Ever wondered what a 12 Car Rally is all about
Discussion
Well here you are;
Written by a chap who had never tried one before and was obviously hooked first time. Note I have no connection with Southsea Motor Club, but have asked permission to post this to help bring more people into the sport.
http://www.southseamotorclub.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...
Written by a chap who had never tried one before and was obviously hooked first time. Note I have no connection with Southsea Motor Club, but have asked permission to post this to help bring more people into the sport.
http://www.southseamotorclub.co.uk/wp-content/uplo...
Wikipedia said:
A 12-car rally is a type of car rally, often run by motor clubs as a simple and strictly amateur form of the sport.
12-car rallies are run to Navigational Rally rules, which are based on navigational skills rather than speed, and with usually a notable social element too. In the United Kingdom, the rules for 12-cars are governed by the Motor Sports Association UK (MSA)[1] and are as follows:
Maximum of 12 competing vehicles per event (hence the name)
Generally only standard road cars permitted, not fully prepared cars (this is at the discretion of the organising club, but is widely upheld)
Maximum 30 mph average speed only
"Plot 'n' bash" navigation only
No timing to the second permitted, only to the previous minute
"PR" (public relations) work as necessary if the route affects residential areas, this is as for a road rally but the requirements are not quite as strict
Police to be informed of the event, though route information does not need to be submitted and approved
Route authorisation must be granted from the MSA's local representative.
12-car rallies are run to Navigational Rally rules, which are based on navigational skills rather than speed, and with usually a notable social element too. In the United Kingdom, the rules for 12-cars are governed by the Motor Sports Association UK (MSA)[1] and are as follows:
Maximum of 12 competing vehicles per event (hence the name)
Generally only standard road cars permitted, not fully prepared cars (this is at the discretion of the organising club, but is widely upheld)
Maximum 30 mph average speed only
"Plot 'n' bash" navigation only
No timing to the second permitted, only to the previous minute
"PR" (public relations) work as necessary if the route affects residential areas, this is as for a road rally but the requirements are not quite as strict
Police to be informed of the event, though route information does not need to be submitted and approved
Route authorisation must be granted from the MSA's local representative.
eastlmark said:
velocemitch said:
But did reading that make you think, perhaps that might be fun?.
Maybe.... but not for me I think. What is the significance of the "12"? (or is it the obvious answer of the number of cars entered?)civicduty said:
Wikipedia said:
A 12-car rally is a type of car rally, often run by motor clubs as a simple and strictly amateur form of the sport.
12-car rallies are run to Navigational Rally rules, which are based on navigational skills rather than speed, and with usually a notable social element too. In the United Kingdom, the rules for 12-cars are governed by the Motor Sports Association UK (MSA)[1] and are as follows:
Maximum of 12 competing vehicles per event (hence the name)
Generally only standard road cars permitted, not fully prepared cars (this is at the discretion of the organising club, but is widely upheld)
Maximum 30 mph average speed only
"Plot 'n' bash" navigation only
No timing to the second permitted, only to the previous minute
"PR" (public relations) work as necessary if the route affects residential areas, this is as for a road rally but the requirements are not quite as strict
Police to be informed of the event, though route information does not need to be submitted and approved
Route authorisation must be granted from the MSA's local representative.
12-car rallies are run to Navigational Rally rules, which are based on navigational skills rather than speed, and with usually a notable social element too. In the United Kingdom, the rules for 12-cars are governed by the Motor Sports Association UK (MSA)[1] and are as follows:
Maximum of 12 competing vehicles per event (hence the name)
Generally only standard road cars permitted, not fully prepared cars (this is at the discretion of the organising club, but is widely upheld)
Maximum 30 mph average speed only
"Plot 'n' bash" navigation only
No timing to the second permitted, only to the previous minute
"PR" (public relations) work as necessary if the route affects residential areas, this is as for a road rally but the requirements are not quite as strict
Police to be informed of the event, though route information does not need to be submitted and approved
Route authorisation must be granted from the MSA's local representative.
Standard Road Cars are normally used but there is nothing stopping you entering a full house Stage Rally Car (in theory) In reality many people do 12 Cars in Road Rally prepped Cars.
