Which cars and competitions do you recommend?

[Theodoreallen]

Hey,

Not sure if this is posted in the right place, if it isn't, I'm sorry :P

I used to do,a bit of kart racing when I was a lot younger and then progressed into a bit of BMW and Mini racing, but haven't really done much other than a few track days up at The Ring in the last few years. I would like to get back into competing, now I'm a bit older and have a bit more money behind me. So what competitions and cars do you recommend?

Besides Mazda MX5 racing, I'm not too fussed which car, and I have a budget of about £20,000 for car and modifications/work.

So what do you think?

[Altrezia]

www.pbmwc.co.uk

One of the closest and best value championships around Great close racing at every round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2raucV1UZiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI7ZebfgEWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2ZOqzyPTs

Edited by Altrezia on Monday 5th October 19:02

[Theodoreallen]

Altrezia said:

www.pbmwc.co.uk

One of the closest and best value championships around Great close racing at every round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2raucV1UZiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI7ZebfgEWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2ZOqzyPTs

Edited by Altrezia on Monday 5th October 19:02

That does look fun! What kind of level are the drivers?

[HustleRussell]

Caterham graduates of course

[Hammond1073]

CSCC Tin tops is worth a look.
40 minute races with a pit stop at most of the uk's best circuits.

For the money you are looking to spend, I have a Ford Focus (260 bhp) originally built by Ford Motorsport. Has been running in this series for 5 years. Yours for half your budget so plenty left to personalise

[Altrezia]

Theodoreallen said:

That does look fun! What kind of level are the drivers?

A mix - a couple of ARDS instructors, a couple of old boys who have raced forever, a few karting kiddies on the way up, and then a mix of people who either care and want to do well, or just do it for fun. Top 15 is pretty tough.

Plenty of rental cars available if you just fancy dipping a toe before buying/building a car.

We're racing at Combe this weekend coming if you're local. Come and watch

[Richair]

Another shout for CSCC here http://www.classicsportscarclub.co.uk/

It's a really well run club and they have a series for almost any type of car from the 60's onwards. The regulations are flexible and the racing close, but sensible. The mix of machinery in the paddock is always interesting and diverse.

I've done a couple of races in Tiptops this year and have had a great time; we've been made to feel very welcome by everyone. The only potential drawback for some is they don't run a championship so you just pick and choose the rounds you want. Although this can equally be viewed as a positive if like me, you can only afford/only fancy doing a few races a year.

[jonesey]

Altrezia said:

A mix - a couple of ARDS instructors, a couple of old boys who have raced forever, a few karting kiddies on the way up, and then a mix of people who either care and want to do well, or just do it for fun. Top 15 is pretty tough.

Plenty of rental cars available if you just fancy dipping a toe before buying/building a car.

We're racing at Combe this weekend coming if you're local. Come and watch

Could you give me any information regarding rental of racecars? I'm in the same boat as the OP but live abroad and would love to just dip in when i am in the UK for the fun/sport.

I don't have a significant amount of race experience - is this open to all?

[Theodoreallen]

jonesey said:

Altrezia said:

A mix - a couple of ARDS instructors, a couple of old boys who have raced forever, a few karting kiddies on the way up, and then a mix of people who either care and want to do well, or just do it for fun. Top 15 is pretty tough.

Plenty of rental cars available if you just fancy dipping a toe before buying/building a car.

We're racing at Combe this weekend coming if you're local. Come and watch

Could you give me any information regarding rental of racecars? I'm in the same boat as the OP but live abroad and would love to just dip in when i am in the UK for the fun/sport.

I don't have a significant amount of race experience - is this open to all?

I second this

[Altrezia]

Get in touch with one of the teams in the series - Gary Feakins Racing ( http://www.garyfeakinsracing.co.uk) or Graves Motorsport (not sure on the web).

I use GFR for track-side support on race weekends, and they do a great job. Unsure on the costs, but if you've got an MSA race licence, I suspect that'll be all you need.

The fact all of the cars are the same (or at least, very similar) makes for great racing.

Edited by Altrezia on Tuesday 6th October 17:38

[Hammond1073]

This might be of interest. For sale. CSCC Tin Tops eligible £9500
260 BHP

[andrewcliffe]

Alternatively you could consider single seaters and there should be plenty of cars in budget to race in Monoposto.

[RobM77]

andrewcliffe said:

Alternatively you could consider single seaters and there should be plenty of cars in budget to race in Monoposto.

I started racing in a Metro, briefly raced a Caterham and then moved to single seaters, via tests in a few different cars, and the enjoyment from driving the single seaters was the greatest of them all - no question. They're also surprisingly cheap to buy and run (provided you can survive without a Haynes Manual and active web forum advice, unlike, for example, a Mini or an MX5). The other racers are also the friendliest bunch I've met - there's very little cliqueyness and machismo in single seaters, unlike some other categories. Single seaters are also designed to be worked on regularly, so you can say goodbye to groping around in the dark underneath a car bashing your knuckles on the floor, or straining your back bending over a bonnet trying to undo a nut you can't even see - single seater mechanics is a much nicer affair, because the bodywork pops off in an instant and they're easy to raise up on stands and work on at a comfortable height.

