Early apexing - need a slap!
Discussion
Gents,
Looking for some tips or ideas please.
I'm now a licenced racer thanks to cracking the ARDS last week at Silverstone. I'm competing in my first race in a couple of weeks at Anglesey (an 8 hour endurance race) and am in the process of getting my head together.
My instructor at Silverstone was suberb (Colin who came down from the North East) and gave me some excellent feedback and pointers.
In the main I was ok and he was happy. My hobby is historic rally driving so I have no real problem with understanding how to balance the car and what is going on in general.
However, one thing I consistently get wrong is turning in too early.
With historic rallying this is always the way to do it, giving you time to manage the inevitable oversteer (
) but with racing - not so much!
Colin suggested I think about turning in 'around the back' of the corner - hitting the apex but at the right angle to get the steering lock off asap and pin the loud pedal.
Has anyone else got any tips on how best to get this into my thick skull?
Cheers,
Ben
Looking for some tips or ideas please.
I'm now a licenced racer thanks to cracking the ARDS last week at Silverstone. I'm competing in my first race in a couple of weeks at Anglesey (an 8 hour endurance race) and am in the process of getting my head together.
My instructor at Silverstone was suberb (Colin who came down from the North East) and gave me some excellent feedback and pointers.
In the main I was ok and he was happy. My hobby is historic rally driving so I have no real problem with understanding how to balance the car and what is going on in general.
However, one thing I consistently get wrong is turning in too early.
With historic rallying this is always the way to do it, giving you time to manage the inevitable oversteer (
) but with racing - not so much!Colin suggested I think about turning in 'around the back' of the corner - hitting the apex but at the right angle to get the steering lock off asap and pin the loud pedal.
Has anyone else got any tips on how best to get this into my thick skull?
Cheers,
Ben
Sorry.
Seriously - I think it's just bum-in-seat time.
At Rockingham I couldn't get my brain to turn in late to turn 2 (the left-hand double apex hairpin). I kept hitting the first apex, and lost out to people because of it. Every time I'd approach the corner I'd tell myself 'keep right and brake late' yet my stupid arms still drove the car to the first apex.
Knowing how to do something, and actually executing are two very different things, which only practice can help with!
Seriously - I think it's just bum-in-seat time.
At Rockingham I couldn't get my brain to turn in late to turn 2 (the left-hand double apex hairpin). I kept hitting the first apex, and lost out to people because of it. Every time I'd approach the corner I'd tell myself 'keep right and brake late' yet my stupid arms still drove the car to the first apex.
Knowing how to do something, and actually executing are two very different things, which only practice can help with!
I recommend thinking about Colin's "round the back " approach. With an early turn in you're "pinching" the corner and not giving yourself time to rotate the car. I think you'll be used to achieving that in rallying by chucking it and catching the oversteer or some other black magic. Aiming round the back of the clipping point means you are trying to rotate the car from a wider approach line such that as you reach the clipping point you can be on the power for acceleration up the next straight.
Slow in fast out is better than fast in, scrabble about and slow out.
Slow in fast out is better than fast in, scrabble about and slow out.
Colin's (Colin Elstrop?!) point is seen in many club races, where the drivers' skill and experience reduces the further down the grid you go. Watch them come through the first or second corner, where they are all bunched up still, and you will see the apex point move earlier and earlier as the field goes through.
JOhn
JOhn
OP with regards to the rallying its the same watching some of the historic cars or vid clips from years ago in that cars which are looser in handling will tend towards being driven that way a touch. I think for any modern car and circuit racing this is something which every rookie has to go through, its not just turning in later its also having the confidence to turn in later and carry much more speed in that early part of the corner. I found the same with some 1-1 tuition and data logging in my car, the guy was taking 1.5 seconds a lap out of me yet our apex speeds and max speeds on the straights were pretty much identical, that was some eye opener to see such a small change in approach make so much time.
Yes to Colin Elstrop. He races this Granny so we had a lot to talk about.
That's kind of the point re rally cars vs racing cars - it sounds like I'm just going to have to re-learn how I do things. Am very much enjoying learning a new skill, it's been years since I've done something outside my comfort zone.
Don't think I'll ever me a Hakkinen but it's fun trying
That's kind of the point re rally cars vs racing cars - it sounds like I'm just going to have to re-learn how I do things. Am very much enjoying learning a new skill, it's been years since I've done something outside my comfort zone.
Don't think I'll ever me a Hakkinen but it's fun trying
Hi Ben,
I know exactly where you are.
I did the Rally Yorkshire in an Escort and Oulton Park in the MR2 a week later and I do exactly what you are describing.
The way I taught myself how to not throw it in before the apex and steer with the loud pedal which works in an Escort in the forest but not an MR2 on a track, was by driving relatively slowly on the road. Pick a road with loads of obstacles like bends or roundabouts and go drive down it. At each obstacle you have one go at steering. Pick your turn in point and apex and apply some steering and keep the same lock throughout the corner. If you have to apply any correctional steering through the obstacle you have failed. I'm not saying this is the way to drive on track (although I do think it helps). It's a way of getting your brain to think of a different turn points and late apexes. You're allowed to wind lock off on the exit but not apply more lock without getting a fail. I tend to stick to my side of the road as well using the white line as the track limit. There's usually enough width to allow you to pick and choose lines but if not you can use all the road if it's safe and legal to do so. You can practice this at standard speeds and the cars around you and even your passengers will not know you're doing it apart from you cursing under your breath when you get a fail.
Give it a go and let me know how you get on.
I know exactly where you are.
I did the Rally Yorkshire in an Escort and Oulton Park in the MR2 a week later and I do exactly what you are describing.
The way I taught myself how to not throw it in before the apex and steer with the loud pedal which works in an Escort in the forest but not an MR2 on a track, was by driving relatively slowly on the road. Pick a road with loads of obstacles like bends or roundabouts and go drive down it. At each obstacle you have one go at steering. Pick your turn in point and apex and apply some steering and keep the same lock throughout the corner. If you have to apply any correctional steering through the obstacle you have failed. I'm not saying this is the way to drive on track (although I do think it helps). It's a way of getting your brain to think of a different turn points and late apexes. You're allowed to wind lock off on the exit but not apply more lock without getting a fail. I tend to stick to my side of the road as well using the white line as the track limit. There's usually enough width to allow you to pick and choose lines but if not you can use all the road if it's safe and legal to do so. You can practice this at standard speeds and the cars around you and even your passengers will not know you're doing it apart from you cursing under your breath when you get a fail.
Give it a go and let me know how you get on.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101525...
Thought I'd try and share this with you. Ran out of road or talent at Oulton
Thought I'd try and share this with you. Ran out of road or talent at Oulton
Greensleeves said:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101525...
Thought I'd try and share this with you. Ran out of road or talent at Oulton
I've had the exact same spin at that point in an MR2 in practice but it was torrential rain ( that's my excuse, nothing to do with my crap driving!)Thought I'd try and share this with you. Ran out of road or talent at Oulton
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