Endurance (8 hr) race prep
Discussion
Gents, do many of you take part in endurance events?
I'm racing in the Mission Motorsport Race of Remembrance in November at Anglesey (thread in the general motorsport forum for anyone interested) and have never done one of these long races.
Can anyone give any helpful pointers?! Working on the assumption that the car (a BMW Compact Cup car) will be set up correctly by a dude who knows about these kinds of things, what else should we be doing?!
The bottom line is this:
8 hour race
1 car with 4 drivers
Pitstops must be minimum of 3 minutes
I'm starting to wonder how we best plan driver times etc. We'll have a full day of testing on Anglesey the day before but we really want to get as much squared away before then as possible.
Cheers,
Ben
I'm racing in the Mission Motorsport Race of Remembrance in November at Anglesey (thread in the general motorsport forum for anyone interested) and have never done one of these long races.
Can anyone give any helpful pointers?! Working on the assumption that the car (a BMW Compact Cup car) will be set up correctly by a dude who knows about these kinds of things, what else should we be doing?!
The bottom line is this:
8 hour race
1 car with 4 drivers
Pitstops must be minimum of 3 minutes
I'm starting to wonder how we best plan driver times etc. We'll have a full day of testing on Anglesey the day before but we really want to get as much squared away before then as possible.
Cheers,
Ben
how long can you run on fuel and tyres, that gives you your first guide.
the regs will usually state a max time in the car per stint and a min break time, or have some driver time restriction so look at that too.
The next thing to consider is driver fitness, and how hard the car is to drive. If you can do it on tyres and fuel it might look obvious to say 4 driver each do a 2 hour stint. but if all you've ever done is a 15 min race that might be a tall order..
one hour stints are probably the place to start to keep the drivers freshish and giving them each 2 stints gives a good break and more chance of everyone getting a drive.
also remember any plan needs to be flexible to take account of safety cars, repairs etc, and you want to be ready to respond. make sure you know where the drivers are and keep at least on in the garage at all times..
we lost time once when we had just done a driver change, and the car came back in after 1 lap as the driver had a bit of carbon fibre in his eye, the previous driver had gone for a shower and the next driver was nowhere to be seen as he wasnt due on for a few hours..
8 hours is a long time, so have a think about how you will maybe change brakes, if needed disks pads and calipers get very hot!!, keep an eye on all fluids etc.
as its the first time maybe schedule in some service time.. dont underestimate how hard it is on a car, a 20 min race is one thing but over 2-3 hours is something very different
and dont forget to have fun.
I've run a fair few 24hr cars so happy to bounce any questions via pm if you like
the regs will usually state a max time in the car per stint and a min break time, or have some driver time restriction so look at that too.
The next thing to consider is driver fitness, and how hard the car is to drive. If you can do it on tyres and fuel it might look obvious to say 4 driver each do a 2 hour stint. but if all you've ever done is a 15 min race that might be a tall order..
one hour stints are probably the place to start to keep the drivers freshish and giving them each 2 stints gives a good break and more chance of everyone getting a drive.
also remember any plan needs to be flexible to take account of safety cars, repairs etc, and you want to be ready to respond. make sure you know where the drivers are and keep at least on in the garage at all times..
we lost time once when we had just done a driver change, and the car came back in after 1 lap as the driver had a bit of carbon fibre in his eye, the previous driver had gone for a shower and the next driver was nowhere to be seen as he wasnt due on for a few hours..
8 hours is a long time, so have a think about how you will maybe change brakes, if needed disks pads and calipers get very hot!!, keep an eye on all fluids etc.
as its the first time maybe schedule in some service time.. dont underestimate how hard it is on a car, a 20 min race is one thing but over 2-3 hours is something very different
and dont forget to have fun.
I've run a fair few 24hr cars so happy to bounce any questions via pm if you like
One thing, you say you have a test day the day before...my advice would be to do the minimum amount of running possible to save the car...
you need to get each driver comfy in the car, work out drinks bottles, radios etc. make sure they all know the switch gear!!! take some photos and print them all out so they know if not familiar with the car.
Then sort out how you do driver changes. make sure everyone in your crew in the hot pit lane knows exactly what to do. I also give each crew member a part of the car to check each time it comes in and also do a walk around myself to check everything looks ok.
IF you want to do a big test with lots of laps do it aleast a week before, that one extra lap in testing can be the difference between a finish and a non finish, or even a dns if you blow something up or stuff it.
you need to get each driver comfy in the car, work out drinks bottles, radios etc. make sure they all know the switch gear!!! take some photos and print them all out so they know if not familiar with the car.
Then sort out how you do driver changes. make sure everyone in your crew in the hot pit lane knows exactly what to do. I also give each crew member a part of the car to check each time it comes in and also do a walk around myself to check everything looks ok.
IF you want to do a big test with lots of laps do it aleast a week before, that one extra lap in testing can be the difference between a finish and a non finish, or even a dns if you blow something up or stuff it.
Superb stuff, thanks Graham 
I'd not thought about lots of those, especially going easy on the car on the test day - excellent point.
Also a good call is giving drivers a job to do during pitstops etc.
We're running with full support crew but, as always, the more (experienced) hands the better.
As it's Anglesey there aren't too many places for us drivers to wander off too but we'll make sure we have people close to hand.
Fitness: good question! We're a motley crew and all of us are big (and I mean properly big!) - this has had some impact on the type of car we can use and we're all too tall for a lot of mid engine stuff due to firewalls/bulkheads etc. I rally historic cars so am used to doing 18 hours driving as fast as I can. One of the others has just ridden his motorbike from Kabul to Goodwood so I've no worries about him. Another is a bit of a track fiend and the last one likes smoking cigars and eating steak - I'll have a word with him
Looking through the regs the stuff that stands out is as follows:
1) Each driver must do a minimum of 3 test laps.
2) A driver may not drive for more than 3 hours out of a 5 hour window.
3) Fuelling only allowed after 30 mins from start and before 30 mins from end.
As you point out we'll want to do a fair bit of work on the practicalities of getting straight in the driver seat and driver change overs etc. 3 drivers are 6'2'' - 6'4'' and the other 6' so we'll need to give that some thought and practice no doubt.
Hadn't thought about drinks etc.
Also need to come up with a very simple pit board plan - obviously we're not running with car to pit comms and I expect it'll be inches deep in rain during the race so that needs some thought.
Thanks again, really useful stuff.
Ben
I'd not thought about lots of those, especially going easy on the car on the test day - excellent point.
Also a good call is giving drivers a job to do during pitstops etc.
We're running with full support crew but, as always, the more (experienced) hands the better.
As it's Anglesey there aren't too many places for us drivers to wander off too but we'll make sure we have people close to hand.
Fitness: good question! We're a motley crew and all of us are big (and I mean properly big!) - this has had some impact on the type of car we can use and we're all too tall for a lot of mid engine stuff due to firewalls/bulkheads etc. I rally historic cars so am used to doing 18 hours driving as fast as I can. One of the others has just ridden his motorbike from Kabul to Goodwood so I've no worries about him. Another is a bit of a track fiend and the last one likes smoking cigars and eating steak - I'll have a word with him
Looking through the regs the stuff that stands out is as follows:
1) Each driver must do a minimum of 3 test laps.
2) A driver may not drive for more than 3 hours out of a 5 hour window.
3) Fuelling only allowed after 30 mins from start and before 30 mins from end.
As you point out we'll want to do a fair bit of work on the practicalities of getting straight in the driver seat and driver change overs etc. 3 drivers are 6'2'' - 6'4'' and the other 6' so we'll need to give that some thought and practice no doubt.
Hadn't thought about drinks etc.
Also need to come up with a very simple pit board plan - obviously we're not running with car to pit comms and I expect it'll be inches deep in rain during the race so that needs some thought.
Thanks again, really useful stuff.
Ben
benjj said:
Gents, do many of you take part in endurance events?
I'm racing in the Mission Motorsport Race of Remembrance in November at Anglesey (thread in the general motorsport forum for anyone interested) and have never done one of these long races.
Can anyone give any helpful pointers?! Working on the assumption that the car (a BMW Compact Cup car) will be set up correctly by a dude who knows about these kinds of things, what else should we be doing?!
The bottom line is this:
8 hour race
1 car with 4 drivers
Pitstops must be minimum of 3 minutes
I'm starting to wonder how we best plan driver times etc. We'll have a full day of testing on Anglesey the day before but we really want to get as much squared away before then as possible.
Cheers,
Ben
Ideally you want to only change drivers as often as you need to fuel, unless the car car run longer than the maximum driver stint allowed by the series. You should check if every pitstop needs to be 3 min+ or if that only applies to stops when you fuel the car. If you each run an hour then change, then run another hour later, you'll lose an extra 12 minutes to everyone who just does 2 hour stints.I'm racing in the Mission Motorsport Race of Remembrance in November at Anglesey (thread in the general motorsport forum for anyone interested) and have never done one of these long races.
Can anyone give any helpful pointers?! Working on the assumption that the car (a BMW Compact Cup car) will be set up correctly by a dude who knows about these kinds of things, what else should we be doing?!
The bottom line is this:
8 hour race
1 car with 4 drivers
Pitstops must be minimum of 3 minutes
I'm starting to wonder how we best plan driver times etc. We'll have a full day of testing on Anglesey the day before but we really want to get as much squared away before then as possible.
Cheers,
Ben
It's endurance racing so you shouldn't be driving at 10/10ths (unless you're the last driver and you're locked in a desperate battle for a podium). It's a team sport, so every driver needs to remember to leave something in the car for the rest of the team. Two-hour stints aren't actually that bad, at our last race they left me in the car for almost three hours (new series has 4 hour driver minimums and we were getting great mileage in the rain) and it wasn't much of a problem even though I'm pretty unfit and hadn't raced in almost a year.
You should start with the slowest driver and finish with the fastest, although the other thing to consider is if everyone is the same size or if you'll be needing to move the seat during stops, in which case you should probably go from tallest-shortest (or vice versa).
Practice driver changes a few times, and know how many people are allowed over the wall and who can help do what.
The pitstops have to be a minimum of 3 minutes so yes, that needs some thinking on.
Re tyres, we've got to run a specific set but have a choice of soft or medium compound (they're a Nankang product) - early tests on an MX5 show they go on for ever! We're banking on having 12 in total - probably use half a set on practice day leaving us 2 new sets and a half for the race.
We'll need to do some benchmarking of who is quickest, we've never driven together before or even seen the car yet!
Re tyres, we've got to run a specific set but have a choice of soft or medium compound (they're a Nankang product) - early tests on an MX5 show they go on for ever! We're banking on having 12 in total - probably use half a set on practice day leaving us 2 new sets and a half for the race.
We'll need to do some benchmarking of who is quickest, we've never driven together before or even seen the car yet!
Know you fuel consumption as accurately as possible around that particular circuit, it will help you plan.
Know the rules! Plenty of people get caught out by daft errors which costs them penalty stop-go time in the pits.
Anglesey is quite an abrasive surface and therefore hard on tyres compared to most circuits. There are also a couple of heavy braking points each lap. Plan accordingly.
Maybe an idea to run less camber than you would in a sprint race to keep the stress off components.
I raced in the 360mrc 6 hour race at Snetterton a few years ago and was very slow compared to one of my team mates. He took the mickey. But, 40ish minutes into each of his two sessions he came in to the pits early to have a broken gear linkage mended whilst I drove for th e whole hour of my 2 stints and reminded him afterwards that my average speed over each hour was quicker than him! Morale of the tale? Don't beast the car.
Know the rules! Plenty of people get caught out by daft errors which costs them penalty stop-go time in the pits.
Anglesey is quite an abrasive surface and therefore hard on tyres compared to most circuits. There are also a couple of heavy braking points each lap. Plan accordingly.
Maybe an idea to run less camber than you would in a sprint race to keep the stress off components.
I raced in the 360mrc 6 hour race at Snetterton a few years ago and was very slow compared to one of my team mates. He took the mickey. But, 40ish minutes into each of his two sessions he came in to the pits early to have a broken gear linkage mended whilst I drove for th e whole hour of my 2 stints and reminded him afterwards that my average speed over each hour was quicker than him! Morale of the tale? Don't beast the car.
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 23 September 20:30
I have crewed on a few 24hrs and prepped a few cars, the races tend to be won on prep and in the pits.
Read the rules, read the ruels several times you do not want to get caught out on silly time penalties that can be avoided, ie pit lane speed (stick label on the dash with gear and rpm for pit lane) refueling requirements etc.
Make sure all the crew are familiar with the car, get a spares list and put them in labeled boxes, ie alternator and belts together with idler pulleys. We also try and make up work sheets which list the tools so we can be ready for the car when it pits. The ability to respond quickly to an issue rather than a couple of minutes head scratching makes up a lot of time up. Being a compact i would round up a spare car for spares to bring to the event. Also bed in spare pads and disks in advance.
Have you taken the inner plastic arches out, put them back in the tyre pick up gets every where also put some mesh in front of the the rad & oil cooler. we have had debris for contact infront come through the bumper and the mesh guard stopped the inter cooler getting holed, which in turn saved the turbo.
Being a compact have you upgraded any thing, medium case diff, bigger front hubs (bearings)
Also if you have drives of different sizes, we use foam seat inserts and 2 sets of lap belts at different lengths, also hang the shoulder belts of a couple of bungie cords from the roof, make's it easier to access and do up. Also basic data logging helps to get the drivers to drive the car the same way so the set up works an tires last longer. One of he cars I help out on regularly competes and against a golf with a bunch of touring car drivers they often lead for the first 2/3 until the car brakes as they always go fro it from the start. Find your 8/10th time and stick to it until you need to charge.
Get your catering sorted with a menu for a day, bacon butties in the morning and soup if it is raining works wonders.
But must of all have fun and learn for the next one.
Read the rules, read the ruels several times you do not want to get caught out on silly time penalties that can be avoided, ie pit lane speed (stick label on the dash with gear and rpm for pit lane) refueling requirements etc.
Make sure all the crew are familiar with the car, get a spares list and put them in labeled boxes, ie alternator and belts together with idler pulleys. We also try and make up work sheets which list the tools so we can be ready for the car when it pits. The ability to respond quickly to an issue rather than a couple of minutes head scratching makes up a lot of time up. Being a compact i would round up a spare car for spares to bring to the event. Also bed in spare pads and disks in advance.
Have you taken the inner plastic arches out, put them back in the tyre pick up gets every where also put some mesh in front of the the rad & oil cooler. we have had debris for contact infront come through the bumper and the mesh guard stopped the inter cooler getting holed, which in turn saved the turbo.
Being a compact have you upgraded any thing, medium case diff, bigger front hubs (bearings)
Also if you have drives of different sizes, we use foam seat inserts and 2 sets of lap belts at different lengths, also hang the shoulder belts of a couple of bungie cords from the roof, make's it easier to access and do up. Also basic data logging helps to get the drivers to drive the car the same way so the set up works an tires last longer. One of he cars I help out on regularly competes and against a golf with a bunch of touring car drivers they often lead for the first 2/3 until the car brakes as they always go fro it from the start. Find your 8/10th time and stick to it until you need to charge.
Get your catering sorted with a menu for a day, bacon butties in the morning and soup if it is raining works wonders.
But must of all have fun and learn for the next one.
Just from the driving point in most of the long distance races I've done the car with the fastest lap never wins so set a lap time you know is safe so no kerbs earlier up shifts etc and stick to it now this is not easy with 4 racing drivers all with there willy's out seeing who's biggest 
but stick to this and let all the loons fly off into the distance hoping kerbs and stressing the car out then give them a wave after a few hours when you drive by there smoking wreck on the side of the track we did a 6hr race at Brands on just 2 pits stops doing 3 two hour stints finishing on the podium against much faster and higher spec cars after the race the team looked over the car they said all it needed was new tires (done the whole 6 hours on one set) and fuel and it was good for another 6 hours
but stick to this and let all the loons fly off into the distance hoping kerbs and stressing the car out then give them a wave after a few hours when you drive by there smoking wreck on the side of the track we did a 6hr race at Brands on just 2 pits stops doing 3 two hour stints finishing on the podium against much faster and higher spec cars after the race the team looked over the car they said all it needed was new tires (done the whole 6 hours on one set) and fuel and it was good for another 6 hours Edited by Chris Sideways on Friday 24th October 09:50
Have team managed 6 24hr car races (some with e21Jason being in the same team) and he is correct. I always insist that after a driver change the next driver due in the car gets into his nomex underwear, race suit, race boots and has his balaclava, helmet, HANDS device and gloves all in one place ready to go.
Also always have 1 FULL set of tyres marked-up and pressures set at all times.
Also always have 1 FULL set of tyres marked-up and pressures set at all times.
Gents,
Thanks very much for the posts on this thread. Sorry not to reply until now, we've been a tad busy getting stuff together. Only 10 days to go now.
We've covered a fair bit of the suggestions. Stores for the garage are coming on a treat and we've recruited a superb race manager (and ex Para RSM) to run us like a bunch of know-nothing children
We took the Compact for a bit of a shakedown at Abingdon last week. It goes very well and is a superb little car. Plenty of room inside too now we've fitted the fat boy seat!
We've been advised from the previous owner that at Anglesey they plan on it drinking a litre of juice per minute on the longer GP circuit layout and it has a 53 litre tank. That gives us something to go on now to start planning the stops.
We have a full day testing on the Friday, quali on Sat morning (4 x 30 minute sessions - 1 per driver), then the race from 0800-1600 on the Sunday.
Does anyone have any advice about how best to order the drivers by ability?
It will be a rolling start, 30-35 cars, then all hell let loose!
Cheers,
Ben
Thanks very much for the posts on this thread. Sorry not to reply until now, we've been a tad busy getting stuff together. Only 10 days to go now.
We've covered a fair bit of the suggestions. Stores for the garage are coming on a treat and we've recruited a superb race manager (and ex Para RSM) to run us like a bunch of know-nothing children
We took the Compact for a bit of a shakedown at Abingdon last week. It goes very well and is a superb little car. Plenty of room inside too now we've fitted the fat boy seat!
We've been advised from the previous owner that at Anglesey they plan on it drinking a litre of juice per minute on the longer GP circuit layout and it has a 53 litre tank. That gives us something to go on now to start planning the stops.
We have a full day testing on the Friday, quali on Sat morning (4 x 30 minute sessions - 1 per driver), then the race from 0800-1600 on the Sunday.
Does anyone have any advice about how best to order the drivers by ability?
It will be a rolling start, 30-35 cars, then all hell let loose!
Cheers,
Ben
Edited by benjj on Monday 27th October 11:48
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