game. It's helped me become a better driver, dare I say a race winning driver and it's worked for me.

Edited by woof on Monday 10th February 09:57

[QuaifeHobbs]

I am sure 'woof' will tell you but at Pro-Sim we do not flatter anyone's ego that's for sure! The other question drivers like that would have to ask themselves is why they can be quick on a sim but not in real life?

[bqf]

Just to add in my two'penneth. I had one afternoon session on the simulator with Adrian before a race at Donington. It was a very useful session for me - the simulator takes a bit of getting used to but once I was over that the characteristics were very, very similar to my actual car. Times weren't far off between the sim and reality either. For me, it was much better than a testing session in the real car, where red flags, slower or faster cars etc can all ruin your test. In the simulator you can focus on the things that need focussing on.

Highly recommended.

[spikey78]

I'm 'a bit' interested in this although I don't know how useful it would be (I've got an old ff2000)
Can I ask how much it costs? I know there's talk of special offers, 50% off and all but that doesn't mean much without knowing what it costs in the first place!

[BertBert]

Off for a go on the Sim this evening. Looking forward to it, should be fun.
Full report later.
Bert

[woof]

BertBert said:

Off for a go on the Sim this evening. Looking forward to it, should be fun.
Full report later.
Bert

Cool
My only tip is treat it like a real test - it's a real car, a real track.

[Graham]

woof said:

BertBert said:

Off for a go on the Sim this evening. Looking forward to it, should be fun.
Full report later.
Bert

Cool
My only tip is treat it like a real test - it's a real car, a real track.

definitely, if you approach it as if its a game and not real thats all it will ever be,, approach it as if its real and you can get a lot out of it.

[BertBert]

It's absolutely real. I have done what I do before a test. Looked at the circuits. Watched video. Thought through the corners. Researched how much time I should be able to find from my best times and others'.

Bert

[BertBert]

So... a very interesting evening.

Arrived late after being stuck in traffic (and I left work extra early). Met Adrian and got straight on with it. Initial setup was to me undrivable, so Adrian quickly changed the setup and we went again. As I remembered, it takes a while to get used to the whole thing, but it felt good and very much like the SR3 I am used to. Then stopped and looked at the data and Adrian suggested some fairly basic driving adjustments. Tried again and they worked and it began to feel good. Had a final look at the data and there's more to do, but overall a good effort in a fairly short time.

And the verdict...yes I am convinced it's a much better tool than I thought. And it leaves me ready to do more...I really want to learn how to drive what feels like a difficult setup but may make me quicker.

So thanks Adrian, your patience was much appreciated and your Sim is brilliant.

Bert

[woof]

I had the same issue when I got into the sim for the first time. I'm back in again in 10 days pre testing for real

[BertBert]

How do you structure your testing in the sim? And how do you transfer that back to the car in the real world?

[woof]

BertBert said:

How do you structure your testing in the sim? And how do you transfer that back to the car in the real world?

What I try to do is understand the physics of driving better - at the end of the day it's all to do with physics and how you control those forces. It's also been very useful in understanding how I need to change my driving style with some of the new mods on the car and also how switching to slicks changes everything.

Adrian's great - I'm sure he sees everything in binary code like Neo ( Matrix )

[BertBert]

woof said:

Adrian's great

I agree 100%.

[ShakeyJake188]

How does this compare to home simulators like rFactor, iRacing and Assetto Corsa?

[woof]

ShakeyJake188 said:

How does this compare to home simulators like rFactor, iRacing and Assetto Corsa?

Those are still games. The race sim is a professional tool. ( Maybe i'm being a little unfair ) but it's a totally different ballgame. Although I know quite a few racers play iRacing.

[NJH]

You will likely find that most of what you are calling pro tools are in fact built on the core of rFactor. The fundamental problem with any of the home sims is lack of representative physical interaction with the controls, its relatively straight forward to generate car models that turn out to have the same limits as a real car (acceleration, braking points, apex speed, exit speed etc.) and very similar resulting lap times even though many of the tracks are inaccurate conversions and hacks. Did this myself starting about 3 years ago with Hartech who just last year dominated the Porsche Club championship. It has its uses more as a physics and analysis tool than a driving tool because of the issue with the controls. Once I realised this fundamental point I realised it was going to be a mountain of time and money I don't have to progress the thing further down that avenue and plenty of others are already doing that as commercial ventures.