A Baptism of Fire
Discussion
Hi Steve, I wasn't far from you in the Paddock but had a slightly challenging day, including a dash to PH sportscars at Shardlow to get a fuel rail as mine had cracked, so not much time to explore the Paddock and chat.
I got lousy starts and spent most of my stint behind the safety car and we eventually retired from the race with a down on power engine and an oil leak. I think we were the last classified finisher.
I thought the driving standards left something to be desired.
I got lousy starts and spent most of my stint behind the safety car and we eventually retired from the race with a down on power engine and an oil leak. I think we were the last classified finisher.
I thought the driving standards left something to be desired.
Hi Richard, Good to chat to you again, seeing you walk the opposite way was a useful reminder that the drivers briefing was imminent!
Andy, don't be hard on yourself, you/we raced well with one of the oldest cars on the grid and had a good tussle with different cars, our lap times were a teeny bit quicker than Thurbs too
Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLVkKMHQZE0
Andy, don't be hard on yourself, you/we raced well with one of the oldest cars on the grid and had a good tussle with different cars, our lap times were a teeny bit quicker than Thurbs too
Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLVkKMHQZE0
Sorry to hear it didn't go to plan Andy, I had a DNF while leading the class last time out at Snett so I know how that feels 
.
I didn't have too many issues with driving standards TBH but looking at the starts on your video it does look pretty busy! I hope the MR2 got penalised for his jump start on the second start, I think he went as soon as the lights went ON
.
Here's my video from the second start onwards -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixIsWyU8M-0
I was surprised how quick the times were, the top five managed times below 1.50 so the track had a good bit of pace in it compared to last year.
Anyhoo, onwards and upwards, just got to decide what/if I'm going to do next year now!
.I didn't have too many issues with driving standards TBH but looking at the starts on your video it does look pretty busy! I hope the MR2 got penalised for his jump start on the second start, I think he went as soon as the lights went ON
.Here's my video from the second start onwards -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixIsWyU8M-0
I was surprised how quick the times were, the top five managed times below 1.50 so the track had a good bit of pace in it compared to last year.
Anyhoo, onwards and upwards, just got to decide what/if I'm going to do next year now!
I was only there on Sunday and didn't get time to come find you, so on that basis I'm glad I didn't get to meet you guys.
Sundays driving was pretty much fine, however Saturday was described as 'carnage, every barrier got damaged'. By the look of it your races were okay though. Some drivers did get told off for loosing less than 1s/lap under yellows on Saturday though.
Sundays driving was pretty much fine, however Saturday was described as 'carnage, every barrier got damaged'. By the look of it your races were okay though. Some drivers did get told off for loosing less than 1s/lap under yellows on Saturday though.
Steve H said:
I didn't have too many issues with driving standards TBH but looking at the starts on your video it does look pretty busy! I hope the MR2 got penalised for his jump start on the second start, I think he went as soon as the lights went ON .
!
My issues with driving standards were not so much the race but in qualifying there were numerous cars actually dicing and I got side swiped by one car on the pit straight. In qualifying for god sake. .!
There was also excessive weaving on the green flag lap to the extent that I'm surprised there wasn't an accident before the start, and several cars failed to stop on the grid after the red flag came out.
That does sound crazy in quali, it amazes me how some drivers will slow their own lap times in trying to stop someone getting past.
For the leading pack, the red flag came out as they were on the pit straight, stopping by the line wasn't indicated by the marshals at that point and for sure wasn't a safe option from where I was sitting but I don't know if there were issues with cars further back not seeing the flags and overshooting.
For the leading pack, the red flag came out as they were on the pit straight, stopping by the line wasn't indicated by the marshals at that point and for sure wasn't a safe option from where I was sitting but I don't know if there were issues with cars further back not seeing the flags and overshooting.
Impressive there Dave with the one-handed steering technique! I love the single handed dab of oppo!
Fishy Dave said:
Hi all, I had another full weekend of racing with 3 races over the two days so thought I would update you all on how I got on. This weekend was the first weekend I actually felt ready for, but there seems to be a recurring theme with my race weekends… you can never be “ready”, only a little better prepared!
