Discussion
stevieturbo said:
Sure this happened at the roadside where the person involved in an accident had got out of the car and was sitting in the car of a passer by who stopped to help....they got the notion the person shouldnt be moved and cut the roof of that car !!!
Insane, I'd break the f
kers neck who cut the roof off !
Absolutely true, but better (!?) it was a POLICE CAR!Insane, I'd break the f
kers neck who cut the roof off !http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3445284/Fir...
On wearing a FHR or not, my car is in the pre-1970 groups that means I don't have to have one, and probably never.
But I'm a medic, and my reading convinces me they are useful, so I started to wear one this year.
As said above, once in place and correctly adjusted I don't notice it, except that I feel even more securely fastened in my seat.
But I used to be able to put on my helmet in the car, even though it's a small, two door saloon.
That's impossible now, as I cannot attach the retainers to the helmet in the mirror!
I've learnt, as many seem to do, to assemble the helmet to the HANS and then put both in together, but with small doors, a roll cage and door bars, getting in and out without catching the HANS on the door frame is a tight fit!
After last weekend at Crystal Palace (see my post) when I had to do this many more times than I would at a race meeting, I can do it more easily. I'm sure that getting used to an FHR is a matter of practice, so keep trying, guys!
"Risk analysis" isn't just about how likely is something to happen, but also about what will be the result. It's common to stub your toe, and painful, but we don't wear rubber boots in the bathroom, as we recover quickly. Severe neck injury is rare, but the devastating effect of spinal cord damage, making a previously well, active and hard working person totally dependant on the care of others makes it worthwhile taking precautions.
John
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:24
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:25
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:31
tapkaJohnD said:
Absolutely true, but better (!?) it was a POLICE CAR!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3445284/Fir...
On wearing a FHR or not, my car is in the pre-1970 groups that means I don't have to have one, and probably never.
But I'm a medic, and my reading convinces me they are useful, so I started to wear one this year.
As said above, once in place and correctly adjusted I don't notice it, except that I feel even more securely fastened in my seat.
But I used to be able to put on my helmet in the car, even though it's a small, two door saloon.
That's impossible now, as I cannot attach the retainers to the helmet in the mirror!
I've learnt, as many seem to do, to assemble the helmet to the HANS and then put both in together, but with small doors, a roll cage and door bars, getting in and out without catching the HANS on the door frame is a tight fit!
After last weekend at Crystal Palace (see my post) when I had to do this many more times than I would at a race meeting, I can do it more easily. I'm sure that getting used to an FHR is a matter of practice, so keep trying, guys!
"Risk analysis" isn't just about how likely is something to happen, but also about what will be the result. It's common to stub your toe, and painful, but we don't wear rubber boots in the bathroom, as we recover quickly. Severe neck injury is rare, but the devastating effect of spinal cord damage, making a previously well, active and hard working person totally dependant on the care of others makes it worthwhile taking precautions.
John
You can buy various quick release tether fittings, although I havent found the standard ones too difficult to use.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3445284/Fir...
On wearing a FHR or not, my car is in the pre-1970 groups that means I don't have to have one, and probably never.
But I'm a medic, and my reading convinces me they are useful, so I started to wear one this year.
As said above, once in place and correctly adjusted I don't notice it, except that I feel even more securely fastened in my seat.
But I used to be able to put on my helmet in the car, even though it's a small, two door saloon.
That's impossible now, as I cannot attach the retainers to the helmet in the mirror!
I've learnt, as many seem to do, to assemble the helmet to the HANS and then put both in together, but with small doors, a roll cage and door bars, getting in and out without catching the HANS on the door frame is a tight fit!
After last weekend at Crystal Palace (see my post) when I had to do this many more times than I would at a race meeting, I can do it more easily. I'm sure that getting used to an FHR is a matter of practice, so keep trying, guys!
"Risk analysis" isn't just about how likely is something to happen, but also about what will be the result. It's common to stub your toe, and painful, but we don't wear rubber boots in the bathroom, as we recover quickly. Severe neck injury is rare, but the devastating effect of spinal cord damage, making a previously well, active and hard working person totally dependant on the care of others makes it worthwhile taking precautions.
John
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:24
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:25
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Wednesday 1st June 12:31
I've a big saloon car so even fitting the tethers to the helmet whilst in car isnt that difficult. Dont really need to see them to do this, can feel what needs done ( gloves off mind....I've done it with gloves on but it's a much slower process. )
I will at some point buy a longer tether, just didnt expect standard one to be so bad.
