Is there a Market for an Inexpensive Hillclimb Car ?
Discussion
HustleRussell said:
No positivity at all for this yet.
OP you seem quite determined to rebut everybody's comments and justify your belief in the idea (which is commendable), however ultimately the viability of a project such as this is determined by consumer's belief in the project, not yours.
The facts are that making the moulds good and commissioning production of the McCOY will require a large initial investment, the bought in donor parts are now scarce and very old so simultaneously expensive and of variable quality, and on top of all that the market is awash with alternatives which are cheaper, more competetive, more readily available, better supported, easier to run and repair etc etc.
And then there's the subjective matter of attractiveness upon which I won't comment for fear of being branded rude.
In summary, is there a market for an(other) inexpensive hillclimb car? not really. Is there a market for that hillclimb car? almost certainly not.
I have merely answered a few questions/points which have been imo relevant.OP you seem quite determined to rebut everybody's comments and justify your belief in the idea (which is commendable), however ultimately the viability of a project such as this is determined by consumer's belief in the project, not yours.
The facts are that making the moulds good and commissioning production of the McCOY will require a large initial investment, the bought in donor parts are now scarce and very old so simultaneously expensive and of variable quality, and on top of all that the market is awash with alternatives which are cheaper, more competetive, more readily available, better supported, easier to run and repair etc etc.
And then there's the subjective matter of attractiveness upon which I won't comment for fear of being branded rude.
In summary, is there a market for an(other) inexpensive hillclimb car? not really. Is there a market for that hillclimb car? almost certainly not.
Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 25th June 02:51
Beauty will always be in the eye of the beholder , so I would not brand you rude if you thought it was not easy on your eye.
thanks for you opinion
Drumroll said:
You really need to do a lot more homework.
What class do you think it will run in?
What is already in that class?
What can you do that will make your car competitive?
Above all read the blue book (the MSA bible) no point in doing anything if the car is not going to comply with that.
I have a Blue Book (as I have competed) but will take your points on board , Thanks What class do you think it will run in?
What is already in that class?
What can you do that will make your car competitive?
Above all read the blue book (the MSA bible) no point in doing anything if the car is not going to comply with that.
Nero601 said:
Norfolkandchance said:
Probably wouldn't be that fun to drive either
Not sure why you think that , it was always praised for it's handling back when it was first produced.Specialist class contains modern Caterhams etc. They will be lighter, more powerful and were designed entirely to be fun and then refined over decades. It would have to be one hell of a mini-based special to be more fun than one of those, in most people's eyes (hence the "probably")
Norfolkandchance said:
Nero601 said:
Norfolkandchance said:
Probably wouldn't be that fun to drive either
Not sure why you think that , it was always praised for it's handling back when it was first produced.Specialist class contains modern Caterhams etc. They will be lighter, more powerful and were designed entirely to be fun and then refined over decades. It would have to be one hell of a mini-based special to be more fun than one of those, in most people's eyes (hence the "probably")
Drumroll said:
What class do you think it will run in?
What is already in that class?
What can you do that will make your car competitive?
Above all read the blue book (the MSA bible) no point in doing anything if the car is not going to comply with that.
THIS !!What is already in that class?
What can you do that will make your car competitive?
Above all read the blue book (the MSA bible) no point in doing anything if the car is not going to comply with that.
If the car was ultra-competitive in its class, you could get away with, shall we say, "sub-optimal" looks...
But... With a mini engine, I don't see any class where it would be anywhere near competitive, so sadly, it's a non-starter, in my opinion.
If you disagree with most of the opinions on here, I suggest that you develop ONE car to its maximum potential, and then either compete in it yourself (or find someone else if your abilities can't do it justice) - that is your best chance of "advertising" it....
Best of luck whatever you decide to do.
I think you you'd have to wonder why this hasn't been done before.
When it comes to Mini based kit cars hill climbing you get the odd Mini Jem, a few GTM's and a few more Mini Marcoses. The Mini Marcos is still a pretty cheap car to pick up, you can buy cages for them off the shelf and arguably better looks.
I've seen the odd Mcoy racing/hillclimbing, but if it was such a good idea, why aren't they still out there?
When it comes to Mini based kit cars hill climbing you get the odd Mini Jem, a few GTM's and a few more Mini Marcoses. The Mini Marcos is still a pretty cheap car to pick up, you can buy cages for them off the shelf and arguably better looks.
I've seen the odd Mcoy racing/hillclimbing, but if it was such a good idea, why aren't they still out there?
Edmundo2 said:
On top of that if you were hell bent on something different you could buy a well sorted hillclimb spec Clan Crusader or Ginetta G15 for £7k ish.
