Is there a Market for an Inexpensive Hillclimb Car ?
Discussion
djroadboy said:
The Mk1 MX5 is an inexpensive hilliclimb car.
Really can't see any market for this at all. I hope you didn't pay much for this.
You've written exactly what I was thinking! A good MX5 with cage and and a few goodies can be had for well under 5k, and it's a very capable car even for a novice, it's already very well built by Mazda, and is pretty much bullet proof for hillclimbs /sprints.Really can't see any market for this at all. I hope you didn't pay much for this.
I think that sadly you've bought the rights to the wrong car. Good luck, but I doubt this will go very far.
as much as I am a fan of minis, and mini based kit cars, I think you have bought a pup....
the macoy is vile looking - the arches are all wrong for the wheels - look how nice something like a mini based gtm coupe is, plus they are rear wheel drive, so make ideal hill climb / sprint cars
also
the big money for anything mini based now is the cost of the engine/gearbox - realistically a decent power unit is going to be at least 6 grand - so even if the body shell is 'free' its going to be expensive to make a competitive car - the reason that people will still use minis is that they like them - asking them to build the running gear into an unknown kit car that doesn't have any real resale value just isn't going to work.
the macoy is vile looking - the arches are all wrong for the wheels - look how nice something like a mini based gtm coupe is, plus they are rear wheel drive, so make ideal hill climb / sprint cars
also
the big money for anything mini based now is the cost of the engine/gearbox - realistically a decent power unit is going to be at least 6 grand - so even if the body shell is 'free' its going to be expensive to make a competitive car - the reason that people will still use minis is that they like them - asking them to build the running gear into an unknown kit car that doesn't have any real resale value just isn't going to work.
I'm with DJRoadboy on this, the MX5 is very capable and can be easily upgraded with ITB etc to give reasonable power in a light and well handling car.
Other cheapest alternative road cars are things like Pug 205s, Saxos etc if people prefer fwd.
One other thing that sh has not been mentioned is that the building of kit cars seems to be on the wane these days, people don't seem to have the time or interest. If they do, they tend to buy a Locaterfields type car of which many seperate proven types exist.
Other cheapest alternative road cars are things like Pug 205s, Saxos etc if people prefer fwd.
One other thing that sh has not been mentioned is that the building of kit cars seems to be on the wane these days, people don't seem to have the time or interest. If they do, they tend to buy a Locaterfields type car of which many seperate proven types exist.
andy97 said:
I'm with DJRoadboy on this, the MX5 is very capable and can be easily upgraded with ITB etc to give reasonable power in a light and well handling car.
Other cheapest alternative road cars are things like Pug 205s, Saxos etc if people prefer fwd.
One other thing that sh has not been mentioned is that the building of kit cars seems to be on the wane these days, people don't seem to have the time or interest. If they do, they tend to buy a Locaterfields type car of which many seperate proven types exist.
I was intending the car to be fully built and Hill Ready , but if someone wanted to buy a Shell and build it themselves then that would be an option.Other cheapest alternative road cars are things like Pug 205s, Saxos etc if people prefer fwd.
One other thing that sh has not been mentioned is that the building of kit cars seems to be on the wane these days, people don't seem to have the time or interest. If they do, they tend to buy a Locaterfields type car of which many seperate proven types exist.
tyre smoke said:
OP, what do you consider 'cheap'?
As others have said, an MX5 is cheap. And competitive, pretty much from the 'off'.
I would wager for the money for a competitive one of your cars, I could monster the class with a well sorted MX5.
I have costed it up and would think around 7 and a bit K built and ready to Hillclimb (low overheads and sensible buying of components) , using a mildly tuned 1380 A series , the power to weight would be superior to a Mk1 MX5 inStd form that is , I do know of an MX5 at Gurston , and although it is Class leading it has had iirc north of 10k thrown at it.As others have said, an MX5 is cheap. And competitive, pretty much from the 'off'.
I would wager for the money for a competitive one of your cars, I could monster the class with a well sorted MX5.
EFA
Edited by Nero601 on Wednesday 24th June 14:06
I'm afraid to say you've little or no chance at that money. As has been said you could choose between a Pug 205 gti, Westfield SE, or Mazda MX5 all for sub £5k, all competitive in class, all fun to drive,all pretty, all with good parts supply and support etc etc.
On top of that if you were hell bent on something different you could buy a well sorted hillclimb spec Clan Crusader or Ginetta G15 for £7k ish.
Looks like a non starter to me and I commend your enthusiasm but I think you should try from a different starting with something light, pretty, rear wheel drive if poss and look at bike engine as the best route, ( gsxr engined gtm coupe type machine etc..)
Good luck whatever you do..
On top of that if you were hell bent on something different you could buy a well sorted hillclimb spec Clan Crusader or Ginetta G15 for £7k ish.
Looks like a non starter to me and I commend your enthusiasm but I think you should try from a different starting with something light, pretty, rear wheel drive if poss and look at bike engine as the best route, ( gsxr engined gtm coupe type machine etc..)
