MSA Circuit racing Extinguishers

MSA Circuit racing Extinguishers

Author
Discussion

BusLane

Original Poster:

45 posts

96 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
What are the regs regarding service intervals?

This is for tiny super light weight bottle in a single seater something like this, Lifeline Zero Zero Fire Extinguisher 1.5Kg Electrical.

It was service in 02/14 according to my records, the label they attached does not have an expiry date only when it was serviced.
I am not sure if it has special foam due to it's size. I recall Demon Tweeks saying something along those lines but if I call them I'm certain they will say it needs doing.

I have book but I am juggling so many things at the moment. Just about managed to get the car ready to shake down yesterday, now it needs a few more jobs doing before racing next weekend..

I even put it for sale 3 days ago due to lack of time.
I thought it quicker to post than try and read through all that small print.

frodo_monkey

670 posts

195 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
Contents just have to be 'in the green' for MSA racing, service date is irrelevant (for the purposes of scrutineering - clearly a prudent chap will get theirs serviced to avoid disappointment!).

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
Interestingly a scrutineer told me that he needed to see my extinguisher in date.
Bert

andye30m3

3,452 posts

253 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
As frodo says doesn't need to be indate just needs to be in the green on the gauge for MSA events

BusLane

Original Poster:

45 posts

96 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
Thank you.

It's 2 years 2 month since it had a full service.

I made some calls to Demon Tweeks and they said they won't touch it? it is past its 2 year service date, new regs?
It been serviced periodically, and has 6 years left of the year of manufacture So is less than half way through it's service life and in good condition.

When I asked is that MSA or FIA, I understand UK events may only require it is in working order, he said he can not answer that..
I wondered if that is commissioned based sales training not fact. It would not be the first time, they've made some bold statement about something that is not completely accurate so...

I spoke to a different supplier who said they would not have an issue servicing it, but services "should" be every two years.
So it's been sent via Fed ex, it may have to be sent to Germany on a quick turn around.

Bit disappointed as the people I called first, serviced it the last two times and have this on record.
It's 4 years old and in good condition and was about £900 new as a kit. I explained I was due to race soon and they did not even call the manufacture or who ever does the service to ask...

Apparently 10 Years is the the normal service life of the system.
My fault for not checking sooner as I thought it was last year, but it still seems a bit ott in this case.

I will hopefully know more tomorrow.

I would happily run it as is for this event anyway, if the green gauge proves good enough.

Edited by BusLane on Thursday 28th April 22:06


Edited by BusLane on Thursday 28th April 22:07

BusLane

Original Poster:

45 posts

96 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
(K) Competitor Safety
Date of implementation: 1 January 2015
3. A fire extinguisher/extinguishing system must be carried on
all vehicles, the minimum requirement being that the system be
charged with one of the permitted extinguishants and be operable
by the driver whilst normally seated either by manual operation or
by a mechanically/electrically assisted triggering system.
It is recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in
accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24
months, whichever is sooner.
Reason: To provide competitors with guidance on the
frequency that extinguishers are required to be serviced.
Every two years is the minimum FIA requirement but we give
provision for Manufacturers to specify a shorter period if they
wish. It is known that existing manufacturers recommend a
two year service period.

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
according to an email from Merlin re Lifeline. They cannot miss 2x2 year service intervals, so 4 years, not 2.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Thursday 28th April 2016
quotequote all
BusLane said:
(K) Competitor Safety
Date of implementation: 1 January 2015
3. A fire extinguisher/extinguishing system must be carried on
all vehicles, the minimum requirement being that the system be
charged with one of the permitted extinguishants and be operable
by the driver whilst normally seated either by manual operation or
by a mechanically/electrically assisted triggering system.
It is recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in
accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24
months, whichever is sooner.
Reason: To provide competitors with guidance on the
frequency that extinguishers are required to be serviced.
Every two years is the minimum FIA requirement but we give
provision for Manufacturers to specify a shorter period if they
wish. It is known that existing manufacturers recommend a
two year service period.
Recommended but not mandatory

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
andy97 said:
Recommended but not mandatory
I thought it was mandatory, so if I turn up at the next race (Castle Combe club race) with my extinguisher being 4 weeks past its 2 yr due (first) service they will pass it at Scrutineering?

greenamex2

509 posts

254 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
rallycross said:
I thought it was mandatory, so if I turn up at the next race (Castle Combe club race) with my extinguisher being 4 weeks past its 2 yr due (first) service they will pass it at Scrutineering?
It isn't mandatory.

You are UNLIKELY to be failed, but ultimately the scrutineer can fail a car for reasons not in the Blue Book on safety grounds (seen it done) so it isn't 100% guaranteed.

evilmiyagi

127 posts

108 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Best thing to advise is contact the scrutineer listed in your championship regs.

They will be able to confirm 100% whether you will be able to compete or not.

andy97

4,691 posts

221 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Scrutineers do an important job but they don't know everything and they aren't always consistent. That's human beings for you.

I had an issue about a year ago where they wanted to fail my car because it didn't have a hand brake. I said it didn't need one and that cars like single seaters, Radicals, Ginetta G20s etc didn't have them so why should I. I was told that the BB mandated 2 brake circuits.

I asked to see the Chief Scrutineer and explained that my car had2 brake circuits but didn't have a hand brake, and I asked to be shown where the regs mandated a hand brake. He apologised and I was passed.

So, back to the OP, if. It is advisable to have an extinguisher serviced every 2 years then that's what it is. And not mandatory. And if the extinguisher is in the green and is in a general condition which indicates that it will work ok (I'd not corroded etc) then it should pass even if 2 years and 2 months past its last service, and to be honest I can't remember when my extinguisher was last serviced (better check) but it's not been an issue.

The one place where it will be an issue is if you race at Spa because their local regs will mandate that it's date.

Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
A slight side track, but something I think is important ( after having been in the unlucky position to have to set off the extinguisher)

more important than the extinguisher being in date imho...


and that is to every year disconnect the bottle and blow the lines out with compressed air.


when i had to set mine off the nozzels quickly blocked with years of dust, and grp dust as soon as it got wet with the extinguishant...


Since then Ive seen this happen to others too..

tapkaJohnD

1,930 posts

203 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
Last time my bottle went out of date, it was only a tenner more to buy a new one than have it serviced.
So I have a spare attached to the battery trolley!

John

rallycross

12,747 posts

236 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
For those in the SE I have used Cam Auto Dev for my Lifeline extinguisher servicing they are a good price and quick

http://www.camauto.com/lifeline-fire/lifeline-fire...
https://www.facebook.com/CAM-AUTO-Developments-LTD...


andy rob

652 posts

221 months

Friday 29th April 2016
quotequote all
the manufactures say xxx and nobody else can service there extinguishers and if hasnt been service for xxxx or some body has looked at then its scrap ........... what a load of rubbish, just a monoply game, the guage is there for a reason, but having said that every year at the beginning of the season I get my local first extinguisgher company to service everthing I have, business ones/motorhome/race cars for not a lot of money.I carry an a extra hand held device in my race cars because the chance of the plumbed in one actually putting out a fire are slim in my view

ShakeyJake188

108 posts

129 months

Thursday 5th May 2016
quotequote all
Take it to a local place that service industrial type fire extinguishers to avoid getting stung.
Cost me £5 to get one serviced for a race I had at Spa. It's also nice to know it will work when you need it!

greenamex2

509 posts

254 months

Thursday 5th May 2016
quotequote all
rallycross said:
For those in the SE I have used Cam Auto Dev for my Lifeline extinguisher servicing they are a good price and quick

http://www.camauto.com/lifeline-fire/lifeline-fire...
https://www.facebook.com/CAM-AUTO-Developments-LTD...
Err....I have been spending a fortune for years for postage etc for servicing....CAM are just round the corner to me!!!! Thanks for the link.

Edited by greenamex2 on Thursday 5th May 12:27

GC8

19,910 posts

189 months

Thursday 5th May 2016
quotequote all
There is a member here who can service extinguishers. I cant recall the company name, although I do have it written down somewhere.

Very competitive price for an SPA 4l dual chamber bottle.

BertBert

18,955 posts

210 months

Thursday 5th May 2016
quotequote all
Lanan?
GC8 said:
There is a member here who can service extinguishers. I cant recall the company name, although I do have it written down somewhere.

Very competitive price for an SPA 4l dual chamber bottle.