HANS to be mandatory from 2016
Discussion
andylaurence said:
Your road car has airbags and seatbelt pre-tensioners. If it's been in a crash big enough to stretch the belts, those have fired and the belts will most likely have been replaced. It's also got a pretty good chance of being written off. If your race car has been crashed, have your stretched belts been replaced? What about when those belts get sold on eBay and the next guy buys them without knowing they've already been in an accident? 10 years down the line, that might have happened several times. Would you trust your life with a pre-crashed belt? The MSA wouldn't and they're mitigating the risk by lifing components. There's only so many times a set of belts can be crashed in a specified period.
No I would trust my life with my "own" judgement. I know the provenance of the seat belts in my car and I wouldn't buy secondhand.. the point I am making is why 5 years? why not every year? why not 10 years. I know when they will require replacing.a damaged and stretched belt is easy enough to identify at scrutineering.. Why is the A/FR helmet deemed good this year but A/FR suddenly no good at the end of 2016?? Has something been found lacking all of a sudden or is it also a ploy to get everyone spending money un-neccisarily every so often..by ensuring we move to a lifed helmet.
Others may be able to have there race prep specialist prepare the car and write the cheques whenever required but last time I looked at many clubmans paddocks there were a lot of slightly overweight middle aged men enjoying a hobby in between buying everything else family life demands!
I am not saying Do not apply common sense.. but lifing for the sake of lifing is not required.
Obviously the cost of replacement safety kit is pretty insignificant if you are crashing as often as you are alluding to
N.
woof said:
When the front wishbone failed going into Paddock Hill I was expecting to be heading the hospital. Bit of luck and skill managed to get most of the speed off before clipping the barrier at around 40mph but I still felt that the next day in my body but my neck was fine
http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
My neck was fine after this, but I did have bruised shoulders. Frame by frame analysis of the impact shows that my helmet nearly hit the dashboard. Overall I'd have to agree that HANS is a good idea.http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgMP6LWEtk
Mobsy said:
woof said:
When the front wishbone failed going into Paddock Hill I was expecting to be heading the hospital. Bit of luck and skill managed to get most of the speed off before clipping the barrier at around 40mph but I still felt that the next day in my body but my neck was fine
http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
My neck was fine after this, but I did have bruised shoulders. Frame by frame analysis of the impact shows that my helmet nearly hit the dashboard. Overall I'd have to agree that HANS is a good idea.http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgMP6LWEtk
Dan Friel said:
Mobsy said:
woof said:
When the front wishbone failed going into Paddock Hill I was expecting to be heading the hospital. Bit of luck and skill managed to get most of the speed off before clipping the barrier at around 40mph but I still felt that the next day in my body but my neck was fine
http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
My neck was fine after this, but I did have bruised shoulders. Frame by frame analysis of the impact shows that my helmet nearly hit the dashboard. Overall I'd have to agree that HANS is a good idea.http://youtu.be/a2DCWRqoZUk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btgMP6LWEtk
Dollyman1850 said:
No I would trust my life with my "own" judgement. I know the provenance of the seat belts in my car and I wouldn't buy secondhand.. the point I am making is why 5 years? why not every year? why not 10 years. I know when they will require replacing.
a damaged and stretched belt is easy enough to identify at scrutineering.. Why is the A/FR helmet deemed good this year but A/FR suddenly no good at the end of 2016?? Has something been found lacking all of a sudden or is it also a ploy to get everyone spending money un-neccisarily every so often..by ensuring we move to a lifed helmet.
Others may be able to have there race prep specialist prepare the car and write the cheques whenever required but last time I looked at many clubmans paddocks there were a lot of slightly overweight middle aged men enjoying a hobby in between buying everything else family life demands!
I am not saying Do not apply common sense.. but lifing for the sake of lifing is not required.
Obviously the cost of replacement safety kit is pretty insignificant if you are crashing as often as you are alluding to
N.
Presumably after about five years exposure to the elements and UV light (not to mention a medley of hydrocarbons and solvents) the belts may have begun to degrade to the point where sanctioning bodies find their performance unacceptable. a damaged and stretched belt is easy enough to identify at scrutineering.. Why is the A/FR helmet deemed good this year but A/FR suddenly no good at the end of 2016?? Has something been found lacking all of a sudden or is it also a ploy to get everyone spending money un-neccisarily every so often..by ensuring we move to a lifed helmet.
Others may be able to have there race prep specialist prepare the car and write the cheques whenever required but last time I looked at many clubmans paddocks there were a lot of slightly overweight middle aged men enjoying a hobby in between buying everything else family life demands!
I am not saying Do not apply common sense.. but lifing for the sake of lifing is not required.
Obviously the cost of replacement safety kit is pretty insignificant if you are crashing as often as you are alluding to
N.
Dr JonboyG said:
Presumably after about five years exposure to the elements and UV light (not to mention a medley of hydrocarbons and solvents) the belts may have begun to degrade to the point where sanctioning bodies find their performance unacceptable.
I don't know anything about how harnesses degrade with time and impacts. Anyone here actually know anything about it?I just make the happy assumption that the people making the rules do have access to technical info and have a rationale for the lifing scheme. I'm pretty sure though that they are not just a bunch of fat cats looking for an easy life and big pay cheques.
Regarding the changes of standards, that's just the perennial dilemma. When new standards come out they are there for a reason - probably increased safety. There is always understandable inertia on uptake. So if I were in charge I'd end-of-life the old standards too. There isn't going to be safe versus unsafe. There's going to be more safe and less safe.
I hate finding out that you are not as safe as you thought you were the hard way. I broke bones at Brands and had two whacking great hans bruises on my chest, but my neck was fine. I found out the hard way that my seating arrangement was wrong. So, back to my happy assumption, I am glad people are interested in my safety.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5VE1-dFL98
Bert
Military aircraft are fitted with very similar safety belts. They are not lifed. They are subject to an inspection and servicing regime but you would not replace them just because they were 5 years old. You would replace them if they were contaminated or frayed etc, no matter what the age.
Aren't you supposed to replace belts after an accident ?
For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
Edited by woof on Friday 5th December 10:18
Dollyman1850 said:
No I would trust my life with my "own" judgement.
That's great, but the MSA don't trust your judgement. Some people would happily race with no safety gear at all. Not even a helmet. The MSA set rules to try and mitigate the risk of people with a less risk-averse attitude. The lifing period is based on statistics. The older a belt is, the more likely it is that it has been in a significant crash. They've decided on the level of risk they deem acceptable.woof said:
Aren't you supposed to replace belts after an accident ?
For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
Perhaps it's one for a separate thread "Race car build horror stories' but we bought a car which had the seat bolted in position through wooden blocks to get the height position and also had 20kg of lead ballast in the passenger footwell with a large fake bolt head glued on top, giving the appearance of being secured better than it was.For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
Big thumbs up for mandatory HANS, it certainly saved me from serious injury in a head on impact. I replaced the HANS tether afterwards (£50) and the seat harness'.
woof said:
Aren't you supposed to replace belts after an accident ?
For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
you will find that when ever you change team or preparer they will always find things wrong with the way the car was previously prepared or run. its because everybody likes to do stuff differently and it makes the new team look good by making the others look bad. For me, safety is the single most important element of my racing.
The Porsche Boxster that I have was run by a team for a few years and then I moved to another team. The new team gave the car a full inspection and soon spotted the seat wasn't welded correctly to the floor! One big accident and .. well who knows. New belts fitted as well.
Edited by woof on Friday 5th December 10:18
btw, I'm not saying your seat was welded correctly, I'm saying they would have found something wrong with it.
Lets get this straight guys, apart from the seat belts being lifed for UK circuit racing (as blue book refers to current FIA homologation) what else is actually lifed? The other stuff only seems to be a problem if competing overseas, helmets are only going out due to some old test standards no longer being deemed sufficient.
I think he means FIA events so quite a bit different in class to our stuff. The rally car section in the blue book seams to say that for rallying the seats are lifed as it refers to current FIA homologation for seats at R48.10.6. I couldn't find a similar statement in the circuit racing section or K.
Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff