Discussion
e21Mark said:
I also need to fit the posts to my crash helmet. They're not cheap either are they?
About £30... https://www.hawkemotorsport.co.uk/Store/index.php?...e21Mark said:
Well it seems that because my interior is not 100% OE I am now required to run a HANS. Can't quite get the reasoning behind it but looks like I won't be competing next weekend unless I can find £300 to buy one.
Is this the opinion of just one scrut? If you are competing in production classes and and therefore still have the interior including the lap and diag belts, there is no requirement for a harness let alone an FHR.Hi, all my interior remains except the inertia belts. However, the parcel shelf and door cards are aftermarket items.
Were this a championship round and I was actually competing, I could see the reasoning behind the class change. In truth, my car has way more interior fitted than the regs dictate, so there is certainly no weight advantage in my having aftermarket door cards. Given the spirit of the event and the lack of points being given, it seems a little churlish to make me change classes.
Whilst I am sure (well almost) HANS will prevent some injuries, I can see why some feel this is an expense too far. These added expenses, added to the weekends £350 entry fee, mean actual track time equates to about £160 a minute! (including practice!)
Were this a championship round and I was actually competing, I could see the reasoning behind the class change. In truth, my car has way more interior fitted than the regs dictate, so there is certainly no weight advantage in my having aftermarket door cards. Given the spirit of the event and the lack of points being given, it seems a little churlish to make me change classes.
Whilst I am sure (well almost) HANS will prevent some injuries, I can see why some feel this is an expense too far. These added expenses, added to the weekends £350 entry fee, mean actual track time equates to about £160 a minute! (including practice!)
andy97 said:
Tight in what respect?
When fitting on, the thinner opening really is a tight fit....obviously that isnt the wearing position, but that is annoying as it rubs the neck when putting it on. I'd say they are all like that though ?But even when in-situ, it just feels tight. I wouldnt go so far as to say it feels like it would choke, but it has discomfort, and measuring my neck circumference is less then 17"
I really would hate to feel what a medium which says it can do up to 17" would feel like. Unless mine is marked wrong and is a medium.
Not exactly easy to go and try such things for size when there is nowhere within a few hundred miles and across an ocean that might stock them.
I got this one
http://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/hans-sport-iii-dev...
The LEAT MRXPro they also sell looks a lot better and is SFI approved in the US. But as it isnt FIA approved no doubt MSA events wouldnt allow it...even though I'm not racing, competing or doing anything remotely near FIA level....in my road car.
Mansells Tash said:
stevieturbo said:
....have to say they really are uncomfortable !
I'd suggest trying different models, you shouldn't really notice a correctly fitting HANS unless there is something seriously odd about your neck and shoulders, it's like saying a harness is uncomfortable, if it fits correctly, you shouldn't be able to say that. I always wear mine and I never notice it, I've never heard another person say they're uncomfortable either.RobM77 said:
I agree about the HANS. I've used mine in 4 different cars now and I barely notice it's there. You have to swivel your head in a slightly different way, but it really is very subtle and 99% of the time I barely know it's there. I have to admit though I don't feel that way about a harness, as you suggest! I've always found harnesses uncomfortable, that gloves remove steering feedback etc etc. On that note, of all the safety devices I've used, the HANS is the least obstructive by a long long way. If you look at the data on how much of an impact they make to safety and balance that up against the superb ergonomics I think HANS is fantastic.
How could you not notice it ?It seriously restricts head movement, especially when trying to look side-side. A longer tether would probably help but it's still annoying.
Harness is no issue at all, and gloves are quite good, definitely get a good solid grip on the wheel with them
Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 29th May 23:53
I know a couple of rallyists and they both said there are some situations where the HANS has seriously restricted their ability to check their side views.
I can't help but wonder just how many people doing sprints in the UK have suffered injuries that may have been avoided thanks to HANS? Especially when there are other classes where just the OE seatbelt will suffice? Obviously the HANS is here to stay though.
I can't help but wonder just how many people doing sprints in the UK have suffered injuries that may have been avoided thanks to HANS? Especially when there are other classes where just the OE seatbelt will suffice? Obviously the HANS is here to stay though.
£300? have they come down in price that much? Have the regs changed as I was told helmets that could accept the fittings had to be returned to have them fitted and certified, it not being a diy job.
Also are none of you running HANS specific seats? I was also informed the HANS seats prevent a tilting injury in a side impact as without the "ears" your helmet can be lifted as it sits on the HANS - something the seat prevents.
My profile pic shows one of our cars that went off at the top of Eau Rouge, data recorded 17g impact. Seat bent the rails and runners and the top pushed the door open. Driver had a check over and was deemed OK. Car was repaired overnight and got 3rd & 4th in the 2 races the following day.
Also are none of you running HANS specific seats? I was also informed the HANS seats prevent a tilting injury in a side impact as without the "ears" your helmet can be lifted as it sits on the HANS - something the seat prevents.
My profile pic shows one of our cars that went off at the top of Eau Rouge, data recorded 17g impact. Seat bent the rails and runners and the top pushed the door open. Driver had a check over and was deemed OK. Car was repaired overnight and got 3rd & 4th in the 2 races the following day.
It is all silly...
Not that long ago, it was deemed we all had to have 3" harnesses, 2" wasnt enough ( I didnt now there were elephants racing...but hey ho )...now there are HANS harnesses that are 2" as sometimes 3" straps dont fit well over the HANS. Gotta be a contradiction there.
So 2" was ok after all...or are they ?
Perhaps in single seaters or race cars where movement is restricted anyway lack of head movement isnt a big deal as nothing could move anyway.
But in a saloon car it is bloody annoying.
Of course there is a small number of accidents where HANS will have obvious benefits...but they really do seem to be few compared to other dangers within racing and as you say some classes need none of this. Which really makes you wonder what they're thinking.
Either neck injuries are a concern or they arent.....They really need to make up their minds. If they are, All classes should need them, not just a select few.
As for helmets, again it's another minefield. With different ratings, different posts, different everything, then it'll all go out of date in a small number of years anyway ( strangely as will a lot of "not fit for purpose" safety gear, as if it was fit for purpose it wouldnt have such short expiry dates )
Some helmets you can DIY fit HANS posts without issue, although given how easy it would be to overtighten them and damage the helmet, that almost makes a nonsense of any use of HANS too as doubtful that would ever get noticed in scrutineering.
Older stuff needed to be factory fit and stickered. And some will come with them installed.
Not that long ago, it was deemed we all had to have 3" harnesses, 2" wasnt enough ( I didnt now there were elephants racing...but hey ho )...now there are HANS harnesses that are 2" as sometimes 3" straps dont fit well over the HANS. Gotta be a contradiction there.
So 2" was ok after all...or are they ?
Perhaps in single seaters or race cars where movement is restricted anyway lack of head movement isnt a big deal as nothing could move anyway.
But in a saloon car it is bloody annoying.
Of course there is a small number of accidents where HANS will have obvious benefits...but they really do seem to be few compared to other dangers within racing and as you say some classes need none of this. Which really makes you wonder what they're thinking.
Either neck injuries are a concern or they arent.....They really need to make up their minds. If they are, All classes should need them, not just a select few.
As for helmets, again it's another minefield. With different ratings, different posts, different everything, then it'll all go out of date in a small number of years anyway ( strangely as will a lot of "not fit for purpose" safety gear, as if it was fit for purpose it wouldnt have such short expiry dates )
Some helmets you can DIY fit HANS posts without issue, although given how easy it would be to overtighten them and damage the helmet, that almost makes a nonsense of any use of HANS too as doubtful that would ever get noticed in scrutineering.
Older stuff needed to be factory fit and stickered. And some will come with them installed.
stevieturbo said:
RobM77 said:
I agree about the HANS. I've used mine in 4 different cars now and I barely notice it's there. You have to swivel your head in a slightly different way, but it really is very subtle and 99% of the time I barely know it's there. I have to admit though I don't feel that way about a harness, as you suggest! I've always found harnesses uncomfortable, that gloves remove steering feedback etc etc. On that note, of all the safety devices I've used, the HANS is the least obstructive by a long long way. If you look at the data on how much of an impact they make to safety and balance that up against the superb ergonomics I think HANS is fantastic.
How could you not notice it ?It seriously restricts head movement, especially when trying to look side-side. A longer tether would probably help but it's still annoying.
Harness is no issue at all, and gloves are quite good, definitely get a good solid grip on the wheel with them
Edited by stevieturbo on Sunday 29th May 23:53
stevieturbo said:
RobM77 said:
I agree about the HANS. I've used mine in 4 different cars now and I barely notice it's there. You have to swivel your head in a slightly different way, but it really is very subtle and 99% of the time I barely know it's there. I have to admit though I don't feel that way about a harness, as you suggest! I've always found harnesses uncomfortable, that gloves remove steering feedback etc etc. On that note, of all the safety devices I've used, the HANS is the least obstructive by a long long way. If you look at the data on how much of an impact they make to safety and balance that up against the superb ergonomics I think HANS is fantastic.
How could you not notice it ?It seriously restricts head movement, especially when trying to look side-side. A longer tether would probably help but it's still annoying.
Harness is no issue at all, and gloves are quite good, definitely get a good solid grip on the wheel with them
My issue with gloves is that they remove feedback. I've just had 6 years away from motorsport to do trackdays and one of the best things about trackdays was driving without gloves on; I felt so much more connected. Friday was my first test back in my new racing car and gloves felt weird. The harness is great in that it holds you still so you can drive properly, so I'd always want it, but I've always found the two straps between my legs hideously uncomfortable.
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