Recaro Pole Position and SPG Homologation withdrawn

[majordad]

Many of our cars have these, I only replaced mine 18mths ago.I wonder have we any comeback ?

https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas...

[NJH]

The crazy thing is Recaro is such a big and serious outfit its still likely a better quality item than many that have homologation. What I mean by this is if one takes a very thorough and rigorous approach to qualification testing (which is expensive) the likelihood of uncovering issues either from testing or inconsistencies in the design/manufacturing audit trail is much higher. To any non-engineers that sounds crazy but its always been the reality, do a higher quality job in terms of management, processess and compliance and your always more likely to uncover failures that would otherwise go unnoticed. Still though for those who have these seats and want to race in FIA sanctioned events your'e somewhat stuffed until Recaro can come up with a solution and get homologation again.

[markbates]

FIA have specific tests and these have pass requirements, they then take a random one which they normally buy from a shop and test it. It then clearly didn't meet the requirements of the homologation. As an 'engineer type' a method of manufacture if followed which is robust will always give the same results, the only time this will change is if corners are cut or processes not followed. I would suggest you contact the manufacturer and get them to sort it out, you purchased a seat as it was compliant to the specific requirement if they cant guarantee it I would suggest you have a reason to get it changed.

[indigorallye]

Recaro carried out the test, not the FIA.
When Recaro saw the issue they reported it, voluntarily, to the FIA who then withdrew homologation.
(........not that it really matters who did what and when)

[Trev450]

OP - you may have a problem looking for recourse given that you purchased the seats over a year ago which I would guess is the standard 'guarantee' period. That said, you bought them for a specific purpose and they are now no longer fit for for that purpose. Certainly worth contacting them and putting your situation to them. I can't see that you will be alone in this.

Edited by Trev450 on Friday 19th December 09:19

[markbates]

indigorallye said:

Recaro carried out the test, not the FIA.
When Recaro saw the issue they reported it, voluntarily, to the FIA who then withdrew homologation.
(........not that it really matters who did what and when)

That is certainly interesting, good to see they were honest enough to come forward and present it to the FIA.
Isnt a seat valid for 5 years? (I cant remember what the FIA give as a date), if it is within that 5 years I would expect you have a reasonable reason to go back to recaro. If your outside the 5 years then I don't see you have any form of claim as it has lived its life (in the eyes of the FIA) already.

[BertBert]

majordad said:

Many of our cars have these, I only replaced mine 18mths ago.I wonder have we any comeback ?

https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas...

Race or Road?

[majordad]

Mine is a Race seat, the FIA date of expiry is June 2018. GRP seats are valid for 5yrs and carbon ones 10yrs but these latter cost much much more.

[andy97]

Perhaps Recaro can be persuaded to offer a significant "trade in" deal on a new seat. After all, they have sold something that has subsequently been found not to be fit for purpose.

[steeviegeebies]

I thought for a safety recall the manufacturer is obliged to replace the product with one that is fit for purpose at their own expense. This is certainly the law in the industry in which I work. Otherwise they face significant product liability. e.g. I bought a 2nd hand Cervelo bike frame for £850 - it was about 3yrs old. These frames were later recalled by Cervelo for safety reasons (carbon bond fractures). They replaced mine with a brand new frame worth over £2,500 and paid one of their dealers (Sigma Sport) to strip and rebuild the entire bike. Similarly, Recaro should be responsible for free replacement and cost of fitting for any seat in date per FIA/MSA regs. Then again, I'm not a lawyer so it'd be interesting to have legal opinion on this, or better still that of an auto industry regulator.
Also does this safety issue affect the Recaro SPG seats fitted to the 968CS and 993RS (I think)?

[Trev450]

Its not actually a recall though. Recaro have reported to the FIA that they consider these seats to be not of the required standard for FIA motor sport events. The FIA in response have withdrawn their approval. This only effects the use of these seats in FIA events, and has no impact on their use in road going cars.

[steeviegeebies]

If they don't meet the FIA standard because they can break in a crash then surely that's a safety recall situation. If they fail to recall and someone dies in a crash then Recaro will have a much bigger issue on its hands than a recall. A regulator could best advise.

[NJH]

They say "RECARO Automotive Seating asks end customers precautionary to refrain from using the seats." I am no lawyer but if a product manufacturer instructs end users not to do something and they go and do it anyway then your on your own.

Later on they say
"The RECARO seats RECARO Pole Position (ABE) and RECARO Pole Position Carbon (ABE), both certified for use on public roads, are not affected by the issue. Their certification for use on public roads continues without limitations."

Isn't this another case like the unique Schroth belts with the push button in that people tend to fit motorsport items which have never been certified for use on European public roads but they get away with it anyway because MoT tests don't pick up on it and specialist insurers are either ignorant of these issues or turn a blind eye to it.

From this page on Recaro's website in the FAQ section at the bottom of the page:
https://www.recaro-automotive.com/en/product-areas...

"Q: Can RECARO racing seats with FIA homologation be used in road traffic?

No, RECARO racing seats with FIA homologation do not have a General Type Approval (ABE) and therefore cannot be used in road traffic. However, RECARO offers the racing seat Pole Position ABE, which is licensed for road use."

[BertBert]

doesn't their note on the website say that it's not a problem for road use - implying that whatever happens in the racing world (they must replace them surely?) won't happen in the road use world?
Bert

[NJH]

Different seat Bert. The Pole Position ABE is in the aftermarket section of the their website. Looks swanky in black leather and suede but its really a seat for the track day market I guess.

[steeviegeebies]

NJH said:

They say "RECARO Automotive Seating asks end customers precautionary to refrain from using the seats." I am no lawyer but if a product manufacturer instructs end users not to do something and they go and do it anyway then your on your own.

I don't think Recaro can simply say stop using something if it is a matter of safety and compliance, or blame the user if something then goes wrong. If I owned PP's in my race car I'd demand replacement from Recaro because they are unsafe and non-compliant. They were bought in good faith with the manufacturer's certification marked on the product, which tuned out to be incorrectly applied. Why should this situation be any different from an unsafe medical product being recalled? Lives are at risk, otherwise the standards would not exist.

[NJH]

No I agree, its pretty rubbish way to treat their customers and not at all in keeping with what one would expect. They may however come up with a workaround before next season who knows but one would expect them to move this forward one way or the other pretty quickly, its done enough damage to their reputation already without leaving many people high and dry next season.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Has anyone tried ringing the phone number attached to the article for recaro?

[BertBert]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Has anyone tried ringing the phone number attached to the article for recaro?

I'm not quite sure why there is so much angst about the company. They have said the seats aren't safe they are working on a quick resolution and to call them. Not sure what else they should be doing at this stage?
Bert

[majordad]

Just to update you : I bought my seat from Demon Tweeks less than 3 years ago and despite various phonecalls there am getting the run a round. Also I'm onto the Recaro help line but their answer is we're looking into it.