But...even despite a big car, big doors and cage deliberately made with a bigger access point ( ie not the typical X bars ) I dont think I would physically be able to get out of the car quickly at all with the HANS/tethers connected. So whilst HANS may improve safety in some areas...clearly it negatively impacts it in others...without buying more crap to make it easier to remove.
I'd imagine other cars with poorer access, deeper seats, full X bars and vertical door bars etc....it might even be impossible to get in/out with a full HANS connected up ?
Personally I attach the tethers at the start of a day's testing or racing and leave them on. I only separate the helmet and HANS for safe storage.
I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
Also bear in mind the safety requirement in the Blue Book (see below) about evacuation times - can you do it? N.B. Its less for single seater racing cars.
5.19.2.
The vehicle occupant(s), seated in their normal position, wearing normal equipment, with seat belts fastened and the steering wheel in place, must be able to evacuate the cockpit in a maximum of 7 seconds.
5.3.7.
If a single seater, the maximum time for a driver to get in or out of the vehicle must not exceed 5 seconds.
5.19.2.
The vehicle occupant(s), seated in their normal position, wearing normal equipment, with seat belts fastened and the steering wheel in place, must be able to evacuate the cockpit in a maximum of 7 seconds.
5.3.7.
If a single seater, the maximum time for a driver to get in or out of the vehicle must not exceed 5 seconds.
Edited by Keithyboy on Friday 3rd June 10:41
RobM77 said:
Personally I attach the tethers at the start of a day's testing or racing and leave them on. I only separate the helmet and HANS for safe storage.
I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
I'd guess you're a single seater where you just need to climb up to get out, no obstructions ?I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
A Saloon car with a comprehensive cage and deep bucket seats has a pretty tight exit path.
stevieturbo said:
RobM77 said:
Personally I attach the tethers at the start of a day's testing or racing and leave them on. I only separate the helmet and HANS for safe storage.
I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
I'd guess you're a single seater where you just need to climb up to get out, no obstructions ?I must confess I've never had any difficult getting in and out of the car with the HANS on - you just undo the belts, knock the shoulder straps off and just hop out?! I'm not even sure I'd know mine was on me to be honest. If you are slowed down getting out though I'd have thought on balance it's better to have the HANS than not - in a modern racing car I'd have thought that injury from sudden deceleration in an accident is more of a risk than fire.
A Saloon car with a comprehensive cage and deep bucket seats has a pretty tight exit path.
Yes, in recent years I have been driving an open single seater. Before that I raced a Caterham with a full cage and a tight entry/exit and didn't have any problems, but I may have just been lucky. I've yet to use my HANS in a closed tin top.My co-driver proved the value of a HANS on Friday crashing at over 60mph into the Armco just before Old Hairpin at Donington. A quick check over by circuit medics and we were both into the spare car in the afternoon.
As someone already said, the HANS and helmet get paired at the start of the weekend and not separated again until hometime.
Chris.
As someone already said, the HANS and helmet get paired at the start of the weekend and not separated again until hometime.
Chris.
stevieturbo said:
I'd guess you're a single seater where you just need to climb up to get out, no obstructions ?
A Saloon car with a comprehensive cage and deep bucket seats has a pretty tight exit path.
I haven't found any difference with and without the HANS....it is the helmet that make the only difference. And yes it is a saloon car with a VERY comprehensive roll cage and deep seat, or a coupe kit car a much smaller entrance AND similar roll cage and seat. In case of the kit car, the helmet helps stop me banging my head...really must get some padding!A Saloon car with a comprehensive cage and deep bucket seats has a pretty tight exit path.
greenamex2 said:
I haven't found any difference with and without the HANS....it is the helmet that make the only difference. And yes it is a saloon car with a VERY comprehensive roll cage and deep seat, or a coupe kit car a much smaller entrance AND similar roll cage and seat. In case of the kit car, the helmet helps stop me banging my head...really must get some padding!
Interestingly enough...is it not another rule there is supposed to be proper padding anywhere helmet/arms etc can make contact with the cage ?Near sure I read it somewhere.....certainly rarely enforced
I rallied in a mk1 Escort a few months back and couldn't get in with the helmet/HANS on (out was OK thankfully) so I wqas fixing the HANS under the belts first then putting helmet on and connecting the straps to the helmet after.
It's quite quick and easy to do once you're practiced a bit.