I'd say that the only downsides are that with so many different types thrown in to race together, it's usually not as close and competitive as, for example, stock hatch, MX5 or Caterham racing; however the plus is that the cars are so much better to drive than something road based; with solid, not rubber, mounted suspension and engine; extremely low CofG, superb suspension design, low weight etc etc. The other downside is fitting in the things; Formula Fords have a huge following and, uniquely for club single seaters, they have true one make championships, but if you've got wide feet and long legs, then driving them can be very difficult indeed. The last Formula Ford based car that I drove (one of the more spacious - a '98 Van Diemen) I had to wiggle my foot free from full throttle to brake at each corner, all the while picking up bruises from the chassis rail my knees were wedged against (and trying not to think about what would happen to my knees if I crashed!). The solution to this is the modern carbon tubbed cars, if you can afford one - they're generally much bigger inside.

Just don't do what I did and put all your funds into buying and commissioning a rebuild on a car that was then banned from Monoposto a week later...

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 9th October 12:27

[andy97]

I would echo Rob's advice. I raced a couple of single seaters in Monoposto a few years ago and they were, by a long way, the cheapest cars to race and the best value speed per £ possible.

A Formula Vauxhall Junior, a Vauxhall Lotus, a F Ford Zetec or F Ford Duratec should have virtually bomb proof engines meaning that rebuild cars are negligible. I sold my FVJ and FVL for virtually what I paid for them, too, and used second hand slicks for the national F Ford and F3 teams respectively (usually one race meeting old) for really cheap racing (£10 per tyre!)

Monoposto is a good club, too.

The down side is that you actually have to be comfortable and confident in a single seater and feeling it move around beneath you. I found them tricky and saloons and sports cars are easier to drive imho.

One other possibility - dont dismiss the Clubmans Register series. Front engined "Sports/single seaters", Mallocks, Visions, and Phantoms and the like. Think shrink wrapped Caterhams on steroids with wings and slicks! Very quick cars, cheap to run and probably easier to drive than a single seater for most people.
http://www.clubmans.org.uk/

[MrOrange]

Altrezia said:

www.pbmwc.co.uk

One of the closest and best value championships around Great close racing at every round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2raucV1UZiQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI7ZebfgEWI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2ZOqzyPTs

Edited by Altrezia on Monday 5th October 19:02

Or you could consider it's up and coming big brother series - BMW 330 Challenge. Build your own from about 10-15k https://www.facebook.com/BMW330Challenge

[KarlMac]

I'm looking to enter the Sprint Series run by MLR/22b.com/GTROC next year. Looks really good and the barrier to entry is pretty low.

[RobM77]

andy97 said:

I would echo Rob's advice. I raced a couple of single seaters in Monoposto a few years ago and they were, by a long way, the cheapest cars to race and the best value speed per £ possible.

A Formula Vauxhall Junior, a Vauxhall Lotus, a F Ford Zetec or F Ford Duratec should have virtually bomb proof engines meaning that rebuild cars are negligible. I sold my FVJ and FVL for virtually what I paid for them, too, and used second hand slicks for the national F Ford and F3 teams respectively (usually one race meeting old) for really cheap racing (£10 per tyre!)

Monoposto is a good club, too.

The down side is that you actually have to be comfortable and confident in a single seater and feeling it move around beneath you. I found them tricky and saloons and sports cars are easier to drive imho.

One other possibility - dont dismiss the Clubmans Register series. Front engined "Sports/single seaters", Mallocks, Visions, and Phantoms and the like. Think shrink wrapped Caterhams on steroids with wings and slicks! Very quick cars, cheap to run and probably easier to drive than a single seater for most people.
http://www.clubmans.org.uk/

That's something I didn't cover - the state of tune of the engines. Up to and including Formula Renault, most single seaters use a standard production engine simply converted to a dry sump and mated to a racing gearbox (which to be honest save you more money than they cost compared to the standard road items). With Monoposto club regs, even if you go above FR to F3, they still mandate that you run a standard 2L fixed cam road engine. You still get people with blueprinted engines costing a lot of money to build, but it is inherently a fairer and more level playing field than you get with full racing engines. This contrasts with saloons and sports cars, which quickly get into full racing spec engines once you're much above the lower rungs. Even my Metro for example, my first ever race car, had a full race engine with different pistons, gas flowed and ported head, different cam etc. The costs echo all of this as you might imagine.

The performance difference is another thing that you mentioned and that's very true as well. If you look up the lap times online from various magazine tests of road cars (or road bikes) and compare them with the lap times from various club series, you'll notice immediately that even the slowest single seaters are ahead of pretty much everything, right up to most hypercars. Autocar did a good video a couple of years ago where Steve Sutcliffe timed a Nissan GTR and an F3 car around a streaming wet track, with him gunning the GTR but being tentative in the F3 car, and despite that, he was still a huge amount quicker in the F3 car. That said, whilst it's pretty cool to go very fast, most of my satisfaction comes from driving on the limit and racing, which you'll get in anything that you race, even a 2CV.

I agree regarding the sports racers. Sports 2000 is also worth a look.

Incidentally, if you want to have a go in any of these cars, arrive and drive is available in most categories and it's a good place to start to see if you like it or not. Most clubs can put you in touch with teams offering arrive and drive, as can many people on here. Once you build contacts it's also a bit less daunting buying and running your own car.