Arrive and Drive what can I charge.

Arrive and Drive what can I charge.

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Discussion

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
OK not UK but a club sport question.
I now have one race car to many now my daughter has left for Uni. A nice Locust 7 that ran a 1330 cross flow for the daughter, but currently it is having a 4 Age fitted, with a 5 speed, LSD, disks all round, new R500 style seat etc. So it will be a nice car and will be capable of podiums in class. Plan is to have it as a spare car for myself, in case of a problem, but to offer it as a hire car, as it is not worth selling.

Car is at Sepang Malaysia and will be fully supported for the race weekend, Practice, Quali, and two ten laps races.

So assuming fuel and entry fee at cost what could I charge for the car. The car will run 15 inch semi slicks, and I can buy a set of 4 for say 300 pounds. These will suit most conditions, but full wets will e on hand if needed. Tyres are available at the circuit as required so I was thinking of offering a price with used tyres and then say 200 pounds extra for new tyres.

How do people deal with damage? It is very difficult to actually damage a car as run offs arer so big, worst we've ever had is damaged wings and wishbones, as an example I can get rear wings for 50 pounds.

majordad

3,600 posts

196 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
How about your costs plus a margin, say 25%?

Re accidents, driver pays first X amount and you foot the rest of the bill, and factor this into your costs.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
That's my problem what the cost? I built the car 10 years ago, It is next to worthless here. It will cost me 2000 pounds to ugrade it, say the engine last two years, but what will be the % take up? Do I have a diffrent rate for a rece than a track day, how to charge for practice?
Thats why I was tryoing to get an idea of a market rate. My thoughts were 800 pound a weekend fully supported with new tyres, does that sound realistic? Plus entry and fuel that would mean a weekend would be around 1100 pounds.

Pit Pony

8,265 posts

120 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
You confuse price with cost.

Market price is the money that the punter is prepared to pay for a product or service in an open market, where he is free to choose supplier, and product, and there is nothing to stop competition.

What are you competing against in the "market" ?

Who are your customers? Why would they buy your service ?

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
IIRC we charge about 400 per day to support the car, and on a mg sebring sprite 400-500 per day for the car plus entry fees tyres and fuel, any damage to the car and the driver pays the full amount..

Truckosaurus

11,183 posts

283 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
Berw said:
... I can buy a set of 4 for say 300 pounds. ... and then say 200 pounds extra for new tyres
I'm no Alan Sugars but I can see a flaw in that plan.

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
Truckosaurus said:
Berw said:
... I can buy a set of 4 for say 300 pounds. ... and then say 200 pounds extra for new tyres
I'm no Alan Sugars but I can see a flaw in that plan.
with that logic i think I'll buy all my tyres through him :-)

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
quotequote all
when looking at the charges to run a car dont forget that to do it properly and look after the client your going to need a crew of atleast 2 or 3 including yourself so you need to cover wages/food/transport/accom for the crew


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Friday 19th December 2014
quotequote all
Graham, thanks for the numbers, and the advice, it looks worth a punt. I am looking at a series I already compete in so some of the cost are covered, e.g. we have an engineer, to oversee work, a team manager to do scrutineering etc. already paid for, so I just need a couple of mechanics, and remember I am not paying European wages.
I also have all the pit facilities like coffee, cold drinks, tools, equipment etc covered in my expenditure to run my car.
Now ignoring all comments teaching me to ‘suck eggs’, 800 pounds for the weekend suits me, and looks Ok in the market. I could make a very positive cash flow and recover my investment over 2 years, assuming 50% utilization just at races, track days extra.
Tyre wise 800 pounds would get you ‘what’s on the car’, Then new tyres for 200 pounds extra if wanted, so I’d end up with a set of tyres with 20 laps on them I could use again if the next hire wanted ‘as is’, I could also get more than 100 pound for them used after 20 laps.
But how do you ensure you get the money for damage, I don’t see it as being feasible to as for the full cost of the car as a deposit?


Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Friday 19th December 2014
quotequote all
Berw said:
But how do you ensure you get the money for damage, I don’t see it as being feasible to as for the full cost of the car as a deposit?
That is always the interesting bit... you can get written agreements, but there is always a cost to getting and enforcing.

some people insist on insurance and do that as part of the hire, although that doesnt cover mechanical damage i.e. engine blow up

some people just take a deposit to cover a certain amount, and trust for the rest.

with one car that was being rented for a year, we did take a deposit for the full value of the car and held it for the year..

sometime you just have to do it on trust. I did have one lad crash a car of mine with thousands in damage and he paid up every penny even though he couldnt really afford to... bizzarly it does tend to be the people with money who dont pay up !!!


At the end of the day its a business risk, it is very easy to get burnt, and I know a few people who will only run customer owned cars not hire their own.

its also worth having some form of data logging even if its just rpm and also never hire a car out without video in the car !

G

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 20th December 2014
quotequote all
The video sounds good and a rev limiter, as I say its very hard do much damage as the run offs are huge, so I think a 1500pound deposit would dot it, that would cover most body damage, or a replacement engine. As I say not UK money I plan to run a 4age I can get these ex Japan for 500.
So I've made the decision and ordered a 4age engine box and axial, should be a nice car, LSD 4 wheel disks, car will be running be end January. Thanks for the help.

will_968

2,138 posts

263 months

Wednesday 7th January 2015
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I'll be your first customer. Sign me up. I can be your guinea pig and whilst I'm happy with your proposed pricing structure, I'm also happy to have a little flexibility so we make sure things work ok for you (don't want you losing out). I've rented out my car before, so know the concerns and have worked the ins and outs of it before.

I think we exchanged emails a year or two ago. I'll try and dig one out and will drop you a note.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 7th January 2015
quotequote all
Hi Will, I got your email and will reply, but just in case any one else is interested, we are now sorting the car, Locost 7, will run a 4age, 5 speed, Lsd, Disks all round, plumbed in fire, full cage, for Class 3 of Asia Classic Car Challange, at Sepang, price as I said is OK, great if you take it first race,
Thanks to Graham for his help,

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Monday 27th April 2015
quotequote all
OK a thank you to Graham for his advice, got the car built and hired out to Will 968 over the weekend, run practice quali and full race distance in two races, all went well and have afew people lined up for the next event, although Will has first refusal.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 2nd September 2015
quotequote all
I thought I'd post an update on this, so people (especially Graham) can see there advice is appreciated and acted on.
As I said in last post we took the old Locost and put a Toyota 1600 twin cam in together with a 5 speed box, Toyota rear axil with LSD rear disks, new seat, Harness, 15 inch wheels with slicks and wets, and had it ready for the first race weekend in April, Driven by Will, it finished every session.
Since then Will has hired it for both the subsequent race weekends and again it finished every session, and last weekend came third in class in a race, (OK it was a weekend of a lot of breakdowns, but to win you got to finish).
I have got access to ex formula car slicks which are in good order for around 200 pounds a set, and these are proving OK.
Charging around 1000 pounds a weekend plus tyres and entry fees for the car, fully supported (last weekend head gasket went on last race 18.30 Saturday, car made the grid for 9am Sunday, so support is good). Laping Sepang in around 2.45 which is not disgraceful and is only 1.5 seconds of what new Caterhams duratec's with full Caterham work support are doing (they run in same race but different class).
The Toyota running gear is a great package for the Locost looks good and is super reliable.

IanUAE

2,927 posts

163 months

Thursday 3rd September 2015
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Good to see you are still racing Will. We miss you and your BMW in the sandpit (what we call the local region).

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Tuesday 8th September 2015
quotequote all
Great to see its working for you, Im almost tempted to pop on a plane and have a go my self, although presumably the licence hoops would be too difficult to overcome ( i have a uk national A)

I was at Sepang in 2001 to watch the TVR Chimaera win the 12h endurance race.... and fancied a go round the circuit lol


G