Donington Track Safety

[mcdjl]

woof said:

Ouch - when did this happen ?

I'm punting a guess at recently. They've moved that wall back again over the winter and when he's facing back up hill just before the wall impact there brown strip between the wall and the grass is the difference if I'm looking at it right.

[ryansavage]

mcdjl said:

woof said:

Ouch - when did this happen ?

I'm punting a guess at recently. They've moved that wall back again over the winter and when he's facing back up hill just before the wall impact there brown strip between the wall and the grass is the difference if I'm looking at it right.

Happened on Tuesday.

[jonnyleroux]

Ryan,

First and foremost, I'm glad to hear the injuries weren't too serious and hope the shoulder makes a full and speedy recovery.

I'm confused by your comments about Donington safety though. In what way do you think the circuit should be changed/improved? In my opinion, the run-off at Craners is longer than at *any* point around Oulton, Cadwell, Combe or Goodwood. The fact that you've gone off the right of the track on a left hander is a freak accident but looking to blame Donington is wholly wrong. You also seem to have forgotten that the Donington safety team treated you for over an hour on Tuesday (at everyone elses expense in terms of lost track-time) with no mention whatsoever of the support you received.

Are you suggesting they should have had tyres there? There are policies in place by the MSA to determinte where a circuit should use tyres and where they should use something that does not bounce the vehicle back into the path of oncoming cars.

I can understand your frustration having shunted badly, but it does nothing to help this industry when people make blanket comments about track safety - especially when Donington is statistically one of the safest venues we visit (based on the 15+ years of red flag data we hold at least).

Jonny
BaT

[37chevy]

jonnyleroux said:

Ryan,

First and foremost, I'm glad to hear the injuries weren't too serious and hope the shoulder makes a full and speedy recovery.

I'm confused by your comments about Donington safety though. In what way do you think the circuit should be changed/improved? In my opinion, the run-off at Craners is longer than at *any* point around Oulton, Cadwell, Combe or Goodwood. The fact that you've gone off the right of the track on a left hander is a freak accident but looking to blame Donington is wholly wrong. You also seem to have forgotten that the Donington safety team treated you for over an hour on Tuesday (at everyone elses expense in terms of lost track-time) with no mention whatsoever of the support you received.

Are you suggesting they should have had tyres there? There are policies in place by the MSA to determinte where a circuit should use tyres and where they should use something that does not bounce the vehicle back into the path of oncoming cars.

I can understand your frustration having shunted badly, but it does nothing to help this industry when people make blanket comments about track safety - especially when Donington is statistically one of the safest venues we visit (based on the 15+ years of red flag data we hold at least).

Jonny
BaT

Indeed, plus lets face it the MSA wouldn't give donington a licence if it wasn't up to the safety requirements

I would also like to hear from the above racer to have his ideas on how to improve the safety....a gravel trap maybe? however that would have flipped the car before the tyres, different angle of tyre barrier, then he would have hit it head on.....what exactly should donington do

[ryansavage]

jonnyleroux said:

Ryan,

First and foremost, I'm glad to hear the injuries weren't too serious and hope the shoulder makes a full and speedy recovery.

I'm confused by your comments about Donington safety though. In what way do you think the circuit should be changed/improved? In my opinion, the run-off at Craners is longer than at *any* point around Oulton, Cadwell, Combe or Goodwood. The fact that you've gone off the right of the track on a left hander is a freak accident but looking to blame Donington is wholly wrong. You also seem to have forgotten that the Donington safety team treated you for over an hour on Tuesday (at everyone elses expense in terms of lost track-time) with no mention whatsoever of the support you received.

Are you suggesting they should have had tyres there? There are policies in place by the MSA to determinte where a circuit should use tyres and where they should use something that does not bounce the vehicle back into the path of oncoming cars.

I can understand your frustration having shunted badly, but it does nothing to help this industry when people make blanket comments about track safety - especially when Donington is statistically one of the safest venues we visit (based on the 15+ years of red flag data we hold at least).

Jonny
BaT

Hi Jonny,

Thanks again for running a great day, I can only apologise for causing the delay. The medical team did a great job and I am very appreciative of them and of your team. In my opinion a concrete barrier should not be there, the tyre wall should be extended to cover this area. Thanks again. Ryan

[woof]

Last years changes were not safe in my and many other drivers. And Donington no doubt realised that and made changes to that over the winter. Unfortunately that didn't stop your very heavy impact. Personally I do feel that wall should have a multiple layers of tyres for added protection. Safety efforts should always be moving forward.

http://www.donington-park.co.uk/news/2015/02/05/wi...

[jonnyleroux]

woof said:

Personally I do feel that wall should have a multiple layers of tyres for added protection.

See my point below about tyres causing a rebound effect. At fast parts of the circuit where the vehicle can be bounced back into the circuit it's common practice to have armco/concrete instead of tyres (see every pit wall of every race track ever!).

Jonny
BaT

[woof]

Hey Jonny - A pitwall is somewhat different I feel. Sadly I'm all too aware of the the results of hitting a concrete wall with Sean Edwards death. The impact into was was an immovable concrete wall was horrific. Although other factors were also involved in that accident.

As I said - The MSA, circuits and drivers should never be complacent about safety and should always be looking in ways to improve it for all involved. And Donington has indeed improved things over the winter. Unlike Brands who in my opinion have made Paddock more dangerous by putting that raised curb on the exit in their ongoing madness to prevent drivers running a wheel over a kerb. No doubt Palmer won't stop until he has a sniper on every corner (rant over).

[jonnyleroux]

woof said:

The MSA, circuits and drivers should never be complacent about safety and should always be looking in ways to improve it for all involved.

Agree 100%, but I still think Donington is one of the safest venues in the UK and if we're campaigning for circuit safety there are several circuits I would be concentrating my efforts on before Donington!

What we don't want/need is a situation where race tracks are (even less) viable businesses due to overly stringent regulations. Most of the circuits in UK are worth more as housing or industrial estates. I think we all panicked when Gilette left Donington in a mess that it would end up going to DHL or for airport parking. It's only a matter of time before the Brands GP look goes for housing.

Jonny

ETA
Sorry, but sigs not allowed.

[woof]

Agreed. Donington is definitely one of safest and my favourite tracks in the UK

[spyderman8]

jonnyleroux said:

See my point below about tyres causing a rebound effect. At fast parts of the circuit where the vehicle can be bounced back into the circuit it's common practice to have armco/concrete instead of tyres (see every pit wall of every race track ever!).

There is some give to Armco - there is NONE with concrete with a bank piled behind it. There should be tyres in front here - its far enough back from the track that a car isn't going to get bounced back on the circuit.

[jonnyleroux]

spyderman8 said:

There is some give to Armco - there is NONE with concrete with a bank piled behind it. There should be tyres in front here - its far enough back from the track that a car isn't going to get bounced back on the circuit.

If you'd seen how far the car bounced from concrete you'd have a rethink!

Jonny

ETA
Sorry, but sigs not allowed.

Edited by Big Al. on Friday 15th May 22:23

[egor110]

ryansavage said:

Hi Jonny,

Thanks again for running a great day, I can only apologise for causing the delay. The medical team did a great job and I am very appreciative of them and of your team. In my opinion a concrete barrier should not be there, the tyre wall should be extended to cover this area. Thanks again. Ryan

If you think a wall shouldn't of been there why did you still decide to pay out for a track day, knowing full well the wall was there?

[Maxx]

All tracks, UK or overseas have danger areas and i'm sure Donington like all other tracks worldwide look at incidents and try to learn from them and if necassary and possible make changes to lessen the danger. There is definitely a danger of rebound from a car hitting this section if tyred but equally had the car been slightly further to the left of the wall it would have crossed the track out of control further up. I've seen cars go off even more to the left and crossing the track at very high speed and reaching the barrier on the far side of the old hairpin. Cars even further left generally end up in the gravel but I've seen more than one on it's roof there.

All track have multiple danger area where unusual incidents can result in major damage or injury but it's an impossible job to guard against all, we'd end up with circuit where spectators would need binoculars to see the action.

I'm sure Donington Safety team will have studied this incident and if action is needed it will be taken.

[itdontgo]

Well if you think Donnington is bad don't go to Oulton Park!

[spikey78]

Maybe the fact that you went off because of mechanical failure meant that you hit a wall in an area not usually considered a danger and as such had no tyre wall or whatever.
I hit a wall at Sillystone once in a bit of an odd crash (before Becketts, on the left..). Smashed the car to bits, I didn't think the track was unsafe though-i just considered it my bad luck for crashing in a weird place!

[Potatoes]

A lot of the comments here stink of complacency... Ryan's was a fairly serious accident, could have been worse and rather than brushing it, off lessons should be learned.

Is there a little arse covering going on?

[37chevy]

Potatoes said:

A lot of the comments here stink of complacency... Ryan's was a fairly serious accident, could have been worse and rather than brushing it, off lessons should be learned.

Is there a little arse covering going on?

If that was aimed at me amongst other then no arse covering involved....I have nothing to do with donington/ track days etc....yes safety can always be improved but it isn't as easy as throwing a gravel trap here and there. I've been going to Donington and other circuits for almost 20 years and never seen a car go that far off there.....it was an unusual accident, if you check the video the driver was unlucky...he only just missed the end of the already very long tyre wall....maybe it can be extended in the future I suppose but cars very VERY rarely head in that direction

[Potatoes]

Not aimed at you mate.

There seems to be a lot of comments suggesting it's one of the safest tracks, referring to current safety guidelines and even questioning Ryan... which is odd as every accident like this serves to highlight another area to improve safety and that should be the focus, irrespective of whether the circuit meets current requirements or where the circuit stands on a safety/accident list.

[37chevy]

Potatoes said:

Not aimed at you mate.

There seems to be a lot of comments suggesting it's one of the safest tracks, referring to current safety guidelines and even questioning Ryan... which is odd as every accident like this serves to highlight another area to improve safety and that should be the focus, irrespective of whether the circuit meets current requirements or where the circuit stands on a safety/accident list.

Ahh kk, to be fair to others it is one of the safest tracks in the UK and has a cracking medical team....that's not to say things can't improve, we should learn from ALL accidents, and improve safety without over reacting and making rash changes that could cause further issues in the future