I picked up my new trailer (a Brian James Cargo Connect) packed up the motor home and set off pretty late on the Friday night. What a dream having your own trailer rather than the hassle of picking and dropping off a hire. At 23:30 I arrived to a full paddock (again) with nowhere to park and being worried about waking everyone else up. I don’t know why as the A420s which skim overhead seem to do quite a good job of keeping everyone up. It had been a full on week at work with 12 hour days so I was pretty knackered when I arrived, so apart seemingly sleeping on a runway, I got my head down at a normal’ish’ time.
7am arrives and the usual round of sign on, briefing (I am here, don’t crash, track limits, live snatch etc) is got out of the way. My lazy good for nothing son hadn’t yet bothered to get up so I had to push the Clio to scrutineering on my own. Luckily I got some help from fellow competitors who saw me struggling and then joined an epic queue of cars. After about 3 weeks (probably 40 minutes) I exchanged my piece of paper for a piece of card and for the first time ever didn’t have any jobs to do… how nice!
I then cooked a fry-up, fuelled the car, did pressures, torqued up the nuts, checked levels / pins, stuck in the GoPros and got ready for the off. Having done the Donnington tack day a few weeks back I was confident of doing a 1:57.2 again hoping this was a respectable time and I wouldn’t be dead last.
Qualified 25th out of 42, 12th out of 16 in class B. Pretty happy with this, especially given I had beaten my best time by a second.
Got back, drank some tea, watched the qualifying video and cursed myself for forgetting to put a memory card in the RaceLogic LapTimer. Luckily I had set my alarm on my phone for the series briefing in the morning as I had completely forgotten. Walking to race control it was obvious most others had also forgotten so I marshalled the troops to the briefing room but clearly had missed some. Queue the same tedious and slightly pointless (I am here, don’t crash, track limits, safety car etc.) briefing by a pretty dead pan Clerk of the Course it was time to hit the track.
The race comes around pretty quick but more torqueing, pressures, levels, gopros etc I am in the assembly area, then before I know it the lights are off and we are racing! Taking the first lap around Donington I become very aware of how slow and timid I am on the opening lap. I am mugged left, right and centre by not being aggressive, leaving too much of a gap and not driving defensively enough. It is hard to describe the difference between road driving and race driving. Personal space seems to be the thickness of paint you have on your doors, and this is regularly invaded as required. I was cursing my timidness entering the chicane before the loop when the nutcase in the VX220 decided to stick it in to the side of a Mini, spin and then retire. As others had said, this stopped the race. As an aside, I was one of those who followed the leader around the lap rather than stopping on the start finish straight. I will check the blue book when I get home and see what I should have done!
Anyway, the good news was my poor first lap was wiped out and I started 25th again for the re-start. Second time around I was better and limited the losses made on the opening lap but I still needed to be on it from the go rather than wondering what the rear would do around Crainer Curves for example.
I settled down in to the race putting in some ok times, I arrived quite early after the blow up which caused the oil on the track but kept the rear in check and saw the white Mini lose it behind me. This brought out a really slow safety car before the pit stop window. Unfortunately I wasn’t quick enough to notice the pit stop window when it first opened, so carried on and ended up briefly running in about 5th place! I came in after the second lap and had a trouble free stop. So much nicer not having to get out and in again compared to CSCC. This is a big bonus for me and much prefer it.
Post pit stop it was more of the same, but with the brake pedal getting ever longer and longer. With braking zones getting 10’s of meters longer I was beginning to think I had cooked the fluid or overheated the pads but tried to carry on anyway. Exploring the track limits somewhat because I was arriving in to corners way to fast I did consider pulling in to the pits to see what is what… and then on the last corner I tried to catch up with a Clio which had over taken me, tried breaking late and had no retardation. I bounced over the curb, over the grass, on to the link road, over the gravel and then stuffed it in to the wall!
What amazed me was that there wasn’t plooms of steam coming from the front and as I was a stone’s throw from the pits, I reversed out of the gravel (luckily) and skulked in to the pits. After a quick check it turns out that all was well and I got back out on track to try and finish the race. Not wanting to put it in the wall again, I was nice and cautious this time and didn’t push any braking zone at all, but did get a driver warning flag for the lap after my unscheduled pit stop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbVxwyDI4DA
So back in the pits and I check the brakes only to find I had run out of material. Essentially I was on the backing plate of the pads for the last 5 laps or so and had completely destroyed the disks. What a noob. I had checked the material prior to the weekend and there was loads of material left, but it seems that 30 minutes qualifying and 45 minute race uses more… Just as well I have another 15 minutes qualifying and 2 x 15 minute races on Sunday!!
A quick call to Matt at Go Racing Motorsport and (http://goracingmotorsport.uk/) they agreed to bring me down some new pads and disks that evening so I am ready for the Clios on Sunday. I can’t thank them enough for the support they have given me so far and I am really and profoundly grateful.
So a few hours later the callipers are off, pads out and piston is clamped back ready for some new shiny bits. John and the team arrive around 9pm so I spend the next few hours putting on the disks, pads, wheels and torque up ready for the morning.
More to follow…
I picked up my new trailer (a Brian James Cargo Connect) packed up the motor home and set off pretty late on the Friday night. What a dream having your own trailer rather than the hassle of picking and dropping off a hire. At 23:30 I arrived to a full paddock (again) with nowhere to park and being worried about waking everyone else up. I don’t know why as the A420s which skim overhead seem to do quite a good job of keeping everyone up. It had been a full on week at work with 12 hour days so I was pretty knackered when I arrived, so apart seemingly sleeping on a runway, I got my head down at a normal’ish’ time.
7am arrives and the usual round of sign on, briefing (I am here, don’t crash, track limits, live snatch etc) is got out of the way. My lazy good for nothing son hadn’t yet bothered to get up so I had to push the Clio to scrutineering on my own. Luckily I got some help from fellow competitors who saw me struggling and then joined an epic queue of cars. After about 3 weeks (probably 40 minutes) I exchanged my piece of paper for a piece of card and for the first time ever didn’t have any jobs to do… how nice!
I then cooked a fry-up, fuelled the car, did pressures, torqued up the nuts, checked levels / pins, stuck in the GoPros and got ready for the off. Having done the Donnington tack day a few weeks back I was confident of doing a 1:57.2 again hoping this was a respectable time and I wouldn’t be dead last.
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Pole lap | 1:47.29 |
| Class fastest lap | 1:48.49 |
| My lap | 1:56.64 |
Qualified 25th out of 42, 12th out of 16 in class B. Pretty happy with this, especially given I had beaten my best time by a second.
Got back, drank some tea, watched the qualifying video and cursed myself for forgetting to put a memory card in the RaceLogic LapTimer. Luckily I had set my alarm on my phone for the series briefing in the morning as I had completely forgotten. Walking to race control it was obvious most others had also forgotten so I marshalled the troops to the briefing room but clearly had missed some. Queue the same tedious and slightly pointless (I am here, don’t crash, track limits, safety car etc.) briefing by a pretty dead pan Clerk of the Course it was time to hit the track.
The race comes around pretty quick but more torqueing, pressures, levels, gopros etc I am in the assembly area, then before I know it the lights are off and we are racing! Taking the first lap around Donington I become very aware of how slow and timid I am on the opening lap. I am mugged left, right and centre by not being aggressive, leaving too much of a gap and not driving defensively enough. It is hard to describe the difference between road driving and race driving. Personal space seems to be the thickness of paint you have on your doors, and this is regularly invaded as required. I was cursing my timidness entering the chicane before the loop when the nutcase in the VX220 decided to stick it in to the side of a Mini, spin and then retire. As others had said, this stopped the race. As an aside, I was one of those who followed the leader around the lap rather than stopping on the start finish straight. I will check the blue book when I get home and see what I should have done!
Anyway, the good news was my poor first lap was wiped out and I started 25th again for the re-start. Second time around I was better and limited the losses made on the opening lap but I still needed to be on it from the go rather than wondering what the rear would do around Crainer Curves for example.
I settled down in to the race putting in some ok times, I arrived quite early after the blow up which caused the oil on the track but kept the rear in check and saw the white Mini lose it behind me. This brought out a really slow safety car before the pit stop window. Unfortunately I wasn’t quick enough to notice the pit stop window when it first opened, so carried on and ended up briefly running in about 5th place! I came in after the second lap and had a trouble free stop. So much nicer not having to get out and in again compared to CSCC. This is a big bonus for me and much prefer it.
Post pit stop it was more of the same, but with the brake pedal getting ever longer and longer. With braking zones getting 10’s of meters longer I was beginning to think I had cooked the fluid or overheated the pads but tried to carry on anyway. Exploring the track limits somewhat because I was arriving in to corners way to fast I did consider pulling in to the pits to see what is what… and then on the last corner I tried to catch up with a Clio which had over taken me, tried breaking late and had no retardation. I bounced over the curb, over the grass, on to the link road, over the gravel and then stuffed it in to the wall!
What amazed me was that there wasn’t plooms of steam coming from the front and as I was a stone’s throw from the pits, I reversed out of the gravel (luckily) and skulked in to the pits. After a quick check it turns out that all was well and I got back out on track to try and finish the race. Not wanting to put it in the wall again, I was nice and cautious this time and didn’t push any braking zone at all, but did get a driver warning flag for the lap after my unscheduled pit stop.
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Position | 30th out of 35 |
| Class Position | 10th out of 12 in class B |
| Fastest lap | 1:48.28 |
| My fastest lap | 1:59.50 |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbVxwyDI4DA
So back in the pits and I check the brakes only to find I had run out of material. Essentially I was on the backing plate of the pads for the last 5 laps or so and had completely destroyed the disks. What a noob. I had checked the material prior to the weekend and there was loads of material left, but it seems that 30 minutes qualifying and 45 minute race uses more… Just as well I have another 15 minutes qualifying and 2 x 15 minute races on Sunday!!
A quick call to Matt at Go Racing Motorsport and (http://goracingmotorsport.uk/) they agreed to bring me down some new pads and disks that evening so I am ready for the Clios on Sunday. I can’t thank them enough for the support they have given me so far and I am really and profoundly grateful.
So a few hours later the callipers are off, pads out and piston is clamped back ready for some new shiny bits. John and the team arrive around 9pm so I spend the next few hours putting on the disks, pads, wheels and torque up ready for the morning.
More to follow…
Another good read, thanks, but I'm surprised by the brake issues. I usually reckon on a set of pads lasting 4 ish 40 min races and practice at the very least and discs lasting all season. What pads are you using?
Or maybe I don't brake hard enough. Another reason why I'm slow!
Or maybe I don't brake hard enough. Another reason why I'm slow!
Edited by andy97 on Saturday 10th October 07:17
Edited by andy97 on Saturday 10th October 07:18
I'm with you Andy, I fitted new brakes at the start of the season, I've done five 45 minutes Roadsports and five qualis, a bit over an hours running for the Summer Endurance at Snett and a couple of Allcomers races, and the pads are about 2/3 worn.
Are the pad compounds fixed for the 182 Championship?
Are the pad compounds fixed for the 182 Championship?
OP - you appear in this video, posted on the Rookie2Racer article on the TrackDriver magazine:
http://trackdriver.com/blog/?p=889
Approx. 29 minutes.
Its a busy grid alright.
http://trackdriver.com/blog/?p=889
Approx. 29 minutes.
Its a busy grid alright.
Thanks for the responses regarding brakes. I had checked the pad material before the weekend and it looked ok to me. I think the pads that were in it must have been made of cheese and with an hour on the track I basically ran out. I didn’t put them in as I have only had the car a few months in total. I now have some CARBONE LORRAINE RC6 Endurance which are simply epic in comparison.
Here was the damage:
So after fitting the new disks and pads I managed to find an access road to bed them in (30, 60 and 100mph stops) which was ‘interesting’ but as it was 11pm at this time there was no one about and no harm done.
As an aside, I had a problem with my transponder on the Saturday and a lovely lady from the timings team came and found me to try and help work out what the problem was. As we were chatting I came to realise that if you are racing all weekend, you can sign on and scrutineer for both races in one go! So I nipped to the office, signed on again and then got another piece of paper from the lovely scrutineers for the following day. I found out they rate all cars condition from 1 to 10. I got an 8 which is quite good by all accounts and 10 is almost never given out.
Anyway, roll on to the morning and looking forward to a lay in now I have no need for admin and the “pushing your car queue” I set the alarm for 8am. Unfortunately I forgot to tell the East Midlands Airport and was up after the first flight of the morning….
Qualifying quickly comes around and I put in a reasonable time, much better than the Saturday as I have amazing levels of retardation now thanks to having some compound on the pads.
I am still pretty slow with being 4 seconds off the pace. I have a buddy with me today as well and we watch the video with him giving me some advice on where to brake later and change my entry in to a few corners.
So in to race 1 I start, trying to keep a lid on the adrenalin and also finding the right level of aggression from the moment the lights go out. The race was pretty uneventful and I put in a reasonable performance to end up finishing higher than I started. I can see now how I am with the tail pack and matching them for pace, but having looked back on the video I can see which corners I am losing time (mostly slow speed).
I was pretty chuffed with my fastest lap and now have got the gap to the leaders down to a mere 2 seconds. I mainly did this by the obvious things of braking harder and later plus carrying more speed through the apex. I know it sounds simple but it is much harder than I thought. Confidence springs to mind and I am tipping a car in trusting it is going to make it out the other side is taking time for me to build up and learn.
The second race was more eventful and being the last race of the season I was expecting some do or die moves with the drivers knowing they have a winter to fix it. Starting further up the grid I am more aggressive on the start and keep with the pack much more. I chickened out of a “3 abreast in to Redgate” on the first lap but didn’t lose many positions and was well in the pack ready for a great race. This came to an abrupt end unfortunately going through McLean’s when I saw a spin 3 cars in front right on the exit. I naturally lifted off, got in to a slid and ended up on the grass, thankfully with the car in the same shape it started the corner with. The two cars in front of me ended up collecting the spinner and had various levels of damage, one of them retiring so it wasn’t the end of the world.
Having lost loads of positions and time I set about some “hammer time” and caught up the pack again. Interestingly another car just ahead went around Coppice and then lost their right rear wheel and other suspension bits which fortunately all seemed to miss the car. A tussle with a green Clio ensued which I eventually lost when going in to the gravel at Redgate and losing loads of time again.
Out of the gravel I had loads of vibration, but haven’t hit anything and it seems ok now. Is this just stones sitting in the wheel rim trapped by central fugal force? Or should I be looking for something else being broken?
I am pretty chuffed with the fastest lap and when I compare it on the video it is now obvious where I made up all of the time. I look back at the Roadsports tape and wonder how I could have gone so slowly! Still, there is still a 1.8s gap to the leader which needs finding and I think I know where some of it is having compared my laps to one of the leaders videos they helpfully posted online.
So here was the progress:
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GOSsc0CdPA
But I am really just kidding myself. 1.8 seconds is a very long way off being fast when you are in almost identicle cars. Still much learning to do.
Next race is the Halloween event hosted by CSCC at Brands Hatch where I am in the New Millennium on Saturday and the Tin Tops on Sunday. Expecting a bit of a pasting to be honest as the car is standard and most have had much money spent on it, but I hope to have a good race with some other slower cars and drivers like me.
Some pictures:
New sticker ready for Brands!
Here was the damage:
So after fitting the new disks and pads I managed to find an access road to bed them in (30, 60 and 100mph stops) which was ‘interesting’ but as it was 11pm at this time there was no one about and no harm done.
As an aside, I had a problem with my transponder on the Saturday and a lovely lady from the timings team came and found me to try and help work out what the problem was. As we were chatting I came to realise that if you are racing all weekend, you can sign on and scrutineer for both races in one go! So I nipped to the office, signed on again and then got another piece of paper from the lovely scrutineers for the following day. I found out they rate all cars condition from 1 to 10. I got an 8 which is quite good by all accounts and 10 is almost never given out.
Anyway, roll on to the morning and looking forward to a lay in now I have no need for admin and the “pushing your car queue” I set the alarm for 8am. Unfortunately I forgot to tell the East Midlands Airport and was up after the first flight of the morning….
Qualifying quickly comes around and I put in a reasonable time, much better than the Saturday as I have amazing levels of retardation now thanks to having some compound on the pads.
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Pole lap race 1 | 1:52.42 |
| Best lap race 1 | 1:56.60 |
| Position race 1 | 26th out of 29 |
| Pole lap race 2 | 1:52.73 |
| Second best lap race 2 | 1:56.67 |
| Position race 2 | 22nd out of 29 |
I am still pretty slow with being 4 seconds off the pace. I have a buddy with me today as well and we watch the video with him giving me some advice on where to brake later and change my entry in to a few corners.
So in to race 1 I start, trying to keep a lid on the adrenalin and also finding the right level of aggression from the moment the lights go out. The race was pretty uneventful and I put in a reasonable performance to end up finishing higher than I started. I can see now how I am with the tail pack and matching them for pace, but having looked back on the video I can see which corners I am losing time (mostly slow speed).
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Position | 22nd out of 25 |
| Fastest lap | 1:52.94 |
| My fastest lap | 1:55.09 |
I was pretty chuffed with my fastest lap and now have got the gap to the leaders down to a mere 2 seconds. I mainly did this by the obvious things of braking harder and later plus carrying more speed through the apex. I know it sounds simple but it is much harder than I thought. Confidence springs to mind and I am tipping a car in trusting it is going to make it out the other side is taking time for me to build up and learn.
The second race was more eventful and being the last race of the season I was expecting some do or die moves with the drivers knowing they have a winter to fix it. Starting further up the grid I am more aggressive on the start and keep with the pack much more. I chickened out of a “3 abreast in to Redgate” on the first lap but didn’t lose many positions and was well in the pack ready for a great race. This came to an abrupt end unfortunately going through McLean’s when I saw a spin 3 cars in front right on the exit. I naturally lifted off, got in to a slid and ended up on the grass, thankfully with the car in the same shape it started the corner with. The two cars in front of me ended up collecting the spinner and had various levels of damage, one of them retiring so it wasn’t the end of the world.
Having lost loads of positions and time I set about some “hammer time” and caught up the pack again. Interestingly another car just ahead went around Coppice and then lost their right rear wheel and other suspension bits which fortunately all seemed to miss the car. A tussle with a green Clio ensued which I eventually lost when going in to the gravel at Redgate and losing loads of time again.
Out of the gravel I had loads of vibration, but haven’t hit anything and it seems ok now. Is this just stones sitting in the wheel rim trapped by central fugal force? Or should I be looking for something else being broken?
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Position | 20th out of 25 |
| Fastest lap | 1:52.71 |
| My fastest lap | 1:54.57 |
I am pretty chuffed with the fastest lap and when I compare it on the video it is now obvious where I made up all of the time. I look back at the Roadsports tape and wonder how I could have gone so slowly! Still, there is still a 1.8s gap to the leader which needs finding and I think I know where some of it is having compared my laps to one of the leaders videos they helpfully posted online.
So here was the progress:
| What | Time |
|---|---|
| Track day best | 1:57.24 |
| Roadsports best | 1:56.64 |
| Clio 182 best | 1:54.57 |
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GOSsc0CdPA
But I am really just kidding myself. 1.8 seconds is a very long way off being fast when you are in almost identicle cars. Still much learning to do.
Next race is the Halloween event hosted by CSCC at Brands Hatch where I am in the New Millennium on Saturday and the Tin Tops on Sunday. Expecting a bit of a pasting to be honest as the car is standard and most have had much money spent on it, but I hope to have a good race with some other slower cars and drivers like me.
Some pictures:
New sticker ready for Brands!
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