CSSC Modern Classics....been great
Discussion
I fully understand what you are saying woof. I have just been looking into it for next year.The costs are very high. And if you are lucky enough to win it, what happens then. Nothing i suppose, maybe do it all again the following year. Although we did enjoy mixing it with the elite in the AFF TROPHY RACE at brands. Bazz
Nothing happens, ask Alex Eacock (EMC Motorsport). This is the problem really in that anything which isn't on the TOCA or single seater ladder or a recognised national championship is effectively worthless. Thus one has to think very seriously about the sums of money being committed to their racing and why, I hate to say it but for some there is a simple snobbery in racing something like a Porsche.
jboult said:
Not in my 968 he wouldn't! Although I take the point and he would undoubtedly be far quicker than I am. Mine suits me as a novice but it's pretty road standard and far too heavy to be really competitive. Of course, this is in no way the fault of the class structure.
Getting the first season out of the way is my focus, and then as someone else in the thread suggested more coaching is my #1 priority. I'm confident there's at least a couple of easy seconds to find on most circuits we've been to this season. Once the car starts becoming the limiting factor rather than the driver then I'll look at changing it over for a fully prepped 968 or 944 (DG - what's happening with your car?!).
I realise this doesn't add anything to the class structure discussion. For what it's worth, at the upcoming Snetterton meeting my class consists of two Boxsters, Neville's Vectra and me. I'm not expecting a class win...
J
I think the biggest challenge is that the Porsche's (944's and 968's) are relatively low powered for their engine size. The M3s and the Vectra's definitely have the straight line advantage, although now I've learned to get the most out the 944 I definitely outperform most round the bends.Getting the first season out of the way is my focus, and then as someone else in the thread suggested more coaching is my #1 priority. I'm confident there's at least a couple of easy seconds to find on most circuits we've been to this season. Once the car starts becoming the limiting factor rather than the driver then I'll look at changing it over for a fully prepped 968 or 944 (DG - what's happening with your car?!).
I realise this doesn't add anything to the class structure discussion. For what it's worth, at the upcoming Snetterton meeting my class consists of two Boxsters, Neville's Vectra and me. I'm not expecting a class win...
J
One thing I've noticed is that - having been racing cars for 3.5 years now, I've got more competitive each year. We've done nothing bar the odd track day between racing, so I'm probably only on about 25-30 hours on track in total. You'll see this on my times on TSL, I've got quicker each year at each circuit (With the exception of Donington this year).
The Dunlop Porsche Cup was a great idea, but it just hasn't taken off. The frustrating thing is there's enough Porsche's within the CSCC alone to get 15-20 cars each race, but nobody seems to have any idea how to convince them to join up?
Mark Benson said:
I think the problem here for the OP is class racing.
The only way you're likely to have consistent wheel to wheel racing whatever your skill level and budget is in a single make championship where the machinery is (in theory) equivalent.
Class racing allows those of us with diverse machinery or a car that's not eligible/economical to race in a single make series a place to get on track and race, but the organisers have to put lines of demarcation somewhere and try as they might (and most do), they'll never make the playing field completely level.
It's up to the competitors to get their machinery and/or skills to a level that they can compete against others in their class, which is often expensive and usually frustrating.
A lot of class based championships have a particular car that does well and inevitably new and existing entrants will gravitate towards that car, crowding out anyone who doesn't want or can't afford to change their car - the only solution then is to develop or change your car if possible or accept it and treat your racing as a bit of fun, you might find (as I have in the past) that the class structure changes or that some small rule change allows you to modify your car to be competitive again.
The only other alternative is to accept that the championship doesn't give you what you need and move to a single-make series or one where your car will be a front runner (just don't expect it to stay that way).
I raced in the Dunlop Puma Cup this weekend at Snetterton - in with the Tin Tops.The only way you're likely to have consistent wheel to wheel racing whatever your skill level and budget is in a single make championship where the machinery is (in theory) equivalent.
Class racing allows those of us with diverse machinery or a car that's not eligible/economical to race in a single make series a place to get on track and race, but the organisers have to put lines of demarcation somewhere and try as they might (and most do), they'll never make the playing field completely level.
It's up to the competitors to get their machinery and/or skills to a level that they can compete against others in their class, which is often expensive and usually frustrating.
A lot of class based championships have a particular car that does well and inevitably new and existing entrants will gravitate towards that car, crowding out anyone who doesn't want or can't afford to change their car - the only solution then is to develop or change your car if possible or accept it and treat your racing as a bit of fun, you might find (as I have in the past) that the class structure changes or that some small rule change allows you to modify your car to be competitive again.
The only other alternative is to accept that the championship doesn't give you what you need and move to a single-make series or one where your car will be a front runner (just don't expect it to stay that way).
Certainly for the first half of the race it was as close and evenly matched as it gets:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tr1f7wo17p85y66/puma.jpg...