I'm not convinced you could get a well sorted 998cc (or more) Imp engine on 40s and appropriate transaxle for £7k, never mind a complete Clan or (especially) Ginetta G15. Prices of Imp stuff are probably eye-watering to people used to paying motorbike engine prices. Mind you, if such a G15 came up at that price, but for storage problems I'd probably buy it.If one were to throw enough money at Dave Weedon he'd probably make a new Clan shell in something very light and very strong (I do not mean GRP and plywood)....
onomatopoeia said:
I'm not convinced you could get a well sorted 998cc (or more) Imp engine on 40s and appropriate transaxle for £7k, never mind a complete Clan or (especially) Ginetta G15. Prices of Imp stuff are probably eye-watering to people used to paying motorbike engine prices. Mind you, if such a G15 came up at that price, but for storage problems I'd probably buy it.
If one were to throw enough money at Dave Weedon he'd probably make a new Clan shell in something very light and very strong (I do not mean GRP and plywood)....
There's been a couple over the past year or two and although prices are creeping up there still out there. Quite often racey ones are a bit more stripped back and less emphasis put on paintwork or headlining condition etc. To prove a point theres one here http://m.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=clan+crusader&... . Will be interesting to see what it goes for and whether any change left over for further improvements? I love imps and the engine but nowadays I just don't think they stack up in most classes as often running in modified classes where bec conversions etc offer a more cost effective solution.If one were to throw enough money at Dave Weedon he'd probably make a new Clan shell in something very light and very strong (I do not mean GRP and plywood)....
Edited by Edmundo2 on Monday 29th June 23:21
I love it when people come up with ideas like this, it keeps life interesting.
However this is a niche within a niche, wearing a niche coat and speaking Esperanto.
If you're happy to lose large sums of money and the project would make you happy then do it. Full steam ahead.
But if not selling a single car, possibly ever, would have men banging at your door and your wife moving in with the milkman then I'd find a different application for the kit/rights you've bought.
Either way good luck. I'd much rather see one of these going up a hill than a Mazda.
However this is a niche within a niche, wearing a niche coat and speaking Esperanto.
If you're happy to lose large sums of money and the project would make you happy then do it. Full steam ahead.
But if not selling a single car, possibly ever, would have men banging at your door and your wife moving in with the milkman then I'd find a different application for the kit/rights you've bought.
Either way good luck. I'd much rather see one of these going up a hill than a Mazda.
dai1983 said:
Think you would have to change the donor car and modernise the bodywork. Cheap and common cars with light engines are the Ford Puma and Focus
^^^^^This.I am not sure of your experience of cheap hillclimbing / sprinting, ( have not looked ) but we are talking a few hundred quid can get you into the sport ( out record is £150 for an MOT'd 1.6 Eunos ( Jap spec MX5 with LSD ) and it is still going 3 years later with class wins under it's belt.
The problem with sprinting and hillclimbing is that once you move out of the standard road going classes then it can be as expensive as circuit racing if you want to be compettitive, and if you want to win you better have deep pockets...
By all means look into building that car, but cheap hillclimbing is not your target audience trust me... Unless you can produce class leading power to weight ratios and handling to match it would get absolutely destroyed.
Just to add my mini runs against Davrians in the 1400cc modified production class. Some run 1.0 turbo engines at 170bhp and 550 kgs, they shift..... Next class up over 1400 ( normally 2.0. Unlimited modified engines ) you will need 200bhp to get a look in , and awesome handling. But 250bhp normally aspirated would be better.....
If you do fancy something small and light, mAybe id suggest 1.4 turbo sneaking under the 2.0 equivalency limit and 250 - 300 bhp via an Uno / Punto turbo motor or maybe 5GT turbo ?? But you also said "cheap"?
Lose the keyword cheap and you could make a nice fun car, but not a cheap I dig you genuinely want to win ANYTHING
If you do fancy something small and light, mAybe id suggest 1.4 turbo sneaking under the 2.0 equivalency limit and 250 - 300 bhp via an Uno / Punto turbo motor or maybe 5GT turbo ?? But you also said "cheap"?
Lose the keyword cheap and you could make a nice fun car, but not a cheap I dig you genuinely want to win ANYTHING
Furyblade_Lee said:
Just to add my mini runs against Davrians in the 1400cc modified production class.
I own a Davrian, it shouldn't be in a class with a Mini since the changes to the category definitions raised the minimum from 100 / year to 1000 / year to qualify for "series" rather than "specialist".My Davrian hasn't been out since, I could get close enough to a well sorted 1380cc Mini to make it fun with my naturally aspirated 998cc Imp engine (ultimately on a fast track the capacity difference would be telling), but have no chance in a class with bike engined Caterfields.
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