Brands Hatch guide
Discussion
I've been doing a few speed events over the past 3 years and am finally in a more competitive car. I'm a bit of a BMW fan and have worked my way up to an E30 M3, via E21 (16v 1800 conversion) and E30 325i. Both cars were dedicated track cars, although remained road legal. The M3 has modified suspension, big brakes etc and as with my previous cars, runs on Toyo r888 tyres.
Whilst I don't believe myself to be a great driver, I would like to think I am pretty competent. My average lap time for Brands (Indy) is a 59.8, with a personal best of 59.2 seconds. I know this isn't a blistering pace, but I am quite a lump and the 325i only had about 174bhp. I did try and follow a front runner in the BMW Production Championship, when I did a test day last winter, but he was much quicker than I. What it did highlight though, was how much time I was losing through Paddock Hill bend.
I did also do a few laps with an instructor, which is something I intend doing again. Meanwhile though, can anyone offer some advice on putting together a quick lap? I am also wondering about set-up and how soft/stiff a suspension set-up I should opt for?
I have also been struggling with my braking technique and instead of immediately braking as hard as possible, I find myself braking and increasing pressure, to the point where I come off the pedal, as opposed to getting maximum braking force from the moment I hit the pedal. (I hope that makes sense?)
Can anyone suggest an instructor?
Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Started with the E21. It had a 16v 1800 with about 150bhp.
This is my current car.
Whilst I don't believe myself to be a great driver, I would like to think I am pretty competent. My average lap time for Brands (Indy) is a 59.8, with a personal best of 59.2 seconds. I know this isn't a blistering pace, but I am quite a lump and the 325i only had about 174bhp. I did try and follow a front runner in the BMW Production Championship, when I did a test day last winter, but he was much quicker than I. What it did highlight though, was how much time I was losing through Paddock Hill bend.
I did also do a few laps with an instructor, which is something I intend doing again. Meanwhile though, can anyone offer some advice on putting together a quick lap? I am also wondering about set-up and how soft/stiff a suspension set-up I should opt for?
I have also been struggling with my braking technique and instead of immediately braking as hard as possible, I find myself braking and increasing pressure, to the point where I come off the pedal, as opposed to getting maximum braking force from the moment I hit the pedal. (I hope that makes sense?)
Can anyone suggest an instructor?
Any help and advice would be appreciated.
Started with the E21. It had a 16v 1800 with about 150bhp.
This is my current car.
It looks like you have already worked out the main area to gain time (paddock) don't treat the corner as a corner to get around quickly. The key to a quick lap is how quickly you come out the other side. Depending on car you need to work out your breaking point around the bump. Either before or just after depending on grip and speed. You then want to leave your turn in late(exit road to your right is a decent marker) and then accelerate through the corner. By the time you apex you want to be on the power. Let the car drift to the exit curb.
Druids is not where you can gain or loose too much. I like to brake late and hold a small amount of brake pressure through the initial turn in. I find apexing at the centre of the corner works well. It's amazing how wide the exit is and how much grip you actually have.
Graham hill...... Horrible corner! Always seems slower than it should. Make sure you use all the track on the entry, I find hitting the apex curb helps to keep the front in. Don't try to accelerate to early, getting sideways on the exit really damages your run to surtees. You can carry a lot of mid corner speed and that's where time will be made.
Surtees! Awesome corner! Flat for me so I can't help much. However I would say that a really late turn in is the key, turn in late to make the rest of the corner straight to the breaking area for clear ways, using a bit of exit curb on the inside of you need to and the car is stable enough. In other cars I have found a good amount of throttle mid corner seems to nicely settle the car.
Clearways is so easy to get wrong, I always find its hard to gain time but very easy to loose it! There are about 4 lines that end up being just as quick. I find that surtees can determine what line to take. If you carry a lot of speed through there then I like to brake towards the outside of the corner and then turn in hard to the apex with some trail breaking to aid turn in, then balanced throttle until the track starts to fall away. At this point you should be able to get on the power and allow the car to drift to the outside.
I have covered thousands of laps of the place! Mastering each corner one at a time is not the hardest..... Putting them all together into a lap is the key.
I've helped a lot of track day drivers round there over the last few years. I'm no instructor but would more than happily come down there on a track/test day and help out.
Quite a few in car vids on my YouTube channel cerberav8racing.
Mike
Druids is not where you can gain or loose too much. I like to brake late and hold a small amount of brake pressure through the initial turn in. I find apexing at the centre of the corner works well. It's amazing how wide the exit is and how much grip you actually have.