It's quite quick and easy to do once you're practiced a bit.
stevieturbo said:
greenamex2 said:
I haven't found any difference with and without the HANS....it is the helmet that make the only difference. And yes it is a saloon car with a VERY comprehensive roll cage and deep seat, or a coupe kit car a much smaller entrance AND similar roll cage and seat. In case of the kit car, the helmet helps stop me banging my head...really must get some padding!
Interestingly enough...is it not another rule there is supposed to be proper padding anywhere helmet/arms etc can make contact with the cage ?Near sure I read it somewhere.....certainly rarely enforced
How much it is enforced, no idea. The race car always had it so never got pulled up on that one.
88racing said:
My co-driver proved the value of a HANS on Friday crashing at over 60mph into the Armco just before Old Hairpin at Donington. A quick check over by circuit medics and we were both into the spare car in the afternoon.
As someone already said, the HANS and helmet get paired at the start of the weekend and not separated again until hometime.
Chris.
Chris,As someone already said, the HANS and helmet get paired at the start of the weekend and not separated again until hometime.
Chris.
I hope your co-driver will at least get a new tether for his HANS. It has done its job, maybe saved his neck, and will have stretched in the process.
Like harness and seat belts, you should only use tethers once.
Keithyboy,
Seven seconds is a LONG time! Yes, I can get out in less, if necessary by falling on my back! HANS and Helmet wowld make that very safe and almost comfortable, but I don't recommened it. CSCC forty minute races include compulsory pit stops, for a driver change or when you get out, close the door, and get back in. I'm getting better at it!
John
Edited by tapkaJohnD on Thursday 9th June 10:22
tapkaJohnD said:
Chris,
I hope your co-driver will at least get a new tether for his HANS. It has done its job, maybe saved his neck, and will have stretched in the process.
Like harness and seat belts, you should only use tethers once.
Yes, he was looking at how to change it afterwards.I hope your co-driver will at least get a new tether for his HANS. It has done its job, maybe saved his neck, and will have stretched in the process.
Like harness and seat belts, you should only use tethers once.
I bought my helmet 3 years ago with HANS posts fitted and was informed by scrutineers on sunday that it didn't have necessary hologram sticker needed under new rules this year , so I need to see if supplier can retro fit stickers or get a new helmet , I was not aware of rule change and grateful for scrutineers for pointing out a safety issue .
ridgey said:
I bought my helmet 3 years ago with HANS posts fitted and was informed by scrutineers on sunday that it didn't have necessary hologram sticker needed under new rules this year , so I need to see if supplier can retro fit stickers or get a new helmet , I was not aware of rule change and grateful for scrutineers for pointing out a safety issue .
Oddly at my first event this year, the scrute made me buy some silly blue MSA sticker for £2 something to do with the HANS.Mind you....he seemed quite selective as to who he was selling them to ? as other friends werent forced to buy them ?
No idea if that's same thing you're referring to. My helmet and HANS were both brand new !
ridgey said:
I bought my helmet 3 years ago with HANS posts fitted and was informed by scrutineers on sunday that it didn't have necessary hologram sticker needed under new rules this year , so I need to see if supplier can retro fit stickers or get a new helmet , I was not aware of rule change and grateful for scrutineers for pointing out a safety issue .
My co-drivers ran into this for the Creventic 24 Hours of Silverstone this year. The FIA PDF is here:http://www.fia.com/technical-list-ndeg25-recognise...
...but I note that in the latest MSA News there was a comment regarding HANS holograms.
jeffw said:
You have to have an MSA sticker on a helmet and if you don't it will cost you £2 for one. Standard stuff and happens once in the lifetime of the helmet. It just means it has been inspected by the first scrutineer to see it and has been approved.
Some friends have been using same helmet and hans for years...they have no sticker and it has never been mentioned to them.88racing said:
My co-drivers ran into this for the Creventic 24 Hours of Silverstone this year. The FIA PDF is here:
http://www.fia.com/technical-list-ndeg25-recognise...
...but I note that in the latest MSA News there was a comment regarding HANS holograms.
What's particularly odd is that SAH2010 helmets are not allowed to be used with a HANS etc by the FIA even though the H in SAH specifically refers to the fact that they were homologated by Snell for use with frontal head restraints! http://www.fia.com/technical-list-ndeg25-recognise...
...but I note that in the latest MSA News there was a comment regarding HANS holograms.
http://www.ogracing.com/blog/2010/10/what-is-the-s...
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