Getting Started in Hillclimbs/Sprints
Discussion
Thanks guys, sounds a bit more promising. I think the next step then is to join a club and either attend a club meet, or actual event, with the car to get some expert opinion.
This is she btw:
(Reader's car thread here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )
This is she btw:
(Reader's car thread here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... )
My first event this year is Rockingham on the 16th March and then North Weald on the 30th. You are welcome to either and if you hunt me down in the Paddock I'll try and answer any questions you have. You could of course sort it all out and enter Rockingham 
I did this for a Kit Car forum but there is still some general info in there...
How to guide to sprinting
1. A car (pretty obvious):- Lots of different classes but I'll assume for the sake of this that we are talking about a road-legal kit car. The class of this is specialist sports cars and normally has all the Lotus Exige/Elises & the kits in. Typically split at 1700cc and therefore I run in the Over 1700cc class whereas a 1000cc BEC would be in the under 1700cc Class. I have ended up competing with a 7.3l Ultima! As the car is road legal you will need to prove Tax, MoT (if required & insurance when you sign on. The car most be road legal in all respects and you can use MSA List 1b tyres (R888, A048R etc etc) and you can also use the standard road tyres listed in 1a but you will not do very well unless it rains. Update: BEC now appear to be running in over 1700cc class.
1a. Car Scrutineering :- They will check the car is safe which included FIA in-date harness if you are using harness it must be good condition (doesn't need to be in-date or FIA/MSA approved for road going but I would recommend it), they look under the bonnet (you need to have a yellow earth lead to the battery for easy identification). Although not required in a road class if you have fitted a roll cage it must meet the MSA requirements, same with master electrical switch & manually activated extinguisher. You must also identify how to turn the car off on the dashboard.
2. Clothing/Helmet. You will need a Snell SA2005 or better helmet (open cars required a full face lid), a MSA approved and in-date suit and approved gloves. You don't need boots or underwear but it would be wise to wear them anyway. First time you compete you will need to pay £1 to the scrutineer for "MSA approved" sticker on your helmet.
3. License. To compete in a road-going kit car at Sprints or Hill Climbs you need a MSA Non-Race National B license. The cost is £38 or so and you can apply online at http://www.msauk.org
4. Club membership. You need to belong to a MSA approved club. There are loads of these around but I belong to Sevenoaks & District Motor Club ( http://www.sevenoaksmotorclub.com/ ) & also Tunbridge Well Motor Club ( http://www.twmc.org.uk/ ). Cost is about £20 and it allows you to enter their series.
5. Sprint Entry. Normally the Regs are published a few months before the event and you simple fill in the form and send off your dosh. Small airfield sprints are around £100 and ones on proper circuits can be upto £200. The bigger events get booked up very early so be quick.
Your first sprint
Preparation
Check your car over, make sure everything is connected/tight/bolted down. You will need a timing strut (made and fixed as per the MSA Blue Book, to be fitted on site), some numbers (or black tape) to match your entry numbers (remember to do this once you arrive at the venue not before), your clothing/helmet, a few tools and chair/drink etc.
Turning Up
Be as early as possible as this gives you the time to sort things out. All the instructions will be on the entry information sent through to you. Typically the following happens
a. Turn up and park in the designated area
b. Sign on.....remember all you bits of paper (Insurance, V5, MoT, MSA License, Club Membership card)
c. Fit numbers and timing strut
d. Take car/self/kit to be scrutineered.
e. Walk course (watch flash gits with push bikes do it in a few minutes while you walk round)
f. Drivers Brief
Competition
Normally sprints consisting of 2 practise runs and 3 timed runs. This is typically done in number order do make sure you are ready to queue up, in all your kit, when your class is running. After each run all the times are printed up on a board somewhere so you can see how much in the lead you are
Prize Giving
After the event is finished you will need to hang about to pick up your Fastest Time of the Day trophy (!) or applaud the winners. Normally a pot of 1st & 2nd in each class.
Once it is all done you need to take your timing strut and numbers off the car before going on the public road. This is the point you start planning the next time
It is great fun and I would recommend anyone who fancies it to have a go. Anyone who can drive a car on a trackday can sprint it....
Feel free to ask any questions and I will attempt to answer them with my limited experience.
I did this for a Kit Car forum but there is still some general info in there...
How to guide to sprinting
1. A car (pretty obvious):- Lots of different classes but I'll assume for the sake of this that we are talking about a road-legal kit car. The class of this is specialist sports cars and normally has all the Lotus Exige/Elises & the kits in. Typically split at 1700cc and therefore I run in the Over 1700cc class whereas a 1000cc BEC would be in the under 1700cc Class. I have ended up competing with a 7.3l Ultima! As the car is road legal you will need to prove Tax, MoT (if required & insurance when you sign on. The car most be road legal in all respects and you can use MSA List 1b tyres (R888, A048R etc etc) and you can also use the standard road tyres listed in 1a but you will not do very well unless it rains. Update: BEC now appear to be running in over 1700cc class.
1a. Car Scrutineering :- They will check the car is safe which included FIA in-date harness if you are using harness it must be good condition (doesn't need to be in-date or FIA/MSA approved for road going but I would recommend it), they look under the bonnet (you need to have a yellow earth lead to the battery for easy identification). Although not required in a road class if you have fitted a roll cage it must meet the MSA requirements, same with master electrical switch & manually activated extinguisher. You must also identify how to turn the car off on the dashboard.
2. Clothing/Helmet. You will need a Snell SA2005 or better helmet (open cars required a full face lid), a MSA approved and in-date suit and approved gloves. You don't need boots or underwear but it would be wise to wear them anyway. First time you compete you will need to pay £1 to the scrutineer for "MSA approved" sticker on your helmet.
3. License. To compete in a road-going kit car at Sprints or Hill Climbs you need a MSA Non-Race National B license. The cost is £38 or so and you can apply online at http://www.msauk.org
4. Club membership. You need to belong to a MSA approved club. There are loads of these around but I belong to Sevenoaks & District Motor Club ( http://www.sevenoaksmotorclub.com/ ) & also Tunbridge Well Motor Club ( http://www.twmc.org.uk/ ). Cost is about £20 and it allows you to enter their series.
5. Sprint Entry. Normally the Regs are published a few months before the event and you simple fill in the form and send off your dosh. Small airfield sprints are around £100 and ones on proper circuits can be upto £200. The bigger events get booked up very early so be quick.
Your first sprint
Preparation
Check your car over, make sure everything is connected/tight/bolted down. You will need a timing strut (made and fixed as per the MSA Blue Book, to be fitted on site), some numbers (or black tape) to match your entry numbers (remember to do this once you arrive at the venue not before), your clothing/helmet, a few tools and chair/drink etc.
Turning Up
Be as early as possible as this gives you the time to sort things out. All the instructions will be on the entry information sent through to you. Typically the following happens
a. Turn up and park in the designated area
b. Sign on.....remember all you bits of paper (Insurance, V5, MoT, MSA License, Club Membership card)
c. Fit numbers and timing strut
d. Take car/self/kit to be scrutineered.
e. Walk course (watch flash gits with push bikes do it in a few minutes while you walk round)
f. Drivers Brief
Competition
Normally sprints consisting of 2 practise runs and 3 timed runs. This is typically done in number order do make sure you are ready to queue up, in all your kit, when your class is running. After each run all the times are printed up on a board somewhere so you can see how much in the lead you are
Prize Giving
After the event is finished you will need to hang about to pick up your Fastest Time of the Day trophy (!) or applaud the winners. Normally a pot of 1st & 2nd in each class.
Once it is all done you need to take your timing strut and numbers off the car before going on the public road. This is the point you start planning the next time
It is great fun and I would recommend anyone who fancies it to have a go. Anyone who can drive a car on a trackday can sprint it....
Feel free to ask any questions and I will attempt to answer them with my limited experience.
I started doing some sprint events back in 2011, for the same reasons as the OP. I have to say, I was made welcome at each event I entered and fellow competitors were always very helpful. My first year was in an e21 BMW, but with a larger 16v engine from a later car. As a result, I was in a class with much quicker cars. It didn't stop me having great fun though. I was a bit nervous at my first event but soon gained some confidence and began to really enjoy myself. I had to take last year off, due to finance and poor health, but am entered at Crystal Palace in May. Hopefully I will be doing some events in Cornwall too.
OP - Your Escort looks great and is just about ideal for these kind of events. I'm in an E30 M3 this year and am looking forward to finally having something competitive. What events have you been looking at entering?
OP - Your Escort looks great and is just about ideal for these kind of events. I'm in an E30 M3 this year and am looking forward to finally having something competitive. What events have you been looking at entering?
I haven't really got that far yet Mark! Basically any event within a couple of hours of Tring (in Herts) that will have me
I'm about to join the Herts County Auto and Aero Club which will hopefully get me well on the way...
(Thanks hugely again for all the great advice guys, much appreciated.)
I'm about to join the Herts County Auto and Aero Club which will hopefully get me well on the way...
(Thanks hugely again for all the great advice guys, much appreciated.)
You could enter Crystal Palace.
http://www.motorsportatthepalace.co.uk/
I did an event at North Weald and have to say, that as a venue, I wasn't impressed. The surface is bloody awful and there were lots of stones etc strewn around. As a first event it was also tough to see which way the cones want you to go. Obviously this is just my opinion.
http://www.motorsportatthepalace.co.uk/
I did an event at North Weald and have to say, that as a venue, I wasn't impressed. The surface is bloody awful and there were lots of stones etc strewn around. As a first event it was also tough to see which way the cones want you to go. Obviously this is just my opinion.
andylaurence said:
Some of the information here is right and some is not.
You need a helmet, suit and gloves to the right spec.
You need a non-race Nat B licence. Nat A Open is only required for Sports Libre and Racing Cars of over 2000cc. There's no need for an ARDS.
But what about Nat A (not Nat A Open)? I think because of the engine and box the car will be in the Sports Libre category, and I've been told, but am finding it difficult to confirm in the Blue Book, that SL<2litre requires a Nat A licence.You need a helmet, suit and gloves to the right spec.
You need a non-race Nat B licence. Nat A Open is only required for Sports Libre and Racing Cars of over 2000cc. There's no need for an ARDS.
7.1.5.
Any Driver competing in a Racing or Sports Libre
car manufactured after 1960 of more than 2000cc (or
1428cc if forced induction) must hold a Speed National
A (OPEN) or Race National A Licence (H.16.1.1), unless
the car is currently licensed for use on the public
highway and competes in the event in a road-legal
condition.
Under 2000cc or 1428cc with Forced induction is the same as the rest of the event (so Nat B if a Nat B event or Nat A if it is a Nat A event.)
Any Driver competing in a Racing or Sports Libre
car manufactured after 1960 of more than 2000cc (or
1428cc if forced induction) must hold a Speed National
A (OPEN) or Race National A Licence (H.16.1.1), unless
the car is currently licensed for use on the public
highway and competes in the event in a road-legal
condition.
Under 2000cc or 1428cc with Forced induction is the same as the rest of the event (so Nat B if a Nat B event or Nat A if it is a Nat A event.)
Edited by jeffw on Thursday 27th February 13:58
Apologies for the naive question, but what's the difference between "non-race Nat B" and "Nat B"? I'm hoping speed events mean the former, because, well, they aren't races. If it's the latter, how do I get one? ARDS test is a non-issue (I'd quite like to do this anyway as a "fun" day out, and to learn some stuff). If it means getting signatures from events though, major issue/catch 22 for me.
Edited by AndyGarton on Thursday 27th February 14:05
You need a non-race Nat B (or better) to compete in Sprints/Hillclimbs. If you have a Race Nat B it is considered to be OK to sprint but a non-race Nat B isn't OK to race with. Race Nat B requires ARDS and a medical , non-race doesn't.
When I refer to Nat B in Sprint terms I am talking Non-race.
When I refer to Nat B in Sprint terms I am talking Non-race.
AndyGarton said:
Also, do I need six point harnesses (or anything else beyond ignition stickers, yellow battery tape and a timing strut) for under 2000cc Sport Libre, or does my car being road legal mean this isn't necessary?
No you don't, Sport Libre must comply with Blue Book so I assume (without looking) you will need 4 point. jeffw said:
No you don't, Sport Libre must comply with Blue Book so I assume (without looking) you will need 4 point.
BlueBook said:
S.10.1.11. Hill Climb Super Sports Cars, Sports Libre
Cars and Racing Cars must comply with K.2.1.3.
Cars and Racing Cars must comply with K.2.1.3.
BlueBook said:
K.2.1.3. Five point. Two shoulder straps, one lap strap
and one strap between the legs with five anchorage
points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the
vehicle, one either side of the driver, two to the rear of
the driver’s seat and one between the legs.
and one strap between the legs with five anchorage
points on the chassis/body shell or roll over bar of the
vehicle, one either side of the driver, two to the rear of
the driver’s seat and one between the legs.
AndyGarton said:
Also, do I need six point harnesses (or anything else beyond ignition stickers, yellow battery tape and a timing strut) for under 2000cc Sport Libre, or does my car being road legal mean this isn't necessary?
BTW, you can always call the MSA and ask questions like this!http://www.msauk.org/site/cms/contentChapterView.a...
A bit annoyed with the MSA!
I just paid 95 quid for the "Go Racing Pack" which arrived today - you don't even get the Blue Book in hard copy any more, just the DVD, plus a pen, in a fancy box. The application form they included is for "Race" licenses only, not the Non-Race National B. I've since downloaded the PDF form from their site for nothing!
(I had also attempted to apply online, but after 20 minutes of faffing with photos etc, it fails at the end with a vague "you must apply by post" error.)
Bit of a shambles really, and 95 quid for a pen
I just paid 95 quid for the "Go Racing Pack" which arrived today - you don't even get the Blue Book in hard copy any more, just the DVD, plus a pen, in a fancy box. The application form they included is for "Race" licenses only, not the Non-Race National B. I've since downloaded the PDF form from their site for nothing!
(I had also attempted to apply online, but after 20 minutes of faffing with photos etc, it fails at the end with a vague "you must apply by post" error.)
Bit of a shambles really, and 95 quid for a pen
If in doubt, have a check on the web..
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/2014_...
Did the MSA competition dept give you wrong advice??
http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_forms/2014_...
Did the MSA competition dept give you wrong advice??
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