Graham hill...... Horrible corner! Always seems slower than it should. Make sure you use all the track on the entry, I find hitting the apex curb helps to keep the front in. Don't try to accelerate to early, getting sideways on the exit really damages your run to surtees. You can carry a lot of mid corner speed and that's where time will be made.
Surtees! Awesome corner! Flat for me so I can't help much. However I would say that a really late turn in is the key, turn in late to make the rest of the corner straight to the breaking area for clear ways, using a bit of exit curb on the inside of you need to and the car is stable enough. In other cars I have found a good amount of throttle mid corner seems to nicely settle the car.
Clearways is so easy to get wrong, I always find its hard to gain time but very easy to loose it! There are about 4 lines that end up being just as quick. I find that surtees can determine what line to take. If you carry a lot of speed through there then I like to brake towards the outside of the corner and then turn in hard to the apex with some trail breaking to aid turn in, then balanced throttle until the track starts to fall away. At this point you should be able to get on the power and allow the car to drift to the outside.
I have covered thousands of laps of the place! Mastering each corner one at a time is not the hardest..... Putting them all together into a lap is the key.
I've helped a lot of track day drivers round there over the last few years. I'm no instructor but would more than happily come down there on a track/test day and help out.
Quite a few in car vids on my YouTube channel cerberav8racing.
Mike
mark listen to mike, he is a good peddler around brands, I know !
Your drive off clearways makes a hug difference to your lap time as well as what mike say about paddock, but also it takes a long time to go around a slow corner so keeping a good constant speed up around druids is important. But really bravery in braking which will come with confidence is where you will make up 'free' time without spending or changing your car, in my fiesta I can just jump on the brakes, in the falcon I have to press a bit then increase the pressure once I feel the weight onto the nose of the car
Your drive off clearways makes a hug difference to your lap time as well as what mike say about paddock, but also it takes a long time to go around a slow corner so keeping a good constant speed up around druids is important. But really bravery in braking which will come with confidence is where you will make up 'free' time without spending or changing your car, in my fiesta I can just jump on the brakes, in the falcon I have to press a bit then increase the pressure once I feel the weight onto the nose of the car
Paddock- On entry I always aimed the car at the service road on the left-hand side, where there's a gap in the green paint. This makes it a nice straight run from the approach (along the pitwall) into the braking / turn-in point. On exit the car should feel as though it's going to go off the track, saved only by the trough at the bottom of the hill which momentarily loads everything up and allows you to keep it out of the gravel.
A symmetrical line through Druids seems to work just as well as the textbook line. It's important to avoid wheelspin so don't use the exit curb.
Graham Hill Bend is a proper trail-braker, if you can get the car to rotate a little on turn-in it's surprising how much speed can be carried. You really don't want to be fighting the car to keep it off the grass on the exit though so use as little of the exit curb as possible.
My car was flat through Surtees and you can pretty much straight-line it from the turn in point to the braking point for clearways.
I found it fastest not to use all the track on the outside of the circuit at turn-in for clearways, instead very patiently pointing the car in with slightly trailing brakes and very patiently feeding the power in, trying to avoid spinning the inside rear wheel as the circuit drops away after the apex. My exit point was always the painted while line which crosses the track, after which I'd guide the car back over to the pitwall for the Brabham straight.
(This is basically exactly as Mike says but phrased my way!)
A symmetrical line through Druids seems to work just as well as the textbook line. It's important to avoid wheelspin so don't use the exit curb.
Graham Hill Bend is a proper trail-braker, if you can get the car to rotate a little on turn-in it's surprising how much speed can be carried. You really don't want to be fighting the car to keep it off the grass on the exit though so use as little of the exit curb as possible.
My car was flat through Surtees and you can pretty much straight-line it from the turn in point to the braking point for clearways.
I found it fastest not to use all the track on the outside of the circuit at turn-in for clearways, instead very patiently pointing the car in with slightly trailing brakes and very patiently feeding the power in, trying to avoid spinning the inside rear wheel as the circuit drops away after the apex. My exit point was always the painted while line which crosses the track, after which I'd guide the car back over to the pitwall for the Brabham straight.
(This is basically exactly as Mike says but phrased my way!)
Edited by BritishRacinGrin on Friday 16th January 02:54
Good advice from the guys above. All I would add is that Druids is a really odd corner, if you find yourself deep on entry, you can actually get away with it around what would be classed as the outside. It's hard to say why but concentrate on exit and you can be just as quick (I've actually passed people like that as you end up on the on the inside for GH bend)
If you've ever driven at Silverstone then Paddock hill bend and Copse have a lot in common. Both bends really demand that you accelerate in to and through the apex. Don't turn in lightly and expect it to happen
Also, surtees was flat for me, but lot's of kerb on entry - If you have to take the Kerb, try and settle the car as much as possible before hitting the brakes - you can get away with more than you initially think- but too deep and you're in trouble!