Good luck whatever you do..
M
EFA
I'd wager that an mx5 with ITB could be built for about that or less and would easier to run with great spares availability.
And to put this in perspective I have recently bought a Phantom Clubmans rolling chassis that is having an Vauxhall Red Top and 4 speed quaife gearbox in it. So far it owes me £5k and I expect to get it on track for about £7k.
You can buy a Vauxhall Lotus for about £7k and have a great deal of fun and you can buy a Zetec F Ford for less. Not necessarily the most competitive things in their respective classes but proper racing cars, actually very cheap to run, excellent resale potential and easy to work on with bullet proof mechanicals.
Can the project be re-engineered as a Clan? May actually be more slightly more interest in it that way in a very niche market for those that need spares for the ones they have, or look on that car with some fondness?
Nero601 said:
tyre smoke said:
OP, what do you consider 'cheap'?
As others have said, an MX5 is cheap. And competitive, pretty much from the 'off'.
I would wager for the money for a competitive one of your cars, I could monster the class with a well sorted MX5.
I have costed it up and would think around 7 and a bit K built and ready to Hillclimb (low overheads and sensible buying of components) , using a mildly tuned 1380 A series , the power to weight would be superior to a Mk1 MX5 inStd form that is , I do know of an MX5 at Gurston , and although it is Class leading it has had iirc north of 10k thrown at it.As others have said, an MX5 is cheap. And competitive, pretty much from the 'off'.
I would wager for the money for a competitive one of your cars, I could monster the class with a well sorted MX5.
EFA
Edited by Nero601 on Wednesday 24th June 14:06
And to put this in perspective I have recently bought a Phantom Clubmans rolling chassis that is having an Vauxhall Red Top and 4 speed quaife gearbox in it. So far it owes me £5k and I expect to get it on track for about £7k.
You can buy a Vauxhall Lotus for about £7k and have a great deal of fun and you can buy a Zetec F Ford for less. Not necessarily the most competitive things in their respective classes but proper racing cars, actually very cheap to run, excellent resale potential and easy to work on with bullet proof mechanicals.
Can the project be re-engineered as a Clan? May actually be more slightly more interest in it that way in a very niche market for those that need spares for the ones they have, or look on that car with some fondness?
Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 24th June 16:48
This
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/60160/ad...
+ this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-PEUGEOT-406-EXECUTI...
+ This
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Twin-Axle-Car-Transporte...
+ a bit of haggling and your not far away...Obviously loads of race spec mx5s around if you wanted to bring the whole lot in under £7k
https://racecarsdirect.com/Advert/Details/60160/ad...
+ this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1999-PEUGEOT-406-EXECUTI...
+ This
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Twin-Axle-Car-Transporte...
+ a bit of haggling and your not far away...Obviously loads of race spec mx5s around if you wanted to bring the whole lot in under £7k
andy97 said:
Can the project be re-engineered as a Clan? May actually be more slightly more interest in it that way in a very niche market for those that need spares for the ones they have, or look on that car with some fondness?
Not really , too expensive at the moment to re jig the Moulds , and probably issues with whomever owns the Clan.Edited by andy97 on Wednesday 24th June 16:48
Not wanting to be rude but the Clan I owned in the late 70s (chassis no 4 )was an awful lot better looking . I really don't think there is much of a market- as said MX5s, Seven type cars and modified Hatches cover a lot of bases and if one wanted to buy a custom built hill climb car then the Jedi type route is far more appealing surely ?
No positivity at all for this yet.
OP you seem quite determined to rebut everybody's comments and justify your belief in the idea (which is commendable), however ultimately the viability of a project such as this is determined by consumer's belief in the project, not yours.
The facts are that making the moulds good and commissioning production of the McCOY will require a large initial investment, the bought in donor parts are now scarce and very old so simultaneously expensive and of variable quality, and on top of all that the market is awash with alternatives which are cheaper, more competetive, more readily available, better supported, easier to run and repair etc etc.
And then there's the subjective matter of attractiveness upon which I won't comment for fear of being branded rude.
In summary, is there a market for an(other) inexpensive hillclimb car? not really. Is there a market for that hillclimb car? almost certainly not.
OP you seem quite determined to rebut everybody's comments and justify your belief in the idea (which is commendable), however ultimately the viability of a project such as this is determined by consumer's belief in the project, not yours.
The facts are that making the moulds good and commissioning production of the McCOY will require a large initial investment, the bought in donor parts are now scarce and very old so simultaneously expensive and of variable quality, and on top of all that the market is awash with alternatives which are cheaper, more competetive, more readily available, better supported, easier to run and repair etc etc.
And then there's the subjective matter of attractiveness upon which I won't comment for fear of being branded rude.
In summary, is there a market for an(other) inexpensive hillclimb car? not really. Is there a market for that hillclimb car? almost certainly not.
Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 25th June 02:51
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