That said, by the time the pitstops came around, we were separated into two groups, and it was really no different to racing in the 944...
lukekarts said:
The Dunlop Porsche Cup was a great idea, but it just hasn't taken off. The frustrating thing is there's enough Porsche's within the CSCC alone to get 15-20 cars each race, but nobody seems to have any idea how to convince them to join up?
Agreed and I don't really understand it. I think CSCC has 22 registered Porsche racers for its existing series but we couldn't even persuade a couple of them to join in the Dunlop Porsche series race at Snetterton at the start of the season when we offered them a FREE race!! Add the 18 folks that actually registered for the Dunlop,series to the 22 and it should have worked well as a second race for those that wanted it. Maybe it was actually too much to consider for most.
My suggestion for next year is that the Porsche racers in FC and/ or MC compete for the existing series and class awards but also get awards for coincident Porsche only classes too. Just a thought. Maybe we would have to insist that to be eligible you must run on Dunlops in order to try to retain their support. What do you think?
Re Dunlop series. For me it didn't offer anything different. It was a 20min (25min?) race.
I could go racing in the BRSCC or PCGB and do the same thing.
I like the 40 min race format and the different cars and performances.
One thing I've noticed is that - having been racing cars for 3.5 years now, I've got more competitive each year. We've done nothing bar the odd track day between racing, so I'm probably only on about 25-30 hours on track in total. You'll see this on my times on TSL, I've got quicker each year at each circuit (With the exception of Donington this year).
The Dunlop Porsche Cup was a great idea, but it just hasn't taken off. The frustrating thing is there's enough Porsche's within the CSCC alone to get 15-20 cars each race, but nobody seems to have any idea how to convince them to join up?
I could go racing in the BRSCC or PCGB and do the same thing.
I like the 40 min race format and the different cars and performances.
lukekarts said:
jboult said:
Not in my 968 he wouldn't! Although I take the point and he would undoubtedly be far quicker than I am. Mine suits me as a novice but it's pretty road standard and far too heavy to be really competitive. Of course, this is in no way the fault of the class structure.
Getting the first season out of the way is my focus, and then as someone else in the thread suggested more coaching is my #1 priority. I'm confident there's at least a couple of easy seconds to find on most circuits we've been to this season. Once the car starts becoming the limiting factor rather than the driver then I'll look at changing it over for a fully prepped 968 or 944 (DG - what's happening with your car?!).
I realise this doesn't add anything to the class structure discussion. For what it's worth, at the upcoming Snetterton meeting my class consists of two Boxsters, Neville's Vectra and me. I'm not expecting a class win...
J
I think the biggest challenge is that the Porsche's (944's and 968's) are relatively low powered for their engine size. The M3s and the Vectra's definitely have the straight line advantage, although now I've learned to get the most out the 944 I definitely outperform most round the bends.Getting the first season out of the way is my focus, and then as someone else in the thread suggested more coaching is my #1 priority. I'm confident there's at least a couple of easy seconds to find on most circuits we've been to this season. Once the car starts becoming the limiting factor rather than the driver then I'll look at changing it over for a fully prepped 968 or 944 (DG - what's happening with your car?!).
I realise this doesn't add anything to the class structure discussion. For what it's worth, at the upcoming Snetterton meeting my class consists of two Boxsters, Neville's Vectra and me. I'm not expecting a class win...
J
One thing I've noticed is that - having been racing cars for 3.5 years now, I've got more competitive each year. We've done nothing bar the odd track day between racing, so I'm probably only on about 25-30 hours on track in total. You'll see this on my times on TSL, I've got quicker each year at each circuit (With the exception of Donington this year).
The Dunlop Porsche Cup was a great idea, but it just hasn't taken off. The frustrating thing is there's enough Porsche's within the CSCC alone to get 15-20 cars each race, but nobody seems to have any idea how to convince them to join up?
andy97 said:
Agreed and I don't really understand it. I think CSCC has 22 registered Porsche racers for its existing series but we couldn't even persuade a couple of them to join in the Dunlop Porsche series race at Snetterton at the start of the season when we offered them a FREE race!!
Maybe they simply didn't want to race against a bunch of other Porsches?In the absence of a rolling road and tests at every meeting, it's an easier way to differentiate.
Also, power measurement can be easily circumvented with modern ECUs by having several different maps. Admittedly our 2ltr Zetec could pass for an 1800 (especially when I'm driving) so no way of classification is immune to cheating, but it's been the 'traditional' way for years so most technical scruts will be happier with it.
Also, power measurement can be easily circumvented with modern ECUs by having several different maps. Admittedly our 2ltr Zetec could pass for an 1800 (especially when I'm driving) so no way of classification is immune to cheating, but it's been the 'traditional' way for years so most technical scruts will be happier with it.
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