Threat to forest rallying in Wales

[tapkaJohnD]

The MSA has had an enormous increase quoted by for the charges for using forest stages fro rallying in Wales, so high that they haven't been able to agree to them, and rallying this year is threatened.
See open letter from MSA Chief Exec: https://www.msauk.or...Chief-Executive

The Welsh Assembly has a petitioning system like Westminster, so please look at it and sign it if you wish: https://www.assembly...?PetitionID=943

John

[Trev450]

Link to the petition doesn't seem to be working.

[velocemitch]

There's a couple of threads about this already, one in the 'other motorsport section' and one in general Gassing. Doesn't harm to push it again though, most people can't see past WRGB.

I can't get the link to the petition to work ??

[nlldavies]

Petition link - https://www.assembly.wales/en/gethome/e-petitions/...

Rally4Wales link - https://www.facebook.com/rallyingmeansbusiness/

"Natural Resources Wales’ proposed pricing structure from June 2016 onwards would double the current cost, and is completely at odds with new contracts in place for the same purposes with Forestry Commission's in England and Scotland.

Whilst NRW are seeking to double the current cost – England and Scotland are raising the cost (from the previous contract) by just 0.7%."

[Trev450]

Signed and circulated to like-minded colleagues.

[stevieturbo]

Now the MSA know how we all feel about being forced to spend money because of stupid fking rules idiots in the MSA introduce !

Except we have no choice but to pay up !

Now they're running crying because someone is asking them to spend more.

[velocemitch]

It's not the MSA paying its the bloody competitors you don't think the MSA pays these fees do you?. The competitors pay the organisers who pay MSA who only then pay for the forest miles.

[coppice]

But the MSA has managed single handedly to kill off rallying's appeal to many by requiring spectators to be penned into enclosures , thus destroying its DNA overnight.

[Drumroll]

If you actually new anything about rallying in the UK you would realise the MSA has had little option but to look at spectator access to stages.

[coppice]

At least i can bloody spell 'knew'. ..Anyway - I watched rallies for many years , and marshalled for years too. So I have been in the odd stage or fifty. The tragedy is that rallying's USP has now been removed irrevocably. I assume - and do correct me if I am mistaken- by the MSA

[Drumroll]

But you miss the point, if the MSA had not reacted to the Scottish review into spectator safety then there would have been no motorsport in the UK. You could not have the position where the MSA in England allowed something to happen (regarding safety) that didn't happen in Scotland. Lawyers would have a field day.

I am surprised that someone who used to marshal on rallies would not agree that something needed to be done about spectators on stage rallies

[velocemitch]

I think the MSA have made quite a few questionable decisions over the past few years in respect of Rallying, but they were in something of a Cleft Stick regarding the 'safety Review' and are now facing another really tough challenge with the Welsh Forestry thing.
I'm sure they are not entirely blameless, but ultimately its not their fault.

[coppice]

My concern is the apparent policy of risk avoidance and not risk management. I had a similar thing where MSA simply decreed that spectating would be prohibited at the corner on my local circuit where most overtaking happens.I wrote to MSA and received a less than helpful reply - the risk could have been effectively managed but far simpler just to say no. And we wonder why we get no spectators at motor sport ...

[tapkaJohnD]

Thanks, nlldavies, for correcting the link.

JOhn

[Drumroll]

But risk management IS setting out where spectators can go. Just because you (coppice) felt that spectators where safe at a particular corner doesn't mean they were.

[coppice]

Sorry - you may have missed my point ; to clarify , I acknowledged there was risk and I felt it was reasonable to manage the risk by taking some basic steps to reduce it . (eg extension of some debris fencing , reduction in access area). MSA' approach was a binary one - no access at all. No accident to spectators had ever occurred there and whilst one was foreseeable the steps taken threw out the baby with the bathwater.

In this country we lose about ten people a year in equestrian events, twice that in both fishing and climbing - and they carry on much as ever I suspect. But with our sport we seem sometimes to be hell bent on destroying its essence in response to every incident or perceived risk of one.

Why is this important? Rallying relies on support from public and competitors alike. Remove the public and why on earth should the wider public put up with the inconvenience if it can't even benefit from the event? An example of this was where I used to live- right next to a forest rally stage. Not too popular with neighbours but I flew the flag for rallying and argued strongly that we shouldn't oppose it- forests are for more than horses and walkers . My patience was severely stretched when, whilst walking to watch on a public foot path a marshal tried to stop me doing something both lawful and safe.He didn't succeed....

[Drumroll]

But the other sports you mention have not killed 5 spectators in the last 10 years and severely injured at least a dozen other spectators. Participants dieing doing the sport they love is one thing, killing people who are spectating is something very different.

[coppice]

Maybe so - but I am not sure it is that different actually.A guy going pike fishing doesn't expect not to come home , nor did my late friend whose gentle morning ride ended with her dying after being thrown because of a pheasant spooking her horse.

But often it is the mode of death which gets the reaction and not the bare numbers- 9/11 was undoubtedly hideous and killed 3000 people. Since then over 150 ,000 US citizens have been killed. But not by Al Qa'eda or the like but by gun toting fellow Americans ....

[Drumroll]

I'm sorry but a spectator dying IS totally different from a competitor.

Several years ago I was cautioned and had to give a statement after a co-driver was killed on a rally I was attending. That was nothing compared to the 2+ hours I was cautioned and interviewed after the serious accident and then the fatal(s) I attended on the JCR in 2014 (and compared to a lot who attended those incidents 2+ hours was next to nothing) I still don't know if I have to attend the coroners court and several of the organisers still don't know if they will face criminal prosecutions. So don't tell me that spectators dying is no different to competitors or someone just doing the sport they enjoy. It is not.