Good luck, you really can't beat those race weekends !
If you've ever driven at Silverstone then Paddock hill bend and Copse have a lot in common. Both bends really demand that you accelerate in to and through the apex. Don't turn in lightly and expect it to happen
Also, surtees was flat for me, but lot's of kerb on entry - If you have to take the Kerb, try and settle the car as much as possible before hitting the brakes - you can get away with more than you initially think- but too deep and you're in trouble!
Good luck, you really can't beat those race weekends !
Good advice from the guys above. All I would add is that Druids is a really odd corner, if you find yourself deep on entry, you can actually get away with it around what would be classed as the outside. It's hard to say why but concentrate on exit and you can be just as quick (I've actually passed people like that as you end up on the on the inside for GH bend)
If you've ever driven at Silverstone then Paddock hill bend and Copse have a lot in common. Both bends really demand that you accelerate in to and through the apex. Don't turn in lightly and expect it to happen
Also, surtees was flat for me, but lot's of kerb on entry - If you have to take the Kerb, try and settle the car as much as possible before hitting the brakes - you can get away with more than you initially think- but too deep and you're in trouble!
Good luck, you really can't beat those race weekends !
If you've ever driven at Silverstone then Paddock hill bend and Copse have a lot in common. Both bends really demand that you accelerate in to and through the apex. Don't turn in lightly and expect it to happen
Also, surtees was flat for me, but lot's of kerb on entry - If you have to take the Kerb, try and settle the car as much as possible before hitting the brakes - you can get away with more than you initially think- but too deep and you're in trouble!
Good luck, you really can't beat those race weekends !
Some excellent advice so far. I've raced at Brands quite a lot in everything from a Metro doing 60 sec laps to a single seater at 48s (the latter is on You Tube if you search for my name), and here's how I see it:
Paddock: As said above, the approach is a big confidence thing because in many cars it's blind and you don't see the apex until you've turned in. There's a bit of road you can use on the left hand side that's there so vehicles can cross the track before the day starts and this can be used a little on entry, but don't miss the apex or get told off
The odd thing about Paddock is the multiple gradients through the bend - there's a slight hump/bump before it to watch out for (a bit like Quarry at Combe, you'll probably be choosing to brake before or after it), then there's a relatively standard initial phase when you're spotting the apex, followed by a big drop after the apex and then a compression at the exit, which in some cars can cause weird handling effects if you're still cornering during that bottom phase where you see the sump marks - I've seen many cars spear off to the left or right there as the suspension bottoms out. I tend to be neat on the way in so I can really come on the gas on the exit and get a very good run up to Druids - any exit speed lost will be magnified by your fight against gravity going up to Druids. That said, lots of people lose speed too early for Paddock as it's often a battle of nerves at 130mph+ with that blind crest approaching - I'm guilty of this, especially if my wide feet are getting jammed in the pedal box, and it's something I always try to work on when I drive Brands.
Druids: It's generally accepted that there are two lines around Druids - the classic hairpin line with an advanced apex (in deep, late apex, fast exit), which is very difficult to defend against a car that's got the run on you out of Paddock and up the hill, and the earlier turn in approach, trailbraking to get the car turned. I tend to practise both so I can use both during a race, but in qualifying I've tested both lines against the clock and I don't remember there being much in it. Don't go in too deep though as the track often gets mucky and slippery and the gravel looks deep there!
Graham Hill: Many cars struggle with gearing on the approach, needing another gear on the way down the hill, but taking that gear often loses time so it's usually best to stick with the lower gear and concentrate on the tricky braking and turn in. The tricky thing with GH bend is getting the car neutral on turn in - because the turn in is downhill, gravity can take over and give you too much oversteer, which in a RWD car means you're more cautious on the gas and that can really hurt you on the back straight. So you need a delicate touch on the way in, but get that turn in right and you can really hook it up nicely for a fast exit up towards Surtees.
Surtees Esses: Flat or close to flat in many cars, but as with most bends or sequences of that nature, it's often quicker to not be completely flat and then just scrub the speed off with steering angle, which is pointless and can mess you up for a neat entry into Clearways, so just be neat and as fast as possible, with an eye to where you want the car on turn in for Clearways. The first curb on the left can gain you a surprising amount of time if your car will handle it - note that it's quite low initially, but then goes up a lot - most cars only use the lower bit, and it some cars I've found a surprising amount of time here. Don't be too keen to hang right on the way in as you don't want to be dropping a wheel onto the grass at what will be one hell of a speed in most things. Watch the weight transfer if you're thinking about slowing for Clearways too early, most cars won't be happy about you backing off and braking unless you're straight and you'll be going very quick at this point - there's usually time for a quick moment straight before braking across the track for Clearways.
Clearways: a crucial bend as it leads onto the fastest straight at Brands. The main issue most people get here is oversteer at the apex due to the crest, which in a RWD car obviously hurts time as you're not coming on the throttle as much. The other thing I'm always telling myself to do is use the track on the left hand side on exit; because there's no curb, not a lot of run off and your eyes are pulled towards the straight it can be tempting to avoid it, but letting the car run out allows more throttle and more speed down that important main straight.
Main straight: It always felt quicker to me to take the downhill bit whilst the car's still accelerating hard and hug the pitwall, but it's probably all in my mind.
HTH
PS - Mark Hales did a 'drive Brands' DVD that's well worth a watch. He really knows his stuff and I'd also recommend him for driver coaching.
Paddock: As said above, the approach is a big confidence thing because in many cars it's blind and you don't see the apex until you've turned in. There's a bit of road you can use on the left hand side that's there so vehicles can cross the track before the day starts and this can be used a little on entry, but don't miss the apex or get told off
The odd thing about Paddock is the multiple gradients through the bend - there's a slight hump/bump before it to watch out for (a bit like Quarry at Combe, you'll probably be choosing to brake before or after it), then there's a relatively standard initial phase when you're spotting the apex, followed by a big drop after the apex and then a compression at the exit, which in some cars can cause weird handling effects if you're still cornering during that bottom phase where you see the sump marks - I've seen many cars spear off to the left or right there as the suspension bottoms out. I tend to be neat on the way in so I can really come on the gas on the exit and get a very good run up to Druids - any exit speed lost will be magnified by your fight against gravity going up to Druids. That said, lots of people lose speed too early for Paddock as it's often a battle of nerves at 130mph+ with that blind crest approaching - I'm guilty of this, especially if my wide feet are getting jammed in the pedal box, and it's something I always try to work on when I drive Brands.Druids: It's generally accepted that there are two lines around Druids - the classic hairpin line with an advanced apex (in deep, late apex, fast exit), which is very difficult to defend against a car that's got the run on you out of Paddock and up the hill, and the earlier turn in approach, trailbraking to get the car turned. I tend to practise both so I can use both during a race, but in qualifying I've tested both lines against the clock and I don't remember there being much in it. Don't go in too deep though as the track often gets mucky and slippery and the gravel looks deep there!
Graham Hill: Many cars struggle with gearing on the approach, needing another gear on the way down the hill, but taking that gear often loses time so it's usually best to stick with the lower gear and concentrate on the tricky braking and turn in. The tricky thing with GH bend is getting the car neutral on turn in - because the turn in is downhill, gravity can take over and give you too much oversteer, which in a RWD car means you're more cautious on the gas and that can really hurt you on the back straight. So you need a delicate touch on the way in, but get that turn in right and you can really hook it up nicely for a fast exit up towards Surtees.
Surtees Esses: Flat or close to flat in many cars, but as with most bends or sequences of that nature, it's often quicker to not be completely flat and then just scrub the speed off with steering angle, which is pointless and can mess you up for a neat entry into Clearways, so just be neat and as fast as possible, with an eye to where you want the car on turn in for Clearways. The first curb on the left can gain you a surprising amount of time if your car will handle it - note that it's quite low initially, but then goes up a lot - most cars only use the lower bit, and it some cars I've found a surprising amount of time here. Don't be too keen to hang right on the way in as you don't want to be dropping a wheel onto the grass at what will be one hell of a speed in most things. Watch the weight transfer if you're thinking about slowing for Clearways too early, most cars won't be happy about you backing off and braking unless you're straight and you'll be going very quick at this point - there's usually time for a quick moment straight before braking across the track for Clearways.
Clearways: a crucial bend as it leads onto the fastest straight at Brands. The main issue most people get here is oversteer at the apex due to the crest, which in a RWD car obviously hurts time as you're not coming on the throttle as much. The other thing I'm always telling myself to do is use the track on the left hand side on exit; because there's no curb, not a lot of run off and your eyes are pulled towards the straight it can be tempting to avoid it, but letting the car run out allows more throttle and more speed down that important main straight.
Main straight: It always felt quicker to me to take the downhill bit whilst the car's still accelerating hard and hug the pitwall, but it's probably all in my mind.
HTH
PS - Mark Hales did a 'drive Brands' DVD that's well worth a watch. He really knows his stuff and I'd also recommend him for driver coaching.
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