looking into motorsport, few questions and car suggestions
Discussion
Hey guys and gals,
So iv been saving up for a while to but a car the end of 2015 and i recently decided that id like to look at getting into sprinting or hillclimb events.
Iv done a few trackdays before and iv owned a few mx5's, civics and 1 e36.
Iv been looking to buy somthing different to what iv already owned, clio 172, pug 106 gti 206 gti? Kitcar?
My question is- for instance if i brought a clio 172 cup, stripped ot out with bucket seats, polybushed with coilovers. Would i be in an over 2.0l modified class and get my ass handed to me? Would still be road legal and used to go to the shops twice a week.
Would i be better staying in a lower cc class?
Hope this isnt noob questions i am attending a local club meet this weekend (my first ever just to get a feel for it) but thought id ask a bigger audience
Thanks
So iv been saving up for a while to but a car the end of 2015 and i recently decided that id like to look at getting into sprinting or hillclimb events.
Iv done a few trackdays before and iv owned a few mx5's, civics and 1 e36.
Iv been looking to buy somthing different to what iv already owned, clio 172, pug 106 gti 206 gti? Kitcar?
My question is- for instance if i brought a clio 172 cup, stripped ot out with bucket seats, polybushed with coilovers. Would i be in an over 2.0l modified class and get my ass handed to me? Would still be road legal and used to go to the shops twice a week.
Would i be better staying in a lower cc class?
Hope this isnt noob questions i am attending a local club meet this weekend (my first ever just to get a feel for it) but thought id ask a bigger audience
Thanks
I'm also looking into this and I believe that for hillclimbs/sprint road legal classes the following applies:
-exhaust free
-induction free
-remaps ok
-can change suspension but original mounting points are used
-can't change brake size but pad material is free
-can fit a cage, seats and harnesses
-can remove carpet but other interior must remain. Took this to mean that the sound deadening, rear seat frame, spare wheel, ac etc can be removed as long as it looks normal
-vehicle silhouette must remain standard
-fabreglass boot and bonnets can be fitted but glass must remain
-helmet, boots, gloves and suit
- one that I'm confused about is the book states that the roll cage must not connect suspension points together. I guess this rules out cages that attach to the strut tops?
I went to gurston on Father's Day it it looked good fun. There was about 15-20 runners in the standard road going and about 3 in the modified. I recently bought a 172 daily driver and two Ford Puma 1.7 sheds (£270 for both fords!). I think the Puma is eligible for 1600-1800cc where the 172 would be 2000cc.
The problem with RS Clios is the cost of spares and the biggie cam belt change which is £600 for everything at a specialist. I usually do all my own work but I've been warned off the Clio cam belt due to needing the genuine Renault tools. They are fast and handle well though despite their comedy bus steering wheel.
Current thinking is to use one of the Pumas as a daily driver and prep the other as a road/targa rally car. It seems you get more mileage for your money over sprit/hill climbs. If I really get into it I'll drop a 1400 or 1600 in it for endurance or stage rally. (More likely endurance due to the cost of stages and close proximity of endurance events)
-exhaust free
-induction free
-remaps ok
-can change suspension but original mounting points are used
-can't change brake size but pad material is free
-can fit a cage, seats and harnesses
-can remove carpet but other interior must remain. Took this to mean that the sound deadening, rear seat frame, spare wheel, ac etc can be removed as long as it looks normal
-vehicle silhouette must remain standard
-fabreglass boot and bonnets can be fitted but glass must remain
-helmet, boots, gloves and suit
- one that I'm confused about is the book states that the roll cage must not connect suspension points together. I guess this rules out cages that attach to the strut tops?
I went to gurston on Father's Day it it looked good fun. There was about 15-20 runners in the standard road going and about 3 in the modified. I recently bought a 172 daily driver and two Ford Puma 1.7 sheds (£270 for both fords!). I think the Puma is eligible for 1600-1800cc where the 172 would be 2000cc.
The problem with RS Clios is the cost of spares and the biggie cam belt change which is £600 for everything at a specialist. I usually do all my own work but I've been warned off the Clio cam belt due to needing the genuine Renault tools. They are fast and handle well though despite their comedy bus steering wheel.
Current thinking is to use one of the Pumas as a daily driver and prep the other as a road/targa rally car. It seems you get more mileage for your money over sprit/hill climbs. If I really get into it I'll drop a 1400 or 1600 in it for endurance or stage rally. (More likely endurance due to the cost of stages and close proximity of endurance events)
I'm from Yeovil and looking at the map below I have 3 endurance rallies and quite a few road rallies nearby:
http://www.britishroadrallying.com/event-map/
Currently deciding weather to use my 1.7 for road rally, drop a 1.4 in it or just buy a 1.4 car anyway for endurance events.
I know what you mean about a standard car as I'd love a stripped out vehicle but then I'd have to do stage rallies which cost loads more! At gurston somebody changed their boot for fibreglass but had polycarbonate "glass" in it. The scrutineers told him off but said he could compete due to the fact he wouldn't trouble the front runners. The modified cars didn't look that crazy to be fair but were mostly old minis.
Some clubs have 1600-1800cc and 1800-2000cc while others just have 16-2000cc
http://www.britishroadrallying.com/event-map/
Currently deciding weather to use my 1.7 for road rally, drop a 1.4 in it or just buy a 1.4 car anyway for endurance events.
I know what you mean about a standard car as I'd love a stripped out vehicle but then I'd have to do stage rallies which cost loads more! At gurston somebody changed their boot for fibreglass but had polycarbonate "glass" in it. The scrutineers told him off but said he could compete due to the fact he wouldn't trouble the front runners. The modified cars didn't look that crazy to be fair but were mostly old minis.
Some clubs have 1600-1800cc and 1800-2000cc while others just have 16-2000cc
If you can, get ahold of a current MSA Blue book and read up on the relevant hillclimb / sprint section for the roadgoing classes. [ I thinks its available online ? ]
You can make quite a lot of mods, so long as engine block / head and G-box casing are the same, but all interior trim must stay except carpets, all seats etc must stay.
No rose joints, poly bushing is ok, standard pick up points must be used, but it’s quite free on dampers springs ride heights etc, IMO a nice level of mods allowed.
I would get yourself along to some more events and have a good look at the cars in the class, speak to the owners, Hillclimbers are generally a Very friendly bunch who are happy to talk about their cars, generally the ones who won’t might have something to hide
You can make quite a lot of mods, so long as engine block / head and G-box casing are the same, but all interior trim must stay except carpets, all seats etc must stay.
No rose joints, poly bushing is ok, standard pick up points must be used, but it’s quite free on dampers springs ride heights etc, IMO a nice level of mods allowed.
I would get yourself along to some more events and have a good look at the cars in the class, speak to the owners, Hillclimbers are generally a Very friendly bunch who are happy to talk about their cars, generally the ones who won’t might have something to hide
Mark A S said:
If you can, get ahold of a current MSA Blue book and read up on the relevant hillclimb / sprint section for the roadgoing classes. [ I thinks its available online ? ]
It certainly is:https://www.msauk.org/assets/2015msayearbook.pdf
ringy - I am doing similar to you, so doing all the same research!
Section S of the Blue Book - free to download of the website, will give you all the answers. Its whether you want your car to be 'roadgoing series production' or 'modified road series production'
Re: Suspension, I was of the understanding that shock absorbers could be changed, but the rest of the suspension had to remain standard - it is possible I misread that.
Section S of the Blue Book - free to download of the website, will give you all the answers. Its whether you want your car to be 'roadgoing series production' or 'modified road series production'
Re: Suspension, I was of the understanding that shock absorbers could be changed, but the rest of the suspension had to remain standard - it is possible I misread that.
For roadgoing classes, the suspension can be changed but must remain as per the original design and use the original mounting points. So for example, you can change from non-adjustable dampers to coilovers, and from fixed top mounts to adjustable ones, but you can't install coil springs where leaf springs were originally fitted.
WOW thanks for all the info guys. Will download a copy of the blue book now and have a read through.
Hopfully should answer all my questions. Going to sighn up to that uphillracers forum aswell, seems a good place to mooch for info.
Still undecided on what car to buy. Think it may be best to have a lurk around a few other peoples cars and see whats what.
Hopfully should answer all my questions. Going to sighn up to that uphillracers forum aswell, seems a good place to mooch for info.
Still undecided on what car to buy. Think it may be best to have a lurk around a few other peoples cars and see whats what.
WOW thanks for all the info guys. Will download a copy of the blue book now and have a read through.
Hopfully should answer all my questions. Going to sighn up to that uphillracers forum aswell, seems a good place to mooch for info.
Still undecided on what car to buy. Think it may be best to have a lurk around a few other peoples cars and see whats what.
Hopfully should answer all my questions. Going to sighn up to that uphillracers forum aswell, seems a good place to mooch for info.
Still undecided on what car to buy. Think it may be best to have a lurk around a few other peoples cars and see whats what.
The best thing to do is to find a championship first and then either build a car to their regulations, or the cheaper and easier option, which is to buy a car that's already been converted. If you modify a car first then you'll undoubtedly have to change things to go racing, unless you run in an invitation class, which is a bit pointless. You may wish to look at the 750MC hatch championships - they're extremely popular, or their MR2 series, which is another extremely popular series.
You could have a look at the results from previous sprints and then you'll get an idea of which cars are competitive in their respective classes
Have a look at the results archive for our club (Bristol Motor Club) http://bristolmc.org.uk/results-archive/ and pick a circuit that you might attend to see what's winning.
In our neck of the woods a Clio isn't going to be the most competitive car out there but if you take a look down at A1, you'll find that a Suzuki Swift is very competitive and not at all expensive.
We also run an MX5 championship specifically so that MX5s have a class that makes them competitive and there was talk of running a Clio championship.
Have a look at the results archive for our club (Bristol Motor Club) http://bristolmc.org.uk/results-archive/ and pick a circuit that you might attend to see what's winning.
In our neck of the woods a Clio isn't going to be the most competitive car out there but if you take a look down at A1, you'll find that a Suzuki Swift is very competitive and not at all expensive.
We also run an MX5 championship specifically so that MX5s have a class that makes them competitive and there was talk of running a Clio championship.
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