30MPH average is the same for all road based motorsport, including Road Rallying and the Road sections of Stage Rallies.
Plot n bash is often used, but is not mandatory, Obviously Southsea MC provide a marked map at the start for Beginners (that is not plot and bash), last time I organised one I provided pre-plot information for novices. PnB is a good way of ensuring you get a result amongst experts though. On PnB you are presented with the route for each section at the start of that section, plotting it on to the map as you go using various forms of 'clues' as to which roads to use.
Timing to the second is allowed and always used on regularity sections, it's sensible to run it as 30MPH regularity as it is harder to 'clean' a section as even if you end up early you cannot wait outside a control or you would be penalised. Be assured though on many sections you will NOT be early!. However timing to the minute on 'standard' sections can be just as difficult if the organiser is a bit cute about how it's timed. I like to do half and half as timed to the minute tends to give the event more of the feel of a Road Rally.
PR requirements aren't too bad, much less onerous than a Road Rally, but the Route does have to be submitted to the MSA Route Liaison Officer. I think it is wise to advice the Police but not mandatory, the RLO should do that as a matter of course. There is nothing illegal about it and as long as Traffic laws are seen to be obeyed the Police are usually fine about it. What they don't see they don't mind either.....
itdontgo said:
It doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Is it really tearing along open public roads at night were you can't (see) anything or more importantly (see) anyone?
Did you miss out the word I've added?The hours of darkness are considered a benefit as you can see other road users from their headlights much easier than you can in daylight, also generally the back roads are less used by non motorists at night. Daylight road events (typically Historic Road Rallies) tend to run at lower speeds. MSA insist 12 Cars are run in the darker evenings and Road Rallies are always run in the night, usually starting the first competitive section at midnight.
You are obviously entitled to your opinion and you wouldn't be the only one thinking that. But as ever you have to understand the situation to make a sound judgement. Each Crew is responsible for their own actions and rules such as the Standing Give Way (IE you must stop at a give way even if it's clear), Quiets - areas where low speed high gear and no spotlights are part of the rules, transgressing them will earn you a disqualification.
In reality there isn't much of a problem with a properly organised and run 12 Car.
Standard Road Cars are normally used but there is nothing stopping you entering a full house Stage Rally Car (in theory) In reality many people do 12 Cars in Road Rally prepped Cars.
Ian, have things changed, I thought cars had to be under a certain cc, single colour, max4 lights etc or have things changed since I used to road rally/12 car
Last 12 car I did was with Newcastle Club IIRC, went out with a first timer in his Vectra.
Wonder if he ever got the smell of vomit out of the "fresh air" vent.....
Wasn't normally sick but a late burger when out with Dave Lee in the 80's was left at the road side and a very early 12 car in the 70's saw a green me navigating in a Rover 2000 with only 1st and 4th gear.
I miss these events now, but batting around the country lanes in a 1700 Escort or a 2.3 Firenza or whatever would probably be more dangerous now than in the 70's and 80's.
Last two outings were in a Volvo P544, a couple of years back, that was different.
Ian, have things changed, I thought cars had to be under a certain cc, single colour, max4 lights etc or have things changed since I used to road rally/12 car
Last 12 car I did was with Newcastle Club IIRC, went out with a first timer in his Vectra.
Wonder if he ever got the smell of vomit out of the "fresh air" vent.....
Wasn't normally sick but a late burger when out with Dave Lee in the 80's was left at the road side and a very early 12 car in the 70's saw a green me navigating in a Rover 2000 with only 1st and 4th gear.
I miss these events now, but batting around the country lanes in a 1700 Escort or a 2.3 Firenza or whatever would probably be more dangerous now than in the 70's and 80's.
Last two outings were in a Volvo P544, a couple of years back, that was different.
Tony, not much has changed for a while, just some tweaks last year. It has been the case for a while that an event run under a 'Road Rally' permit cannot use cars which are multi coloured, have twin cam/four choke engines, are more than 4 Cylinder have Turbo's etc etc. This was to stop people running the full house works spec cars. The recent Tweak has allowed Turbo's up to 1.5 Litre, which will help the future given that most new cars these days have a Turbo.
However those rules do not apply to Navigational Rallies and 12 Cars, so it opens up a lot of possibilities, depending on how you decide to interpret the blue book. Most clubs will insist that there are no more than four forward facing lights and that Cars covered in Sponsors stickers are excluded. But I have seen a Group 4 Escort on a certain North East Navigational event, it was entered to allow the crew (who were complete novices) to get enough events on their licences to enter the Roger Albert Clark. Somebody in Scotland is running an Audi Quattro regularly. I've also seen a Stage prepped Imprezza on our club 12 Cars and scatters too.
My own Alfa 105 Coupe is not eligible for road rallies due it's twin cam engine fed by twin double choke carbs, it is perfectly acceptable on a Navigational though and I've done a number of them. It's not clear how the residents on the route can tell the difference between what permit you are running under when you drive past. Those that think Navigationals are always slower than road rallies are not living in the real world. 12 Cars do tend to be slower though...... generally!
You should have another go Tony, nothing stopping you running a 73 Mini Clubman, where abouts are you?
However those rules do not apply to Navigational Rallies and 12 Cars, so it opens up a lot of possibilities, depending on how you decide to interpret the blue book. Most clubs will insist that there are no more than four forward facing lights and that Cars covered in Sponsors stickers are excluded. But I have seen a Group 4 Escort on a certain North East Navigational event, it was entered to allow the crew (who were complete novices) to get enough events on their licences to enter the Roger Albert Clark. Somebody in Scotland is running an Audi Quattro regularly. I've also seen a Stage prepped Imprezza on our club 12 Cars and scatters too.
My own Alfa 105 Coupe is not eligible for road rallies due it's twin cam engine fed by twin double choke carbs, it is perfectly acceptable on a Navigational though and I've done a number of them. It's not clear how the residents on the route can tell the difference between what permit you are running under when you drive past. Those that think Navigationals are always slower than road rallies are not living in the real world. 12 Cars do tend to be slower though...... generally!
You should have another go Tony, nothing stopping you running a 73 Mini Clubman, where abouts are you?
Edited by velocemitch on Sunday 7th September 12:12
Dave Brand said:
Just got round to reading the "Beginners Guide".
There's an interesting concept under "What will slow me down": ""Getting lost"! As a rally navigator in the dim, distant past I don't remember ever getting lost. "Temporarily unaware of my exact location" is the correct terminology!
Or in my case.....There's an interesting concept under "What will slow me down": ""Getting lost"! As a rally navigator in the dim, distant past I don't remember ever getting lost. "Temporarily unaware of my exact location" is the correct terminology!
"Just checking out all the sneaky alternative locations for code boards, honest!".
Coincidentally, I'm planning a come-back to 12-Car rallies via SouthSea MC. When I live din Aberdeen in 98/99 I organised some, probably haven't competed on one for nearly 20 years!
Hello All,
Just remembered about this thread - my workmate Mo and I started the SouthSea MC 12 car (Monkey Puzzle) in october, but had to pull out half way as Mo (the driver) got sick.
It was really good up till then, great roads and a real brain challenge!
This Friday past, my fiend Graham and I did the Sevenoaks MC 12 car and did much better. We cleaned the rally (no time dropped and got all the route checks) and finished first novice. We lost out on the tie break so got 3rd overall in the end. We did that in my huge Volvo XC70 which proves you didn't need a real rally car to have fun. Again it was brilliant fun.
There are plenty of 12 cars around the South - there are probably at least 3 a month over the winter. PM if you want to know more.
Cheers
Just remembered about this thread - my workmate Mo and I started the SouthSea MC 12 car (Monkey Puzzle) in october, but had to pull out half way as Mo (the driver) got sick.
It was really good up till then, great roads and a real brain challenge!
This Friday past, my fiend Graham and I did the Sevenoaks MC 12 car and did much better. We cleaned the rally (no time dropped and got all the route checks) and finished first novice. We lost out on the tie break so got 3rd overall in the end. We did that in my huge Volvo XC70 which proves you didn't need a real rally car to have fun. Again it was brilliant fun.
There are plenty of 12 cars around the South - there are probably at least 3 a month over the winter. PM if you want to know more.
Cheers
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