long-travel soft springs, very firm dampers?
Discussion
My mk1 golf GTI needs to run standard springs for the class I sprint in (standard class) but it is held back by huge amounts of roll. I'm going to change the anti-roll bar for new standard one but there isn't much else I can do. However, there is another championship that would allow uprated dampers with standard springs. What is the likely result of attempting to reduce roll with very firm dampers (presumably adjustable ones)?
Norfolkandchance said:
My mk1 golf GTI needs to run standard springs for the class I sprint in (standard class) but it is held back by huge amounts of roll. I'm going to change the anti-roll bar for new standard one but there isn't much else I can do. However, there is another championship that would allow uprated dampers with standard springs. What is the likely result of attempting to reduce roll with very firm dampers (presumably adjustable ones)?
What exactly are the rules ? What parts are you allowed to change ? Are you allowed to modify things ?Dampers will only slow down the rate of roll, for want of a better description. Depends how long or slow the bends are.
carl_w said:
Or get out of standard production and into Roadgoing?
Hi Carl. Thanks! But I'd need to change cars as my 1600 would then be in the up to 2000cc class. Anything competitive wouldn't be eligible for the classic rallies I also do. How well supported is the standard up to 2000 in aemc? Do you think a mk1 MX5 1600 would be as quick as your Saxo? Its not on paper... stevieturbo said:
Norfolkandchance said:
My mk1 golf GTI needs to run standard springs for the class I sprint in (standard class) but it is held back by huge amounts of roll. I'm going to change the anti-roll bar for new standard one but there isn't much else I can do. However, there is another championship that would allow uprated dampers with standard springs. What is the likely result of attempting to reduce roll with very firm dampers (presumably adjustable ones)?
What exactly are the rules ? What parts are you allowed to change ? Are you allowed to modify things ?Dampers will only slow down the rate of roll, for want of a better description. Depends how long or slow the bends are.
The bends are on normal circuits, generally 2nd or 3rd gear. I would have thought it lifts the rear for about 5 seconds. Below was last year, it seems to have got worse since then...
www.youtube.com/embed/SrYcBpjK90Y
Norfolkandchance said:
Hi Carl. Thanks! But I'd need to change cars as my 1600 would then be in the up to 2000cc class. Anything competitive wouldn't be eligible for the classic rallies I also do. How well supported is the standard up to 2000 in aemc? Do you think a mk1 MX5 1600 would be as quick as your Saxo? Its not on paper...
As you say, it's not on paper but I had some interesting battles with Andy Elcomb from 7Oaks in his MX-5 (down to hundredths).We're still not sure on what we're doing next year. To be competitive in standard production you need to run on Yoko AD08s which have now been out of production for over a year. We have a set we can probably get another 3-4 events out of but then what? Might get a different car or mod the Saxo and go into A4.
OTOH Paul Sales appears to be doing well in A2 in his RX8, and I believe it's running on Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas.
Norfolkandchance said:
One championship is exactly standard - can't change anything. The other is standard everything except "uprated" dampers. No definition of what "uprated" means.
The bends are on normal circuits, generally 2nd or 3rd gear. I would have thought it lifts the rear for about 5 seconds. Below was last year, it seems to have got worse since then...
www.youtube.com/embed/SrYcBpjK90Y
Can you fit additional parts ? Presumably you can change old parts with new parts ? There's little doubt new OEM springs will be stiffer than saggy old ones, just like tits.The bends are on normal circuits, generally 2nd or 3rd gear. I would have thought it lifts the rear for about 5 seconds. Below was last year, it seems to have got worse since then...
www.youtube.com/embed/SrYcBpjK90Y
If you were allowed additional parts...you could add suspension travel limiters, effectively pulling the suspension down, springs would then be sitting at a higher initial rate and with less overall travel and less roll.
carl_w said:
Norfolkandchance said:
Hi Carl. Thanks! But I'd need to change cars as my 1600 would then be in the up to 2000cc class. Anything competitive wouldn't be eligible for the classic rallies I also do. How well supported is the standard up to 2000 in aemc? Do you think a mk1 MX5 1600 would be as quick as your Saxo? Its not on paper...
As you say, it's not on paper but I had some interesting battles with Andy Elcomb from 7Oaks in his MX-5 (down to hundredths).We're still not sure on what we're doing next year. To be competitive in standard production you need to run on Yoko AD08s which have now been out of production for over a year. We have a set we can probably get another 3-4 events out of but then what? Might get a different car or mod the Saxo and go into A4.
OTOH Paul Sales appears to be doing well in A2 in his RX8, and I believe it's running on Vredestein Ultrac Sessantas.
Norfolkandchance said:
I've been thinking about this. Surely sooner or later the AD08s will all be gone and then everyone will be back on a level playing field? (ish)
Absolutely. They are no longer available in the size I use (225/40/18), but fortunately I am able to use 1b's in most rounds. Norfolkandchance said:
I've been thinking about this. Surely sooner or later the AD08s will all be gone and then everyone will be back on a level playing field? (ish)
They are like hens teeth, and Carl has done very well to find them! For smaller diameter wheels they still offer a considerable advantage.However, I think that 2016 is their last year, as they were "marked" when the tyre lists were published back in Sept. The BB will confirm of course.
Dan Friel said:
They are like hens teeth, and Carl has done very well to find them! For smaller diameter wheels they still offer a considerable advantage.
However, I think that 2016 is their last year, as they were "marked" when the tyre lists were published back in Sept. The BB will confirm of course.
I was hoping that 2015 was their last year as competitors are chasing a dwindling supply. We double drive so wear them out twice as fast. I think they were "marked" in last year's regs too.However, I think that 2016 is their last year, as they were "marked" when the tyre lists were published back in Sept. The BB will confirm of course.
Having run for several years in standard production, it seems that quite a lot of the cars are not running standing springs or dampers. They just run non adjustible dampers and spring rates of unknown poundage, normally just what are found on the car when purchased at 10+ years old! Unless the springs and dampers have factory makings on , I doubt anyone could prove they are original spec. most I have seen are covered in crud!
Thde moment you move out of standard production ( I have run iin Class A1 using my 1600cc 205 Gti and a 1600cc Eunos Mk1, and Class A2 sharing with Paul Sales in that RX8 ) you wont win anything unless you get more power, drastically.
After several seasons I do not think anyone will protest you MK1 Golf Gti if it has fresh springs & dampers as long as they are not adjustible ones or blatantly been hand built by Nitron or Ohlins!!
There have been lots of cars competing in that class running polybushes and suspicious " lumpiness " on tickover..... so i would just say fit some slightly lower and stiffer springs and fresh non-adjustible dampers, just dont take the piss....
Regarding tyres in the 1600cc class, I have had class wins on cheaapy Toyo T1R , £149 for four on ebay. Also had good results with Michelin Sport 3 . I will have no problem next year using them against the Yokos , I dont realy think they had much of an advantage from stone cold over a sprint. If they start with a bit of heat in them I think they will be a bit faster, but that should not happen in sprinting.
Good luck with your Golf!
Thde moment you move out of standard production ( I have run iin Class A1 using my 1600cc 205 Gti and a 1600cc Eunos Mk1, and Class A2 sharing with Paul Sales in that RX8 ) you wont win anything unless you get more power, drastically.
After several seasons I do not think anyone will protest you MK1 Golf Gti if it has fresh springs & dampers as long as they are not adjustible ones or blatantly been hand built by Nitron or Ohlins!!
There have been lots of cars competing in that class running polybushes and suspicious " lumpiness " on tickover..... so i would just say fit some slightly lower and stiffer springs and fresh non-adjustible dampers, just dont take the piss....
Regarding tyres in the 1600cc class, I have had class wins on cheaapy Toyo T1R , £149 for four on ebay. Also had good results with Michelin Sport 3 . I will have no problem next year using them against the Yokos , I dont realy think they had much of an advantage from stone cold over a sprint. If they start with a bit of heat in them I think they will be a bit faster, but that should not happen in sprinting.
Good luck with your Golf!
Furyblade_Lee said:
After several seasons I do not think anyone will protest you MK1 Golf Gti if it has fresh springs & dampers as long as they are not adjustible ones or blatantly been hand built by Nitron or Ohlins!!
I agree, and on an older car it would be very difficult to prove what is standard or not. Just don't start destroying track records...Furyblade_Lee said:
Regarding tyres in the 1600cc class, I have had class wins on cheaapy Toyo T1R , £149 for four on ebay. Also had good results with Michelin Sport 3 . I will have no problem next year using them against the Yokos , I dont realy think they had much of an advantage from stone cold over a sprint. If they start with a bit of heat in them I think they will be a bit faster, but that should not happen in sprinting.
For wheels of 17" and above, the Michelin Super Sport and the new Conti Sport Contact 6 are the pick, and will be close to the Yoko AD08.. in anything smaller, the Yokos will have a distinct advantage. Shame we don't have Bridgestone RE003s in Europe, having read the reviews, they would be a decent 1a tyre.Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff